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If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: steve...
Date: December 02, 2020 05:26PM
That won't negate official, public investigations to expose the crimes they committed, correct?

I think there wiil also be a flood investigative reporting, documentaries and tell-all books about all the shenanigans happening in his administration.




Northern California Coast
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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: Speedy
Date: December 02, 2020 05:29PM
It will pretty much negate federal investigations but not state. Most of their crimes are financial and New York is very good at chasing those down,



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: Janit
Date: December 02, 2020 06:52PM
Quote
Speedy
It will pretty much negate federal investigations but not state. Most of their crimes are financial and New York is very good at chasing those down,

NY is already chomping at the bit, and I expect the the post-inauguration months will be very interesting.
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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: December 02, 2020 06:55PM
It invites a lawsuit to establish whether he could legally do that.

...Also, implicit in the pardon would be the admission that he committed crimes. This would invite some deep dives into the culpability of his associates, some of whom may be overlooked when he issues the many many MANY pardons he's likely to provide to his criminal associates. They might not like that.



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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 02, 2020 07:22PM
Is an investigation by the AG of DC federal? Or state? Because ivanka is under investigation in DC for Trump hotel grifting during her fathers' inaugural. I'm sure he would like to pardon his daughter for making money for him, illegally.
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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: December 03, 2020 12:02PM
It won't negate Congressional investigations.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: December 04, 2020 12:52AM




In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: If President Chaos pardons himself, his kids and others...
Posted by: Janit
Date: December 04, 2020 08:30PM
It might not be so simple for Trump to pardon his children and Giuliani

[www.washingtonpost.com]


Quote

.....

In fact, based on the Framers’ original understanding of the pardon authority, the better reading is that, while the pardon power grants the president expansive authority, that power is not unlimited. Most importantly, the Framers would have understood that pardons must be issued for specific crimes. They were not intended to be broad grants of immunity, get-out-of-jail-free cards bestowed by presidential grace.

The Supreme Court has repeatedly affirmed that the scope of the pardon clause should be interpreted in light of its meaning at the time of the founding. This originalist methodology means looking to 18th-century English law. As the court said in an 1855 case, “when the words to grant pardons were used in the constitution, they conveyed to the mind the authority as exercised by the English crown, or by its representatives in the colonies. At that time both Englishmen and Americans attached the same meaning to the word pardon.”

That meaning included what might be called a “specificity requirement” — a pardon would be deemed valid only if it identified the specific offenses to which it applied. As William Blackstone, the leading authority on English law at the time, declared: “A pardon of all felonies will not pardon a conviction.” Instead, the offense “must be particularly mentioned.” Blanket pardons, in other words, were invalid.

Notably, the British king once possessed broader pardon powers, which were curbed starting in the late 17th century. The precipitating event involved King Charles II, who, facing financial difficulties, sent a secret emissary to France to collude with the French king. In return for a large cash payment, Charles agreed to a deal: England would join France in invading the Netherlands. When the details of this collusion leaked, Parliament responded in anger. Although it could not punish Charles directly, Parliament impeached and then imprisoned the emissary. In response, the king pardoned the emissary. When it was all over, several new constraints on the king’s pardon authority were established.

Since English law informs our own understanding of the pardon power, there is a strong argument that the specificity requirement is part of our Constitution and serves as a constraint on the president’s authority. That would not prevent the president from issuing pardons to anyone for any reason, but it does require that each pardoned crime be listed.

In the case of his family and personal lawyer, such a list might prove embarrassing to the president — and edifying to the public. In this way, specificity raises the political costs of issuing such pardons. It also reduces the pardon’s effectiveness. Should a relevant offense be left off the list, the pardon’s recipient would be vulnerable to prosecution.

The Supreme Court has never ruled on the specificity requirement, and the question of the validity of any blanket pardon by Trump would come up only if a federal prosecutor seeks to indict a pardon recipient who raises the pardon as a barrier to prosecution.

But if the issue were to arise, there is a significant possibility that a court, dominated by self-identified originalists, would invalidate the use of blanket pardons. This possibility should make Trump pause before offering such pardons to friends and family. But it also leaves him in a bind. Should he attempt to specify each and every federal crime committed by his children or lawyer? Or is that a gift too costly even for Trump to consider?
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