Next step: Impeach the traitor.



Vice President Mike Pence sent House Speaker Nancy Pelosi a letter saying he would not invoke the 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump from power as the House was taking its first votes on a resolution that urges Pence to do so.

'I do not believe that such a course of action is in the best interest of our Nation or consistent with the Constitution,' Pence said of the Democrat-led effort. 'Last week, I did not yield to pressure to exert beyond my constitutional authority to determine the outcome of the election, and I will not now yield to efforts in the House of Representatives to play political games at a time so serious in the life of our Nation.'

Pence's letter came as the House was voting to begin debate on the 25th Amendment resolution, which can't actually force the vice president's hand.

The first vote was a straight party line vote, 219-206, with the House majority of Democrats successful.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2021 07:46PM by Steve G..

You can, at once, be both totally right and totally wrong. That is what I see in Pence's letter.

While I agree with him in theory, that the 25th should only be invoked for the most serious of matters and -- as he says -- based in medical facts, the reality is that to get this guy to submit to a medical exam at this point would be nigh impossible.

And while his point about avoiding further actions that would further divide the country is well taken, if Dump's behavior doesn't merit impeachment or removal via the 25th, then what does??? Sometimes you just have to do the right thing, regardless of if it'll yield the results you want (for example, the first impeachment).

Actions have consequences, and his letter seems to completely ignore the fact that his boss' actions are what set this whole thing in motion in the first place. I'm guessing his recent little tête-à-tête with his boss was to decide what position for him to take in this letter. He was personally threatened by the insurrectionists, who were calling for him to be hanged until dead; you would think he'd have understood what his constitutional responsibilities were under the circumstances, but apparently not.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2021 08:02PM by PeterB.

The latest rumors (see Talking Points Memo) is that there will be somewhere between 10 and 25 Republicans voting for impeachment in the House. Liz Cheney stated publicly that she will vote for impeachment along with two other Republicans. There is also Mitch McConnell's tacit support for the impeachment. If half a dozen Republican senators say they will vote to convict, that could be the start of what Adam Schiff refers to as an "earthquake" in the senate.

We live in interesting times.

PeterB: Check out MedPage for an op ed suggesting that Trump is showing loss of function due to Covid-19. The writer reminds us of some of Trump's weird behavior since his diagnosis.

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Ca Bob
PeterB: Check out MedPage for an op ed suggesting that Trump is showing loss of function due to Covid-19. The writer reminds us of some of Trump's weird behavior since his diagnosis.

Oh, I don't doubt it... the problem is the Goldwater Rule and the lack of any sort of current medical diagnosis or even an examination. In that sense, Pence is correct ... but again, also totally wrong.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

......always wondered what it is like to be totally.....spineless.......

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I reject your reality and substitute my own!

It doesn't matter what he thinks. He's just a stop in the process.

She is Sun Tzu all over this.

Will Pence be a fair haired Republican candidate? Respected by his brothers? I have never heard the Senate say anything about him.

It's a complete cop-out to assert that using the 25th should be based in medical facts without actually attempting to ascertain those facts through an emergency medical assessment, which could have, conveniently, been done by invoking the amendment. Pence's pious "time to heal" and "continue to do my part to work in good faith" comments are enough to turn your stomach; this guy participated in the election denial delusion that led to the riots.

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Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2021 08:45PM by Marc Anthony.

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Marc Anthony
It's a complete cop-out to assert that using the 25th should be based in medical facts without actually attempting to ascertain those facts through an emergency medical assessment, which could have, conveniently, been done by invoking the amendment. Pence's pious "time to heal" and "continue to do my part to work in good faith" comments are enough to turn your stomach; this guy participated in the election denial delusion that led to the riots.

Oh, I don't disagree with any of that either. Pence is playing the company line (assuming the company is OrangeDumpCo). The problem: who has the power to compel the POTUS into an emergency medical assessment? You seem to think it's Pence, but the 25th says nothing about that. It only says that the VP can declare that the POTUS is "unable to discharge the powers and duties of his office", and it's debatable whether that's true in Dump's case. It's not so much that he's necessarily "unable" to discharge the powers and duties, so much as that he's unwilling. That, to me, is why impeachment seems more appropriate than the 25th. If he'd have invoked the 25th, then we would have had a back-and-forth where someone would have to issue some sort of writ to compel Dump into a medical assessment, and then of course Dump would fight back, deny that he was "unable" (as would be his right), etc. Simply put, the law isn't there for all that, which is why Pelosi was trying to get something established way back when, before this whole mess happened.

And frankly, speaking of stomachs being turned, Pence's frequent invocation of the Bible and God is what really turns mine. Freedom of religion also means freedom FROM religion.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/12/2021 09:02PM by PeterB.

I would think the presidency would be significantly hobbled with even an attempt at the 25th.

If we're going to govern by analogy, then a stab in the back can't heal until the knife is removed. Checkmate!

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Acer
If we're going to govern by analogy, then a stab in the back can't heal until the knife is removed. Checkmate!

Except that sometimes removing the knife is not the right move to save the patient.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB

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Acer
If we're going to govern by analogy, then a stab in the back can't heal until the knife is removed. Checkmate!

Except that sometimes removing the knife is not the right move to save the patient.

Really? They leave it in sometimes? That would make it hard to shop for shirts.

I think it's nearly impossible to think they would find a physical defect that could be, with any certainty, pinpointed as the cause for his behavior. So I think Pence is right about that.

I also think he is right that the Democrats are going for max political points, in addition to doing what's right for the country. I don't think he really wants to help them score extra points, and I understand that.

Lastly, I think going through with the 25th right now could cause a serious outburst of violence. Trump deserved to be thrown out, and straight into jail that night, but it may not be the least destructive route, and I actually think he would love to see people get hurt. I agree impeachment is probably the best route to take. He'll be in a lot weaker position as that happens.

He is trying to spinelessly walk the tightrope of not aggravating either side so he can try to run in 2024.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

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Filliam H. Muffman
He is trying to spinelessly walk the tightrope of not aggravating either side so he can try to run in 2024.

Don't worry, it will come back to haunt him in 2024 ... history will not be kind to those who supported the orange piece of feces.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB

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Filliam H. Muffman
He is trying to spinelessly walk the tightrope of not aggravating either side so he can try to run in 2024.

Don't worry, it will come back to haunt him in 2024 ... history will not be kind to those who supported the orange piece of feces.

Americans have the shortest memory span of any people on earth.

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RgrF

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PeterB

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Filliam H. Muffman
He is trying to spinelessly walk the tightrope of not aggravating either side so he can try to run in 2024.

Don't worry, it will come back to haunt him in 2024 ... history will not be kind to those who supported the orange piece of feces.

Americans have the shortest memory span of any people on earth.

True, but they also respond very well to visual stimuli ... and the videos of what happened on 1/6 aren't going anywhere...

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)