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Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 02, 2021 03:15PM
But he says his proposal would go to eleven!! (dollars an hour)


rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2021 03:15PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 02, 2021 03:27PM
I'd be inclined to take it, as a show of good faith. $15 an hour probably sounds pretty rich (!) in West Virginia, and my understanding is this only applies to Federal jobs anyway.

And then if/when the Repubs all vote against whatever Covid package gets hammered out, Biden can get rid of this fantasy of bipartisanship with the current GOP for once and for all.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 02, 2021 03:38PM
The $15/hr minimum wage proposed in the covid relief bill would apply to all jobs nationwide that are subject to the minimum wage. The racist and sexist rules that exempt farm workers and tipped employees would continue.

CORRECTION (per pdq - thanks!): the proposed bill would phase out the lower tipped employee minimum by 2027. If you're a seasonal farm worker, sorry Charlie, er, Carlos.


rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2021 03:52PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 02, 2021 03:49PM
Quote
rjmacs
The $15/hr minimum wage proposed in the covid relief bill would apply to all jobs nationwide that are subject to the minimum wage. The racist and sexist rules that exempt farm workers and tipped employees would continue.

Sorry, my bad. I stand corrected.

In fact,

Quote

The proposed bill would also raise the tipped minimum wage and youth minimum wage, by phasing both out by 2027.

I'm still inclined, however, to not let perfect be the enemy of good. It's $7.25 now, and was last increased over a decade ago (2009) following law that was passed in 2007. That's a record long lapse.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: February 02, 2021 03:52PM
Quote
rjmacs
The $15/hr minimum wage proposed in the covid relief bill would apply to all jobs nationwide that are subject to the minimum wage. The racist and sexist rules that exempt farm workers and tipped employees would continue.
And 'Seasonal workers' outside of migrant farm workers. I did that for a summer in the 70's. Earned 50 cents less than minimum wage.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 02, 2021 04:06PM
When originally passed the minimum wage should have been tied to some sort of benchmark like Social Security or an annual national inflation barometer. Had it been today the minimum would hover somewhere around $22-23/hr and these troglodytes are spitting nonsense about $15 or less.

If they had tied it to executive compensation levels it would probably be around $175/hr.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 02, 2021 04:08PM
If you get $11 now, it will be another decade until they address it again. So be sure $11 is what you want.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 02, 2021 04:16PM
Any amt should be tethered to an inflation barometer.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Ted King
Date: February 02, 2021 04:17PM
Quote
RgrF
Any amt should be tethered to an inflation barometer.

agree smiley


e pluribus unum
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Buzz
Date: February 02, 2021 05:23PM
They really oughta just tie it to a regional Cost of Living Index, within reasonable limitations. You could buy the whole of Looneyville, WV for the price of one NYC home. Not that the disparity is justified, but Manchin does have a valid point.... I think the disconnect is adversely affected by the disparity in population relative to the cost of living; the more peeps ya get in one place, the more the price of everything seems to go up. Heck, $11 in Looneyville probably has more worth than $15 in the Big Apple.
==
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: hal
Date: February 02, 2021 05:38PM
If they DO attach it to an index and Manhattan gets a $20/hr min and WV gets $8/hr - how happy will his constituents be then?
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 02, 2021 05:40PM
The states are free to set their minimums above the federal. The federal rate is then a floor. Maybe the $15 floor is too high a floor for every state. But is there a state in the union where $7.25 an hour is not an insult?

Really odd how dirt-poor WV's representation is so worried about too high a minimum wage, and just about every other remotely liberal policy. Coal and Steel were all union shops back in the day--they'd never settle for no raise for 12 years even for the guys sweeping the floors. Are only the rich allowed to vote there?



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2021 05:45PM by Acer.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 02, 2021 05:46PM
If this is the only bottleneck, let's do it.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Pam
Date: February 02, 2021 05:47PM
Incrementalism is racist, sexist, and xenophobic. If min wage had kept up it'd be $24. So $15 is a cut. Manchin is testing his power. That could come back to bite his rear end.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: hal
Date: February 02, 2021 05:50PM
Quote
Acer
Really odd how dirt-poor WV's representation is so worried about too high a minimum wage, and just about every other remotely liberal policy. Coal and Steel were all union shops back in the day--they'd never settle for no raise for 12 years even for the guys sweeping the floors. Are only the rich allowed to vote there?

I imagine these days when there is talk of raising the min wage in poorer states, the employed say 'YAY - more money for us!'

But employers tisk, tisk about yes, there will be higher paying jobs, but there will be many fewer of them.

The unemployed just wanna a @#$%& job - they want ANYTHING that pays more than $0/hr so I can see them being against a high min wage.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 02, 2021 05:52PM
[www.epi.org]

The federal minimum wage is meant to be a national floor to prevent poverty and do what states and localities refuse to do to protect the most vulnerable workers. It is nearly always southern states that refuse to raise the minimum wage and racism is the reason. A regional approach just allows them to continue this.

The last time we had a decent min wage, 1968, thousands of people were lifted out of poverty.

High cost cities will have to pay what their markets require to get workers. Generally that's over the federal minimum.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 02, 2021 06:33PM
Quote
Buzz
They really oughta just tie it to a regional Cost of Living Index, within reasonable limitations. You could buy the whole of Looneyville, WV for the price of one NYC home. Not that the disparity is justified, but Manchin does have a valid point.... I think the disconnect is adversely affected by the disparity in population relative to the cost of living; the more peeps ya get in one place, the more the price of everything seems to go up. Heck, $11 in Looneyville probably has more worth than $15 in the Big Apple.
==

Correct, and the federal agencies that deal in wages for federal grants already ascribe these minimums (and maximums) to eligibility requirements. So, they understand this discrepancy. A possible solution would be an across the board percentage increase. Because even 15 around here don't mean jack.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 02, 2021 06:53PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
Buzz
They really oughta just tie it to a regional Cost of Living Index, within reasonable limitations. You could buy the whole of Looneyville, WV for the price of one NYC home. Not that the disparity is justified, but Manchin does have a valid point.... I think the disconnect is adversely affected by the disparity in population relative to the cost of living; the more peeps ya get in one place, the more the price of everything seems to go up. Heck, $11 in Looneyville probably has more worth than $15 in the Big Apple.
==

Correct, and the federal agencies that deal in wages for federal grants already ascribe these minimums (and maximums) to eligibility requirements. So, they understand this discrepancy. A possible solution would be an across the board percentage increase. Because even 15 around here don't mean jack.


No.
There's really a misunderstanding of what/who the federal wage is for.
Please see my comment above.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 02, 2021 07:55PM
That Hill article is short on reasoning, including why $15 is too much. Maybe Joe thinks his constituency is better off fighting for coal jobs.

Now, if Manchin is saying the relief bill should focus solely on Covid and not the general poverty index I won’t disagree. In my perfect world Congress never combines unrelated legislation issues and just stays in session 24/7 and hits one issue after another, considered on the merits separately.

Omnibus bills? Pork bills? AMATEUR HOUR. Bring in pros and get @#$%& DONE.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 03, 2021 08:06AM
Quote
deckeda
Now, if Manchin is saying the relief bill should focus solely on Covid and not the general poverty index I won’t disagree. In my perfect world Congress never combines unrelated legislation issues and just stays in session 24/7 and hits one issue after another, considered on the merits separately.

Agreed. But that perfect world is one where Republicans don’t routinely filibuster every bill.

Which is not the world we live in.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: February 03, 2021 06:20PM
$15 is too much for a Federal minimum wage. Federal needs to be the bottom dollar that someone who lives in the lowest cost of living area needs to stay out of poverty. $10-$11 is probably right around there.

I'd say set it at $10 starting next year and put it in law to increase by CPI every year. States and localities can decide on their own if they want to go over that.


C(-)ris
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Throwback Thursday Signature:




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2021 06:20PM by C(-)ris.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: bfd
Date: February 03, 2021 11:19PM
Work is work. The way we value it is ridiculous. Yes, it costs more to be a professional than a manual laborer. But which worker is worth more? Which life is worth more? When we get past the notion that this work has greater value than that work, and this life is worth more than that life we'll have made a major breakthrough. But don't hold your breath. The elites and the gazillionaires will fight like hell to keep the status quo. Just look how they're weaponizing the weak-minded and inbred among us right now.


Who makes up our minimum-wage workers? [www.bls.gov]

Might be surprising…
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 03, 2021 11:30PM
Some of those weak-minded reside among us.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Sam3
Date: February 04, 2021 06:17AM
How about we do away with the tipping industry and pay tipped service workers a living wage? The idea of a tip was to thank a worker for EXCEPTIONALLY good service. Now from a customer's view a tip pretty much mandatory, not a choice. It's even automatically built into some restaurant bills.


The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 04, 2021 08:55AM
Quote
C(-)ris
$15 is too much for a Federal minimum wage. Federal needs to be the bottom dollar that someone who lives in the lowest cost of living area needs to stay out of poverty. $10-$11 is probably right around there.

Cite? Or is this just your personal assessment?


rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 04, 2021 01:13PM
Quote
Sam3
How about we do away with the tipping industry and pay tipped service workers a living wage? The idea of a tip was to thank a worker for EXCEPTIONALLY good service. Now from a customer's view a tip pretty much mandatory, not a choice. It's even automatically built into some restaurant bills.

Yes! Tips as compensation is absurd, needs to go.
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Re: Feel Bad News: Manchin undercuts Biden on $15/hr minimum wage
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 04, 2021 01:52PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Sam3
How about we do away with the tipping industry and pay tipped service workers a living wage? The idea of a tip was to thank a worker for EXCEPTIONALLY good service. Now from a customer's view a tip pretty much mandatory, not a choice. It's even automatically built into some restaurant bills.

Yes! Tips as compensation is absurd, needs to go.

Absurd, racist, and sexist! A trifecta of American ingenuity.


rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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