advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 16, 2021 08:32AM
[www.houstonchronicle.com]

The problem is extreme under investment in power grid infrastructure. Because upgrades are expensive, they cut into profits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2021 08:51AM by Lemon Drop.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 16, 2021 08:45AM
I tried to make sense of this short item about Texas energy prices “changing to meet high demand” in the recent cold snap.

Quote

As a result, the Public Utility Commission of Texas held an emergency meeting on Monday where officials introduced an order that would adjust energy prices. The order said in part, "Energy prices should reflect scarcity of the supply. If customer load is being shed, scarcity is at its maximum, and the market price for the energy needed to serve that load should also be at its highest."

My translation of this is that at this moment of highest demand, energy prices will be jacked up to consumers.

Which is the “magic” of the free market. You know, supply and demand. Okay.

But rarely has so much verbal jujitsu been exercised to obscure the fact that energy producers want to cash in and raise prices right now.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 16, 2021 09:10AM
Consumers in states with deregulated electricity markets pay more for that power amd their providers have more technical problems.

Deregulation does not guarantee competition, but you can count on market abuses. (See 2008 financial crisis)

We never seem to learn this.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Rolando
Date: February 16, 2021 09:14AM
We started having "rolling" blackouts Monday morning, longer and more often. Since Monday afternoon the power was off more than on. First 10 min on, 50 off, then 6 min on, 54 off. Last night, they went to 3 min or less on. 95% OFF..

Went to bed in the dark, woke up around 6am today, no power. We are old school using our oven as a heater WHILE WE ARE AWAKE (the old house is drafty enough to provide fresh air). Thank GOD for gas stoves!

Have the faucets dripping to prevent freezing.

Everyone is blaming the local Energy company. This is statewide, and mandate from the State Electrical board.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 16, 2021 09:25AM
There is going to be a rush on generators, portables at first, but whole house in a few weeks.

If I had some available cash, I'd buy Generac Holdings (GNRC). They should have an excellent year.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 16, 2021 10:27AM
Quote
pdq
I tried to make sense of this short item about Texas energy prices “changing to meet high demand” in the recent cold snap.

Quote

As a result, the Public Utility Commission of Texas held an emergency meeting on Monday where officials introduced an order that would adjust energy prices. The order said in part, "Energy prices should reflect scarcity of the supply. If customer load is being shed, scarcity is at its maximum, and the market price for the energy needed to serve that load should also be at its highest."

My translation of this is that at this moment of highest demand, energy prices will be jacked up to consumers.

Which is the “magic” of the free market. You know, supply and demand. Okay.

But rarely has so much verbal jujitsu been exercised to obscure the fact that energy producers want to cash in and raise prices right now.

I read that article from KVUE as well. Their 'reporting' has language so twisted, it could rival a Coney island pretzel. Looks like certain Texas media will do anything to conceal the truth.

"My free enterprises freedoms' at work.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: numbered
Date: February 16, 2021 10:49AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Consumers in states with deregulated electricity markets pay more for that power amd their providers have more technical problems.

This is what Enron did in California 20 years ago. Dereg allowed them to 'ship' power out of state and back in (which of course is silly, it is just electrons) and charge a price an order higher.

Anyway, this emergency is something because CalISO (the agency providing unified power management for the state) issued a warning last night to conserve in Cali because of the problems in the midwest...

State's electric grid operator urges conservation
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 16, 2021 11:29AM
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now - it makes no sense to try to make basic universal services profitable. They used to be socialized, and they should be again.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 16, 2021 01:02PM
Quote
rjmacs
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now - it makes no sense to try to make basic universal services profitable. They used to be socialized, and they should be again.

You are confusing 'regulated' with 'socialized'. It's two much different things
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: JoeH
Date: February 16, 2021 01:43PM
Quote
Steve G.
Quote
rjmacs
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now - it makes no sense to try to make basic universal services profitable. They used to be socialized, and they should be again.

You are confusing 'regulated' with 'socialized'. It's two much different things

Well, it was basically the same argument used by the ones pushing for deregulation starting in the '80s and '90s, regulation as a form of socialism and we can't have that! They got others to climb on board with "free market" argumnents that were equally bogus, and also used the argument that the free market would be better than "regulatory capture". Never once made arguments for fixing problems with regulatory capture, that might have required some politicians to grow a backbone.

So out of that we got Enron, and so many other problems. And for those of us who didn't have "regulatory capture" issues, we lost those protections.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 16, 2021 01:58PM
Our electrical infrastructure suffers from our lack of leadership in this area since the 1950s.

It's absurd.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: hal
Date: February 16, 2021 02:30PM
Wouldn't it be amazing if the important infrastructure was built with the needs of the country in mind instead of corporate profit? Fear of socialism/communism is a real problem. Clearly the best way to manage a large country is some kind of capitalist/socialist hybrid.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 16, 2021 02:45PM
Quote
hal
Wouldn't it be amazing if the important infrastructure was built with the needs of the country in mind instead of corporate profit? Fear of socialism/communism is a real problem. Clearly the best way to manage a large country is some kind of capitalist/socialist hybrid.

regulation is NOT socialism
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 16, 2021 02:51PM
Quote
Steve G.
Quote
rjmacs
I've said it before, and I'll say it again now - it makes no sense to try to make basic universal services profitable. They used to be socialized, and they should be again.

You are confusing 'regulated' with 'socialized'. It's two much different things

Not really all that different, when you look under the hood. You can argue that these "regulated" corporations were operating in the private sector, but it's not really true when you scratch the surface.

Public utilities were generally constituted by government action, subsidized by public money, and accountable to public bodies. Their governance was explicitly chartered to be in the public interest, with heavy restrictions on compensation, limits on rates and fees established to benefit the public good, and service and quality standards defined by public agencies. They were often financially backed by public monies, and granted the power to issue bonds that were equivalent to municipal bonds.

For all practical purposes, they were quasi-governmental agencies that operated much more like a public transit system than a profit-making private venture. Socialism means markets that are regulated to serve the public good, not private owners and investors.

Perhaps you're thinking of communism?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 16, 2021 03:14PM
So they'll have their investigation I suppose, to uncover the faults in the system and vulnerabilities. To the extent something meaningful is learned, I suspect it'll be related to Tejas typically not having to contend with ice and snow like this.

That raises questions of risk vs reward, and I don't know that something approaching full(er) uptime would be practical IF the problem is unique to weather there. If the power was only out a few hours none of this would be an issue.

Today I learned that all our company's network drives are down. HQ is in Houston. Don't know if the servers are privately maintained, outsourced, or simply contracted out to a standard vendor, but if it's not on my laptop, I can't work on it this week.

It's south Florida I don't understand. Doesn't make sense that the expectation there is for residents to invest in a generator, for hurricane season.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 16, 2021 04:59PM
Quote
rjmacs

Perhaps you're thinking of communism?

No, I know exactly what I am talking about. you are not correct.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: bfd
Date: February 16, 2021 05:29PM
The infrastructure in the west - as it probably is elsewhere in the US - is aging and crumbling. Not the least bit robust. The system itself hangs on by a thread, and all it takes is a little push and the whole house of cards comes tumbling down.

Once a portion of the system goes down, the rest can't hold it together. While billions of dollars are made selling power to the masses, it doesn't appear that much of it ever goes back into solidifying the system. Investors make a great profit while the rest of us get these dangerous power outages every time there's a hiccup in the system (which is now happening with greater frequency than ever these days).

The PoCos whine about the unfairness of blaming them for such an extreme act of nature, but shouldn't their systems be hardened against such acts? And then, why aren't they?

Could it be that deregulation of utilities led us to this point? Sometimes regulations are helpful, particularly where basic necessities like food, water, shelter, and power/heat are involved in the discussion.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 16, 2021 07:08PM
Quote
deckeda
So they'll have their investigation I suppose, to uncover the faults in the system and vulnerabilities. To the extent something meaningful is learned, I suspect it'll be related to Tejas typically not having to contend with ice and snow like this.

That raises questions of risk vs reward, and I don't know that something approaching full(er) uptime would be practical IF the problem is unique to weather there.
If the power was only out a few hours none of this would be an issue.

Today I learned that all our company's network drives are down. HQ is in Houston. Don't know if the servers are privately maintained, outsourced, or simply contracted out to a standard vendor, but if it's not on my laptop, I can't work on it this week.

It's south Florida I don't understand. Doesn't make sense that the expectation there is for residents to invest in a generator, for hurricane season.

Yep, how much are utilities (& their customers) willing to spend to fully cover weather events that spike demand at least two and probably three standard deviations from the norm for that time of the year?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 16, 2021 07:20PM
Chris Hayes doing an excellent segment on this tonight.

Good summary from a Texas Tribune reporter

3 problems here:

1. Slavish devotion to markets
Private utility companies failed to prepare and invest
2. Stubborn independence, esp. from federal govt
Texas has its own grid.
3. Unshakable belief that Texas is awesome
There are other places that do it better. Learn something. .
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 16, 2021 10:34PM
"Let's pull a Ukraine...Biden can tell Abbott if he wants federal relief he has to investigate Don Jr!"
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 17, 2021 11:08AM
Quote
Steve G.
Quote
rjmacs

Perhaps you're thinking of communism?

No, I know exactly what I am talking about. you are not correct.

Weak-sauce response, if you ask me. I had more to say than this, but apparently you had no response to the substance of my post.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2021 11:11AM by rjmacs.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 18, 2021 11:03AM
Quote
Bill in NC
Yep, how much are utilities (& their customers) willing to spend to fully cover weather events that spike demand at least two and probably three standard deviations from the norm for that time of the year?

That’s why we have an interconnected grid. Except for Texas.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Energy deregulation in Texas reaches its predicted disaster. Well the most recent one anyway
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 18, 2021 03:28PM
Quote
Bill in NC

Yep, how much are utilities (& their customers) willing to spend to fully cover weather events that spike demand at least two and probably three standard deviations from the norm for that time of the year?

A similar event occurred in TX 10 years ago and the utility took nothing away from it. When does a deviation become the norm? With climate change a real thing and weather pattern changes there may be no such thing as a deviation in the future.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 110
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020