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Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: samintx
Date: February 23, 2021 07:45AM
Tells Jeep to remove Cherokee from the Jeep name. Isn’t this getting a little too much or am I insensitive?
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 23, 2021 08:06AM
There are likely thousands of products that incorporate Native American names, and there are literally thousands of locations across the U.S. that have Native American names.

Companies and product names derived from indigenous peoples (list not exclusively American)

Place names of Native American origin in the United States
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 23, 2021 08:23AM
They can replace the name with: Jeep Redneck or Jeep Cracker.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: mattkime
Date: February 23, 2021 08:26AM
How would you feel if it was called the Jeep Samintx? Would you want some say in the matter?



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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: February 23, 2021 08:43AM
Quote
samintx
Tells Jeep to remove Cherokee from the Jeep name. Isn’t this getting a little too much or am I insensitive?


One perspective: Are they getting a check every time Jeep uses this name? Did Jeep ever ask the tribe for permission for this commercial use of the name? Does the tribe object?

If the answers are no, no, and yes, then stop using it. Easy. It should not be so hard for white people to show some respect.

The tribe doesn't want financial compensation, they want their sovereign name respected. And it seems like that's the least anybody could do.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 23, 2021 08:43AM
Unfortunately, I think the guy is right.

The standard test I (and others) use in this situation is thinking about how it might look if the company brought out a new car called the Jeep Jew.

I think you have to be careful when naming things after heritage/ethnicity.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 23, 2021 08:46AM
I'd say the A**hole is a good name, as most people who own one, drive like that.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 23, 2021 09:16AM
Quote
pdq
I think you have to be careful when naming things after heritage/ethnicity.

agree smiley

Quote
pdq
The standard test I (and others) use in this situation is thinking about how it might look if the company brought out a new car called the Jeep Jew.

I think this is a specious analogy; an over generalization that ignores the specific, relevant factors.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 23, 2021 09:45AM
Jeep LQC (low quality construction) works better.
(also contains the magic 'Q' designation for those special Jeepsters attracted to such whistles.)
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 23, 2021 10:08AM
In corporate American circles, the 'owner' of a 'brand' or 'name' needs to defend it or they lose the rights to such name.

In this case, the 'CEO' of the 'Cherokee' name is (re)taking ownership.

Jeep is going to lose the argument that they came up with the name first.

So the question is : what next?

Chrysler can work with the Cherokee Nation and see about compensation.

Or they can oblige the owner and stop using the name that they 'borrowed'.

I think this is a perfect discussion in modern-day America - who 'owns' such iconic names and images? Seems to me, if someone is making $$ off that name, the owner(s) should be compensated at the very least.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: February 23, 2021 10:15AM
The Aztecs would have really been upset if they had ever seen the Pontiac named after them.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: sekker
Date: February 23, 2021 10:18AM
Quote
Ombligo
The Aztecs would have really been upset if they had ever seen the Pontiac named after them.

Agreed. Anyone want to stake claim to the 'Gremlin'?!
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Ted King
Date: February 23, 2021 10:45AM
Questions about cultural appropriation are tricky. We are a pluralistic society that has appropriated cultural elements of many cultures to make a mutt culture. But I think that there are unique features of black American and native American culture that should be especially respected because of the history of brutal repression of those peoples and their cultures if a substantial number of black Americans and native Americans object to the use of those cultural elements in particular circumstances and settings. But there are probably elements from many other cultures that are held in special regard by people who identify with those cultures that should also be respected. It's just a considerate thing to do.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2021 10:47AM by Ted King.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: samintx
Date: February 23, 2021 10:55AM
smiley-laughing001
Quote
Speedy
They can replace the name with: Jeep Redneck or Jeep Cracker.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: btfc
Date: February 23, 2021 10:57AM
“The Aztecs would have really been upset if they had ever seen the Pontiac named after them.”



As would Chief Pontiac.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: samintx
Date: February 23, 2021 10:59AM
Quote
sekker
In corporate American circles, the 'owner' of a 'brand' or 'name' needs to defend it or they lose the rights to such name.

In this case, the 'CEO' of the 'Cherokee' name is (re)taking ownership.

Jeep is going to lose the argument that they came up with the name first.

So the question is : what next?

Chrysler can work with the Cherokee Nation and see about compensation.

Or they can oblige the owner and stop using the name that they 'borrowed'.

I think this is a perfect discussion in modern-day America - who 'owns' such iconic names and images? Seems to me, if someone is making $$ off that name, the owner(s) should be compensated at the very least.

I don’t think the name means dollars. The name separates it from another model. Could very well be called ONE. TWO. OR THREE.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: February 23, 2021 11:08AM
I've always thought that Atlanta should change its name to The Atlanta Hebrews. All the fans could wear funny hats, paste-on side curls, big noses with elastic strings and chant 'Oy Oy Oy' whenever their side strikes out.

----- also

Some fans of Tottenham Hotspur, a rival team based in north London, despite pleas from Jewish groups refer to themselves as “Yids” or “Yiddos” — a derogatory term referring to Jewish people. The phrase is repeated in some chants and songs from Chelsea fans.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: February 23, 2021 11:20AM
I think you got it right the second time.
Quote
samintx
Tells Jeep to remove Cherokee from the Jeep name. Isn’t this getting a little too much or am I insensitive?
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 23, 2021 11:37AM
If the name had been intended to mock1 or degrade a tribe/people, then it would definitely be an insult.

But the overwhelming majority of uses of Native American names and words are to acknowledge, honor and/or link to their culture, history and capabilities2.

1See Chief Wahoo

2See AH-64 Apache helicopter
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 23, 2021 11:41AM
Golden rule works here. Do for others as you would have them do for you.
Call people what they want to called. Let them tell you how they want their name used for things that are not them. It's just courtesy. Works for native peoples, works for gender, works for race. Our languages have infinite combinations, we can come up with another name for anything.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: February 23, 2021 12:08PM
Sounds like Indian Motorcycles will be next on the chopping block. Or have they went bankrupt again?



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 23, 2021 12:45PM
Quote
DeusxMac
If the name had been intended to mock1 or degrade a tribe/people, then it would definitely be an insult.

But the overwhelming majority of uses of Native American names and words are to acknowledge, honor and/or link to their culture, history and capabilities2.

1See Chief Wahoo

2See AH-64 Apache helicopter

I agree it’s appropriate in that context. Cities, towns, street names also. But products-services are not within that context, even if Jeep’s intentions have always been good. It becomes a de-personification in that case, a commoditization of a culture.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 23, 2021 01:23PM
Quote
DeusxMac
If the name had been intended to mock1 or degrade a tribe/people, then it would definitely be an insult.

But the overwhelming majority of uses of Native American names and words are to acknowledge, honor and/or link to their culture, history and capabilities2.

1See Chief Wahoo

2See AH-64 Apache helicopter

Just use demonyms that reflect your company's ownership and/or employees.

When a Cherokee child performs a web search to learn more about their heritage and history, why should the first page of results be populated with automobile references?

Tell me how having your ethnicity associated with an SUV feels like honoring or acknowledging of your people's history and culture. Please.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: btfc
Date: February 23, 2021 01:26PM
Learned from relationships:

If I think that we don’t have a problem, but you think we have a problem, then guess what, we have a problem!


The Chief of Cherokee Nation thinks that we have a problem, so guess what?
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 23, 2021 01:34PM
Quote
btfc
Learned from relationships:

If I think that we don’t have a problem, but you think we have a problem, then guess what, we have a problem!


The Chief of Cherokee Nation thinks that we have a problem, so guess what?

agree smiley



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: February 23, 2021 01:57PM
The peoples, tribes, and nations of indigenous America are probably the most dismissed segment of non-White populations in this country in 2021, so i say give those folks what they desire. With the caveat that perhaps some amount of sharing in the profits could be more advantageous than striking the name entirely.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 23, 2021 02:02PM
Jeep Seminole...that tribe (at least the one in Florida) is happy to license its name.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 23, 2021 02:05PM
Quote
Ombligo
The Aztecs would have really been upset if they had ever seen the Pontiac named after them.

Although not nearly as upset as people who actually owned what may be the least stylish car GM ever produced. Maybe the whole Pontiac line will need to be renamed?
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 23, 2021 02:07PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Jeep Seminole...that tribe (at least the one in Florida) is happy to license its name.

Not to just anyone. Florida State and the Seminole Tribe of Florida have worked together on the use of the name, images, and cultural materials to ensure that the university is respectful in its appropriation. This includes the establishment of a scholarship program for members of the tribe.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: February 23, 2021 03:53PM
Quote
RgrF
Maybe the whole Pontiac line will need to be renamed?

That would have to be posthumous/postmortem then. The mark was discontinued over a decade ago.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 23, 2021 04:07PM
The mark was discontinued over a decade ago.

That's right, it went just after Oldsmobile. Olds 98 convertible - my ride when I was an 18 year old.

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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Ted King
Date: February 23, 2021 04:11PM
Quote
RgrF
The mark was discontinued over a decade ago.

That's right, it went just after Oldsmobile. Olds 98 convertible - my ride when I was an 18 year old.


What kind of mileage did you get?
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 23, 2021 04:39PM
Never checked, gas was 24-28¢ gal. Mileage was never an object, that ride was my Datemobile.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2021 04:40PM by RgrF.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 23, 2021 04:41PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Bill in NC
Jeep Seminole...that tribe (at least the one in Florida) is happy to license its name.

Not to just anyone. Florida State and the Seminole Tribe of Florida have worked together on the use of the name, images, and cultural materials to ensure that the university is respectful in its appropriation. This includes the establishment of a scholarship program for members of the tribe.

For a few million bucks I'm sure the tribe would find it "respectful in its appropriation."
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Ted King
Date: February 23, 2021 04:46PM
Quote
RgrF
Never checked, gas was 24-28¢ gal. Mileage was never an object, that ride was my Datemobile.

My 18 year old ride was a '59 Ford with a 352 and a huge 4 barrel carb. I think my mileage was close to single digits because I had a heavy foot. But money was tight for me, so I had to limit my range.

Cool cruiser. I'm sure the girls liked it.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 23, 2021 06:38PM
Quote
RgrF
The mark was discontinued over a decade ago.

That's right, it went just after Oldsmobile. Olds 98 convertible - my ride when I was an 18 year old.


I had a ‘56 Olds 98 with every option. It was a four door hardtop so not as cool as a convertible. My dates loved the power operated radio - a foot switch on the floor changed stations. I liked the air bags in order to raise and lower the rear of the vehicle, especially when towing. I wish I still had it, ultra blue metal flake paint, full moon hubcaps and all. I paid $150 for it and sold it for $75 when I went away to college (dad said I couldn’t keep it in the driveway over the winter and there was no parking for students on campus,)



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: February 24, 2021 09:58AM
Quote
Bill in NC
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Bill in NC
Jeep Seminole...that tribe (at least the one in Florida) is happy to license its name.

Not to just anyone. Florida State and the Seminole Tribe of Florida have worked together on the use of the name, images, and cultural materials to ensure that the university is respectful in its appropriation. This includes the establishment of a scholarship program for members of the tribe.

For a few million bucks I'm sure the tribe would find it "respectful in its appropriation."

That's a very cynical attitude, but I guess it reflects a certain set of values.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: $tevie
Date: February 24, 2021 09:09PM
Ridding ourselves of indigenous American branding and logos is going to be a tough adjustment for us. I think about all the teams that will need to change their names and it is kind of breathtaking. And expensive. Same for corporations. But it has to be done. Hopefully it can get to the point where everyone tries to work together to resolve this stuff instead of arguing about it.

I had a friend who HATED St Patrick's Day because he resented the idea that all the Irish are drunken idiots. You couldn't say he didn't have the right to feel that way.



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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 24, 2021 10:00PM
I had a friend who HATED St Patrick's Day because he resented the idea that all the Irish are drunken idiots. You couldn't say he didn't have the right to feel that way.

I grew up in Boston and have a hard time arguing with that particular stereotype.
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Re: Chief of Cherokee nation objects
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: February 25, 2021 03:49PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Bill in NC
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Bill in NC
Jeep Seminole...that tribe (at least the one in Florida) is happy to license its name.

Not to just anyone. Florida State and the Seminole Tribe of Florida have worked together on the use of the name, images, and cultural materials to ensure that the university is respectful in its appropriation. This includes the establishment of a scholarship program for members of the tribe.

For a few million bucks I'm sure the tribe would find it "respectful in its appropriation."

That's a very cynical attitude, but I guess it reflects a certain set of values.

Welcome to America...everything's for sale...at the right price.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2021 03:49PM by Bill in NC.
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