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"Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Ted King
Date: March 03, 2021 04:08PM
[www.politico.com]

Quote

Sens. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.) and Debbie Stabenow (D-Mich.) on Monday will introduce a bill that would spend $8 billion to bring clean energy manufacturing and recycling to former fossil fuel sites and help transition workers to jobs in the clean energy sector.

The details: The bipartisan bill, which is co-sponsored by Republican Sen. Steve Daines of Montana, expands the advanced energy manufacturing tax credit (often referred to as 48c for its section of the tax code) to attract clean energy manufacturing and recycling companies to areas with high unemployment. The bill includes a special $4 billion carve-out for companies willing to set up operations in communities where coal mines or coal power plants have closed, according to a fact sheet released by the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. The bill would also allow heavy industry to use the credit to reduce their own emissions.

“The downturn of the coal industry has left many Americans without the good-paying jobs they once relied on and, more often than not, a lack of new opportunity," said Manchin, who chairs the Energy Committee, in a statement. "I believe that tax credits to help incentivize the transition to a cleaner energy future should be targeted to drive reinvestment in the communities who are the most impacted by that transition.

The politics: Drawing Republican support is likely to be crucial for the bill, and Daines' support could help its chance.

“This bipartisan bill will support jobs and increase investment in coal and other energy producing communities in Montana to ensure they continue playing a part in American energy production," Daines said.

The White House did not comment on the bill, but Stabenow said Biden backed the plan.
- - - -
The provisions of the bill could be beneficial in red states like Wyoming and West Virginia where coal plants have been retiring and coal mines reducing output, leading former workers to seek alternative employment opportunities. But some Republicans may be skeptical of the bill.

"I haven't seen pigs fly," Rep. David McKinley (R-W.Va.) told POLITICO on Friday, ahead of the bill announcement. "If manufacturing wanted to go to McGowan County or to Clay County or other areas of West Virginia ... those manufacturers would already be there. There can be an incentive, but Joe [Manchin] needs to understand its not just tax incentives. It's the availability of materials. What about the workforce, is it available? I'm not going to suggest it's all wrong, it needs a much bigger picture."

Bipartisan socialism to help out workers that need to transition from fossil fuels jobs - I can get behind that, as long as it actually works.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/03/2021 04:09PM by Ted King.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: March 03, 2021 04:20PM
Pigs = pork, no?
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: hal
Date: March 03, 2021 04:41PM
You'd think that if Manchin wanted this bill so bad, he might have played ball with the dems a little more.

It sounds great, but McKinley's points are reasonable questions. If manufacturers wanted to be there, they'd be there now. What would be required to entice them there? I HATE corp giveaways, but if ever there was a place that needed a boost, it's WV.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: bfd
Date: March 03, 2021 04:43PM
No Tit for Tat?
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 03, 2021 06:06PM
Pay it forward.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 03, 2021 06:45PM
I don't know what "materials" W.VA is challenged with (and I doubt he does, either) but if McKinley has a hobby of casting doubt on jobs growth he's very much in the wrong job there in W. VA.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 03, 2021 06:46PM
Don’t let stinginess be grounded in political bias. We’re all Americans.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 03, 2021 07:39PM
Quote
bfd
No Tit for Tat?

You think LBJ wouldn't have twisted an arm here and come away with a min wage bill & $2,000 checks? As it stands with the recent pare-back in eligibility, people will come away remembering that more people got more $ from Trump/GOP than Biden/Dem.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: March 03, 2021 08:45PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
bfd
No Tit for Tat?

You think LBJ wouldn't have twisted an arm here and come away with a min wage bill & $2,000 checks? As it stands with the recent pare-back in eligibility, people will come away remembering that more people got more $ from Trump/GOP than Biden/Dem.

Quite the opposite. I think they will compare $1400 withthe previous $1200 and hopefully be constantly reminded that (soon to be seen) "the Republicans voted against your $1400 check. Against the check. the Republicans. Who hate you.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 04, 2021 06:40AM
Biden limits eligibility for stimulus payments under pressure from moderate Senate Democrats

not GOP torpedoes; Democrat torpedoes!

That's today's WaPo headline. Tell me again what will register in people's minds because they wont read beyond that.

...beyond that

Narrowing eligibility for the stimulus checks was just one change moderates like Shaheen and Joe Manchin, D-W.Va., had been seeking. Several were also eyeing changing the structure of federal unemployment benefits in the bill, to keep them at $300 — their current level — rather than raise them to $400 as proposed by Biden and passed by the House.

That change will not be adopted by Senate Democrats, the aide said.

Centrist Senate Democrats had initially pushed for more aggressive restrictions on the stimulus payments. Senior Democratic officials had at one point considered dropping the full benefit for those making more than $50,000 per year, a change they ultimately abandoned after a backlash led by Senate Finance Chair Ron Wyden, D-Ore., and Senate Budget Chair Bernie Sanders, I-Vt.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: deckeda
Date: March 04, 2021 08:22AM
Yes, the less poor you are the less eligible you'll be. I'll need a minute to build sufficient faux outrage over that, please.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 04, 2021 04:17PM
It's about another delay in getting help to those really in need.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 05, 2021 07:49AM
The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly. WV is a gorgeous state that could thrive on tourism of those areas could be restored. Not to mention how that would improve quality of life for residents.

Decades of efforts to help our poorest state haven't gone all that well.

There are also people in small villages who want to do sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts, and just live. We should help them too.

We all benefitted from that coal.

It's been our American way to expect working people to move to where the jobs are and leave their original places to rot. It'd be great for society in many ways if we stopped doing that so much.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 07:51AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 05, 2021 10:36AM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
bfd
No Tit for Tat?

You think LBJ wouldn't have twisted an arm here and come away with a min wage bill & $2,000 checks? As it stands with the recent pare-back in eligibility, people will come away remembering that more people got more $ from Trump/GOP than Biden/Dem.

In 1965-67, (Medicare, Medicaid, Great Society/etc) Johnson had a 295 to 140 majority in the House and a 68 to 32 majority in the Senate.

You don’t have to twist a lot of arms with those numbers.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 05, 2021 11:02AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly. WV is a gorgeous state that could thrive on tourism of those areas could be restored. Not to mention how that would improve quality of life for residents.

Decades of efforts to help our poorest state haven't gone all that well.

There are also people in small villages who want to do sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts, and just live. We should help them too.

We all benefitted from that coal.

It's been our American way to expect working people to move to where the jobs are and leave their original places to rot. It'd be great for society in many ways if we stopped doing that so much.

There's often a conflation of what people want and what they need, and it's dangerous to skirt that line from an outside perspective.

West Virginia has extracted a lot of federal assistance over the years through the expert work of its senators to bring national dollars there. We do need to support local economies, but it's overly simplistic to say that we can tell them what's best for them, and that we will fund our priorities at the cost of their agency.

Before assuming that we know what's best for people in coal country, we (the Democratic party) needs to do a better job of understanding what these folks are dealing with, how they can imagine a way out, and help them do that. The people of WV powered the Tennessee Valley Authority, and brought electricity to millions through the burning of coal. We supported them then, and we need to support them as they develop an economic way out, not dictate how they should live now.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 05, 2021 11:08AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly. WV is a gorgeous state that could thrive on tourism of those areas could be restored. Not to mention how that would improve quality of life for residents.

Decades of efforts to help our poorest state haven't gone all that well.

There are also people in small villages who want to do sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts, and just live. We should help them too.

We all benefitted from that coal.

It's been our American way to expect working people to move to where the jobs are and leave their original places to rot. It'd be great for society in many ways if we stopped doing that so much.

There's often a conflation of what people want and what they need, and it's dangerous to skirt that line from an outside perspective.

West Virginia has extracted a lot of federal assistance over the years through the expert work of its senators to bring national dollars there. We do need to support local economies, but it's overly simplistic to say that we can tell them what's best for them, and that we will fund our priorities at the cost of their agency.

Before assuming that we know what's best for people in coal country, we (the Democratic party) needs to do a better job of understanding what these folks are dealing with, how they can imagine a way out, and help them do that. The people of WV powered the Tennessee Valley Authority, and brought electricity to millions through the burning of coal. We supported them then, and we need to support them as they develop an economic way out, not dictate how they should live now.

What are you responding to? The OP, or what I wrote?

I think you must have quoted me by mistake
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 05, 2021 11:21AM
You said "The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly."

I may agree with you, but have you gotten this info from West Virginians who are planning a new economy for their state?

Do they want to replace coal mining with "sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts"?

What do the people of West Virginia want to redevelop their economy?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 05, 2021 11:33AM
Quote
rjmacs
You said "The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly."

I may agree with you, but have you gotten this info from West Virginians who are planning a new economy for their state?

Do they want to replace coal mining with "sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts"?

What do the people of West Virginia want to redevelop their economy?

Yes, what I wrote represents views of people from West Virginia. Did you think I just made that up?

Just read this today. Should have linked it, my mistake.

The Promises to Coal Country Are Familiar, but Can Biden Deliver? [nyti.ms]
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 05, 2021 11:38AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
You said "The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly."

I may agree with you, but have you gotten this info from West Virginians who are planning a new economy for their state?

Do they want to replace coal mining with "sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts"?

What do the people of West Virginia want to redevelop their economy?

Yes, what I wrote represents views of people from West Virginia. Did you think I just made that up?

Just read this today. Should have linked it, my mistake.

The Promises to Coal Country Are Familiar, but Can Biden Deliver? [nyti.ms]

Thanks for the link. In that article, I saw one person quoted as saying that "the administration should also prioritize the region’s cultural heritage, which includes subsistence farming, furniture-making and other skills handed down from the days of homesteaders."

Is one person the voice of authority from WV now?



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/05/2021 11:38AM by rjmacs.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 05, 2021 12:11PM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
You said "The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly."

I may agree with you, but have you gotten this info from West Virginians who are planning a new economy for their state?

Do they want to replace coal mining with "sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts"?

What do the people of West Virginia want to redevelop their economy?

Yes, what I wrote represents views of people from West Virginia. Did you think I just made that up?

Just read this today. Should have linked it, my mistake.

The Promises to Coal Country Are Familiar, but Can Biden Deliver? [nyti.ms]

Thanks for the link. In that article, I saw one person quoted as saying that "the administration should also prioritize the region’s cultural heritage, which includes subsistence farming, furniture-making and other skills handed down from the days of homesteaders."

Is one person the voice of authority from WV now?


Is the point not that people in the state, like people everywhere, have diverse interests and skills to bring to the economy, and that decades of federal aid has often missed the mark?
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 05, 2021 12:22PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
You said "The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly."

I may agree with you, but have you gotten this info from West Virginians who are planning a new economy for their state?

Do they want to replace coal mining with "sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts"?

What do the people of West Virginia want to redevelop their economy?

Yes, what I wrote represents views of people from West Virginia. Did you think I just made that up?

Just read this today. Should have linked it, my mistake.

The Promises to Coal Country Are Familiar, but Can Biden Deliver? [nyti.ms]

Thanks for the link. In that article, I saw one person quoted as saying that "the administration should also prioritize the region’s cultural heritage, which includes subsistence farming, furniture-making and other skills handed down from the days of homesteaders."

Is one person the voice of authority from WV now?


Is the point not that people in the state, like people everywhere, have diverse interests and skills to bring to the economy, and that decades of federal aid has often missed the mark?

That's a reasonable point, of course. But, I think it's overly simplistic to say that a couple of interviewees from a NYT article better represent the needs and priorities of the people of WV than their elected representatives.

The work here is more complex than that. I've spent time in WV, and the communities there are incredibly diverse, both in their political orientations and their day to day needs. Asking what kind of economy should replace fossil fuel extraction is a very hard one, but one common thread is that the areas where coal is failing are very under-resourced. Federal aid isn't a one-step solution to the problem, but it will be necessary to improve people's lives and opportunities. Addressing centuries of entrenched racism is another problem entirely, but I hope it will be part of the federal project to renew the state's prospects.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: RgrF
Date: March 05, 2021 03:33PM
Quote
pdq
Quote
RgrF
Quote
bfd
No Tit for Tat?

You think LBJ wouldn't have twisted an arm here and come away with a min wage bill & $2,000 checks? As it stands with the recent pare-back in eligibility, people will come away remembering that more people got more $ from Trump/GOP than Biden/Dem.

In 1965-67, (Medicare, Medicaid, Great Society/etc) Johnson had a 295 to 140 majority in the House and a 68 to 32 majority in the Senate.

You don’t have to twist a lot of arms with those numbers.

That Dem majority included Dixicrats, most of whom - through seniority - chaired all of important Congressional committees, any one of could have and would have bottled up civil rights legislation had their arms not been aching. In doing so LBJ dispensed "pork" like it was a July 4th picnic.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 05, 2021 04:28PM
Pork is socialism, but only for the 0.01%.

W.V. desperately needs help to clean up all the superfund sites created by dumping waste from 'clean coal' plants. I would be very suspicious of any legislation that has the support from even one Senate Republican from any state that voted for the Pumpkin Dotard last year.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: March 06, 2021 07:37AM
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
rjmacs
You said "The thing that West Virginians want and need most is clean-up of the old coal and chemical producing sites that are polluted, dangerous, and very ugly."

I may agree with you, but have you gotten this info from West Virginians who are planning a new economy for their state?

Do they want to replace coal mining with "sustenance farming, build furniture and other crafts"?

What do the people of West Virginia want to redevelop their economy?

Yes, what I wrote represents views of people from West Virginia. Did you think I just made that up?

Just read this today. Should have linked it, my mistake.

The Promises to Coal Country Are Familiar, but Can Biden Deliver? [nyti.ms]

Thanks for the link. In that article, I saw one person quoted as saying that "the administration should also prioritize the region’s cultural heritage, which includes subsistence farming, furniture-making and other skills handed down from the days of homesteaders."

Is one person the voice of authority from WV now?


Is the point not that people in the state, like people everywhere, have diverse interests and skills to bring to the economy, and that decades of federal aid has often missed the mark?

That's a reasonable point, of course. But, I think it's overly simplistic to say that a couple of interviewees from a NYT article better represent the needs and priorities of the people of WV than their elected representatives.

The work here is more complex than that. I've spent time in WV, and the communities there are incredibly diverse, both in their political orientations and their day to day needs. Asking what kind of economy should replace fossil fuel extraction is a very hard one, but one common thread is that the areas where coal is failing are very under-resourced. Federal aid isn't a one-step solution to the problem, but it will be necessary to improve people's lives and opportunities. Addressing centuries of entrenched racism is another problem entirely, but I hope it will be part of the federal project to renew the state's prospects.


I also know West Virginia well. My college roomie was from Charleston, her Dad was an attorney who represented sick coal miners.

I would argue that they have been poorly represented by all levels of government over many decades. That's the point of the article I linked, the voices of the people are left out too often. Especially when there is a patronizing assumption that government must know better.

The rep quoted in the OP is a coal mine loving Trumpeteer.

In journalism it's normal to quote only a few people when making a larger point, and IMO the article did that nicely.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2021 07:39AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Manchin, Stabenow push $8B tax credit to bring factories for former coal sites"
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: March 06, 2021 12:12PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
I also know West Virginia well. My college roomie was from Charleston, her Dad was an attorney who represented sick coal miners.

I would argue that they have been poorly represented by all levels of government over many decades. That's the point of the article I linked, the voices of the people are left out too often. Especially when there is a patronizing assumption that government must know better.

The rep quoted in the OP is a coal mine loving Trumpeteer.

In journalism it's normal to quote only a few people when making a larger point, and IMO the article did that nicely.

OK. We can agree to disagree. I obviously favor elevating the voices of the un- and under-represented in matters of public policy. But we live in a representative democracy, with all its weaknesses and failures. Media will never replace voters, and the way through this isn't through hope and NYT articles. It's through the willingness of people on the ground to educate voters and bring change through the enactment of better policy through electoral politics. I believe in democracy, and that's where I'll leave this argument.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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