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Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 06, 2021 04:05PM
"Suck it, Asa" - Arkansas lawmakers

Arkansas has criminalized healthcare for trans children - again - overriding Gov. Hutchinson's veto and guaranteeing that parents of trans kids will have to travel out of state if they want supportive care.

These legislators are monsters. Just awful human beings who would rather see trans kids die by suicide than have the opportunity to be cared for by professionals.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Acer
Date: April 06, 2021 04:17PM
Party of small government, ladies and gentlemen!
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: April 06, 2021 04:17PM
Wow, I did not think that would happen...boy am I naive!
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Zoidberg
Date: April 06, 2021 04:22PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Wow, I did not think that would happen...boy am I naive!

Yeah, when the Gov vetoed it, I thought that was that. Should have realized racism and hatred around here are more powerful than that.

Here's hoping the ACLU makes this a big embarrassment for Arkansas.



(BTW, it's spelled < y'all >.)
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 06, 2021 04:48PM
The Culture War is the only thing left for the GOP
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: April 06, 2021 05:01PM
Little worse than scared nutters.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: April 06, 2021 05:18PM
organized slaughter of those different from you has always been a big feature of Easter Season
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: mattkime
Date: April 06, 2021 05:23PM
Quote
Steve G.
organized slaughter of those different from you has always been a big feature of Easter Season

buuuuurn!



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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: April 06, 2021 05:55PM
What is the prison sentence for physicians who disobey that law? Is it 20 years like it is here in South Carolina?
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: April 06, 2021 06:52PM
I'm not sure I share the perspective that this is to "spite" anyone or that it "criminalizes" healthcare. Surgery requires consent. The child can't consent because they're a minor, and the parent shouldn't be able to alter the genitalia or physiologic development of their child. Everyone can chart their own course at adulthood.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: hal
Date: April 06, 2021 07:31PM
Quote
Marc Anthony
I'm not sure I share the perspective that this is to "spite" anyone or that it "criminalizes" healthcare. Surgery requires consent. The child can't consent because they're a minor, and the parent shouldn't be able to alter the genitalia or physiologic development of their child. Everyone can chart their own course at adulthood.

Seems you are only addressing surgery. The law prohibits any treatment at all.

from the art:
"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that youth who identify as transgender have access to comprehensive, gender-affirming, and developmentally appropriate health care that is provided in a safe and inclusive clinical space," AAP President Dr. Lee Savio Beers said in a statement last month. "[The] legislation would allow policymakers rather than pediatricians to determine the best course of care for our patients, and in some medically underserved states, it could mean losing an already limited number of pediatric practitioners who care for transgender youth."
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: bfd
Date: April 06, 2021 08:33PM
Pretty easy politically. I vetoed that proposal. (knowing that it'd be overridden anyway)
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: April 06, 2021 08:38PM
Quote
bfd
Pretty easy politically. I vetoed that proposal. (knowing that it'd be overridden anyway)

I think he caught hell from lots of medical people and others, so this made them happy.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: bfd
Date: April 06, 2021 08:47PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
bfd
Pretty easy politically. I vetoed that proposal. (knowing that it'd be overridden anyway)

I think he caught hell from lots of medical people and others, so this made them happy.

He seems pretty well entrenched - unless, of course, he is forced farther to the right. Arkansas isn't a completely red state like a few of the other Deep South states. There are still enough thinking people there - in Arkansas - to make a difference.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2021 08:48PM by bfd.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: vision63
Date: April 06, 2021 11:06PM
Quote
bfd
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
bfd
Pretty easy politically. I vetoed that proposal. (knowing that it'd be overridden anyway)

I think he caught hell from lots of medical people and others, so this made them happy.

He seems pretty well entrenched - unless, of course, he is forced farther to the right. Arkansas isn't a completely red state like a few of the other Deep South states. There are still enough thinking people there - in Arkansas - to make a difference.

True statement.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 06, 2021 11:09PM
Quote
hal
Quote
Marc Anthony
I'm not sure I share the perspective that this is to "spite" anyone or that it "criminalizes" healthcare. Surgery requires consent. The child can't consent because they're a minor, and the parent shouldn't be able to alter the genitalia or physiologic development of their child. Everyone can chart their own course at adulthood.

Seems you are only addressing surgery. The law prohibits any treatment at all.

from the art:
"The American Academy of Pediatrics recommends that youth who identify as transgender have access to comprehensive, gender-affirming, and developmentally appropriate health care that is provided in a safe and inclusive clinical space," AAP President Dr. Lee Savio Beers said in a statement last month. "[The] legislation would allow policymakers rather than pediatricians to determine the best course of care for our patients, and in some medically underserved states, it could mean losing an already limited number of pediatric practitioners who care for transgender youth."

...Including mental health care.

Don't even think of Googling the suicide rate for trans-kids unless you're ready to cry.



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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 07, 2021 08:08AM
South Carolina killed a similar bill before it got out of committee, after an outcry from health professionals and other advocates. Goodness, I guess we have "thinking people" too.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 07, 2021 01:59PM
Quote
Marc Anthony
I'm not sure I share the perspective that this is to "spite" anyone or that it "criminalizes" healthcare. Surgery requires consent. The child can't consent because they're a minor, and the parent shouldn't be able to alter the genitalia or physiologic development of their child. Everyone can chart their own course at adulthood.

Surgical procedures for gender dysphoria are not performed on minors in the United States (or anywhere else, as far as I know).

No one can consent to, or undergo, gender affirmation surgery as a child. No one. Not in any state. This is a red herring and is one of the talking points used by deceitful opponents of trans affirming healthcare to promote diabolical laws like Arkansas'.

So, you're right, Marc Anthony - "Everyone can chart their own course at adulthood."

You know what you can't do in adulthood as a trans person? You can't reverse puberty, which means that trans men who develop breasts, or trans women whose voices irreversibly deepen, are at higher risk for suicide because of exacerbated gender dysphoria, both during adolescence and adulthood.

This law is absolutely for spite, and it's absolutely criminalization of physicians who provide affirming, non-permanent, and non-surgical healthcare to trans children.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/07/2021 02:00PM by rjmacs.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 07, 2021 06:04PM
All major medical associations oppose this and similar laws.

ACLU Arkansas vows to fight it in court.
[www.aclu.org]
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: April 08, 2021 03:27PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
All major medical associations oppose this and similar laws.

ACLU Arkansas vows to fight it in court.
[www.aclu.org]

And remember, when right-wingers claim that christians are being repressed, this is what they mean; their ability to force their beliefs on others, not to practice their faith themselves.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: April 08, 2021 06:39PM
I see this as an ethics question rather than a religious one. Children lack agency because they are naive and ill-equipped to make their own decisions. The hyperbole in this thread aside, the Arkansas law doesn't criminalize health care—only interventions related to early transitioning—so the question is does potential anxiety become sufficient cause to grant life-altering emancipation to trans minors?



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: rjmacs
Date: April 08, 2021 07:11PM
Quote
Marc Anthony
I see this as an ethics question rather than a religious one. Children lack agency because they are naive and ill-equipped to make their own decisions. The hyperbole in this thread aside, the Arkansas law doesn't criminalize health care—only interventions related to early transitioning—so the question is does potential anxiety become sufficient cause to grant life-altering emancipation to trans minors?

You're missing the point, Marc Anthony.

The dangerous life alterations for trans children are those that are irreversible that occur without medical support during adolescence.

A trans woman cannot retain her voice if she goes through puberty and undergoes vocal changes caused by testosterone that cannot be reversed.

A trans man cannot avoid having to confront the necessity of risky mastectomies in adulthood if he unwillingly develops breasts because of the effects of estrogen.

These processes can be safely halted during early adolescence, which allows trans children to avoid unnecessary pain and risk - and does not prevent them from making their own decisions at 18.



rj
AKA
Vreemac, Moth of the Future
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: April 08, 2021 07:29PM
A big takeaway of this is that many more suicides will be caused by this.
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Re: Arkansas just overrode the governor to spite trans children
Posted by: Maddog
Date: April 09, 2021 04:35PM
I believe the bigger issue is why legislators think they know more about medical care than physicians. Any law should have to leave the autonomy of physicians and patients alone. If they really wanted to protect these children and really believed that inappropriate care was being performed, they could have set up a review board of doctors to review these decisions. You can be sure they do not care about patients, just politics.
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