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City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 26, 2021 12:33PM
'A North Carolina city declared a state of emergency Monday morning amid concerns that video showing the police killing of Andrew Brown Jr. could cause civil unrest when it's released to the public.'

[www.cnn.com]

When will real police reform happen?
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: btfc
Date: April 26, 2021 12:49PM
[m.youtube.com]
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: deckeda
Date: April 26, 2021 12:54PM
Seems they are aware that video showing an unarmed Black man being shot by 3 cops while trying to flee isn't a popular look for the department.

Quote
initial WaPo story
“Our training and our policies indicate under such circumstances there is a high risk of danger,” Fogg said in the recorded statement.

Those who watched the encounter told local media that Brown got into his car and started to drive away from law enforcement. That’s when, neighbors say, the sheriff’s deputies started shooting at Brown, firing off six to eight shots. The News & Observer said that one neighbor said she found 14 shell casings. Daniels told The Post that it remained unclear whether Brown was shot at from outside his car. He added that all three deputies fired their guns.

The circumstances Fogg was referring to was that Brown had "a history" of resisting arrest, which these days could mean anything including telling an officer, "no."

I think that if today's police could just arrest people by using joysticks and headsets while safely ensconced in a cubicle somewhere, they'd do it.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2021 12:55PM by deckeda.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 26, 2021 01:07PM
Since when is it ok to shoot-to-kill when someone is simply resisting arrest?

Have I been under a rock?

Some perspectives:

[www.vox.com]

[www.americanbar.org]
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 26, 2021 01:11PM
No drugs found in his car or home.

7 deputies on leave, 3 others resigned at the same time.

Good article about the conservative court decision that framed today's policing methods. Prior to this 1980s case, they killed fewer people. It does not have to be this way.

Split-Second Decisions: How a Supreme Court Case Shaped Modern Policing [nyti.ms]

I would also note that protests to date in Elizabeth City, population 18k, have been well attended but peaceful. This state of emergency is al little dramatic I think.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2021 01:15PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: btfc
Date: April 26, 2021 01:15PM
Read that article this morning, it is good.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: p8712
Date: April 26, 2021 01:20PM
Quote

I think that if today's police could just arrest people by using joysticks and headsets while safely ensconced in a cubicle somewhere, they'd do it.

Coming soon...



The robot felt in danger for its life. It had to terminate that black man! Metal lives matter! We can’t just build more machines!
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: sekker
Date: April 26, 2021 01:37PM
Quote
p8712
Quote

I think that if today's police could just arrest people by using joysticks and headsets while safely ensconced in a cubicle somewhere, they'd do it.

Coming soon...



The robot felt in danger for its life. It had to terminate that black man! Metal lives matter! We can’t just build more machines!

NCIS: The Robot Legion practically writes itself.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: April 26, 2021 03:14PM
Except the police prefer





“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: pdq
Date: April 26, 2021 04:04PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
No drugs found in his car or home.

7 deputies on leave, 3 others resigned at the same time.

Another story I saw said that the family was shown 20 seconds of police video (with the officers faces blurred out) that showed this guy had his hands visible on the steering wheel during the shooting.

Oh dear. Not again.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: deckeda
Date: April 26, 2021 04:14PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
No drugs found in his car or home.

7 deputies on leave, 3 others resigned at the same time.

Good article about the conservative court decision that framed today's policing methods. Prior to this 1980s case, they killed fewer people. It does not have to be this way.

Split-Second Decisions: How a Supreme Court Case Shaped Modern Policing [nyti.ms]

I would also note that protests to date in Elizabeth City, population 18k, have been well attended but peaceful. This state of emergency is al little dramatic I think.

There's a really good Radiolab episode from last summer that goes into the Graham decision, i.e. the "reasonable cop" standard that got manufactured from convenience. Highly recommended: [www.wnycstudios.org]

Actually the episode might be older than that and they just re-ran it last summer? Regardless, they could be re-running it ad infinitum until everyone realizes it wasn't always like this.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 26, 2021 04:27PM
Quote
deckeda
Quote
Lemon Drop
No drugs found in his car or home.

7 deputies on leave, 3 others resigned at the same time.

Good article about the conservative court decision that framed today's policing methods. Prior to this 1980s case, they killed fewer people. It does not have to be this way.

Split-Second Decisions: How a Supreme Court Case Shaped Modern Policing [nyti.ms]

I would also note that protests to date in Elizabeth City, population 18k, have been well attended but peaceful. This state of emergency is al little dramatic I think.

There's a really good Radiolab episode from last summer that goes into the Graham decision, i.e. the "reasonable cop" standard that got manufactured from convenience. Highly recommended: [www.wnycstudios.org]

Actually the episode might be older than that and they just re-ran it last summer? Regardless, they could be re-running it ad infinitum until everyone realizes it wasn't always like this.

Thanks I will check that out.

To fix this we need to better understand how we got here.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Ted King
Date: April 26, 2021 04:52PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
No drugs found in his car or home.

7 deputies on leave, 3 others resigned at the same time.

Good article about the conservative court decision that framed today's policing methods. Prior to this 1980s case, they killed fewer people. It does not have to be this way.

Split-Second Decisions: How a Supreme Court Case Shaped Modern Policing [nyti.ms]

I would also note that protests to date in Elizabeth City, population 18k, have been well attended but peaceful. This state of emergency is al little dramatic I think.

That is an excellent article. I think the crux of the Court's decision comes down to this:

Quote

Many critics say the standard’s narrow focus on the moment an officer pulls the trigger obscures questions about the many choices that led up to the confrontation, noted Rachel Harmon, an authority on police law at the University of Virginia. For example, she said, did the officer rush recklessly into danger or take steps to defuse the situation?

An officer is allowed to use the whole context of things that lead them into an interaction with a citizen that can come to a detainment and arrest, including their own personal experiences as a law enforcement officer, yet they can act as judge and jury in a split second and we are supposed to not take into account the context around what lead to that split second decision to shoot? We allow officers extremely wide latitude in claiming they have probable cause to detain you and extremely wide latitude in how aggressive they can be with you while detaining you and extremely wide latitude in accepting an officer's personal feelings of fear for themselves or others in the moment they choose to shoot someone. Too damn much latitude!

As for prospects of constricting the latitude officers get, this is depressing (from the article):

Quote

But Mr. James, general counsel of the Fraternal Order of Police, brushed off all the efforts at legislation and said he was not worried. Even if states or Congress pass stricter standards “that trump Graham v. Connor,” he said much would depend on whether judges continue to instruct juries, as they often have since the ruling, about the inherent risks of second-guessing an officer’s split-second decision.

Still, I'll bet there are things that can be done through legislation that can withstand the Court's muster. The most success may come from cities and states changing laws and policing practices where those changes can be made.



e pluribus unum



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/26/2021 05:04PM by Ted King.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: April 26, 2021 05:08PM
According to North Carolina law, police body camera footage can only be released to the public with a court order.

I smell the need for a very strong consent-decree.



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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Sam3
Date: April 27, 2021 05:44AM
Quote
btfc
[m.youtube.com]

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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 27, 2021 10:48AM
Attorney Ben Crump and the family of 42 year old Andrew Brown said results of an independent autopsy showed he was shot 4 times in the arms and once in the back of his head.

The deputies approached him in his driveway. Witnesses say he had both hands on the wheel and started to move the car when killed.

Family is calling it an execution.

Does not appear that anyone was in danger, except of course the unarmed man killed by these heavily armed deputies.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 27, 2021 12:21PM
And the FBI and DOJ have opened a civil rights investigation into this killing. That was far
I like this Merrick Garland.
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Re: City calls for State of Emergency before releasing webcam footage
Posted by: btfc
Date: April 27, 2021 12:59PM
Listened to the Radiolab episode last night; interesting.
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