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Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 22, 2021 01:56PM
Guns are destroying this country.

Quote

Alexis Cloonan, the boy's sister, said Aiden told his mother, "Mommy, my tummy hurts" after he was shot, according to a Fox 11 Los Angeles livestream of a Friday news conference. His mother saw blood on the boy's stomach and noticed him start to turn blue.

"And that was the last time my mom saw him alive," Cloonan said.

...A California Highway Patrol officer described the shooting to KTLA-TV as an "isolated road rage incident between the mom and another driver."

An armed society is a polite society...

barf smiley
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: space-time
Date: May 22, 2021 02:09PM
They have so many cameras and EZ-Pass readers these days, I hope they find some leads.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: May 22, 2021 02:51PM
I read that the other day and it practically made me cry. Justice is not enough in this case.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 22, 2021 03:21PM
Obviously if mom had been armed with an AR-15 and a large caliber hand gun or two, she would have been able to defend herself and her family and her son would be alive. In fact, her son could have been lobbing rounds as mom made evasive maneuvers.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: mrbill62
Date: May 22, 2021 04:17PM
Few questions:
Was the shooter legally able to own a gun Or was he/she/it a prohibited user?
After searching & reading several stories, the only description I found was "a white sedan."

This occurred in a state with some of the strictest gun control laws in the country. California is rated by several groups as having the toughest gun laws in the US.

Taking this into consideration, what are the odds that the shooter is a prohibited person with an illegally owned gun?

Sure, take the intellectually lazy way & blame the gun, not the shooter.

This is a tragedy.

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Obviously if mom had been armed with an AR-15 and a large caliber hand gun or two, she would have been able to defend herself and her family and her son would be alive. In fact, her son could have been lobbing rounds as mom made evasive maneuvers.

Typical reductio ad absurdum. Unable to argue facts, resort to sarcasm and/or mockery.
Here's part of a flow chart to determine legality of a semi-auto rifle in California:


_____
In DC a couple of nights ago, a mother & son were shot in an argument over where a scooter was parked. Fortunately both will survive.

Where is the outrage of people being raised to settle arguments this way? Why isn't conflict resolution taught in schools instead of some of the other crap being pushed onto children?

No be lazy & blame the gun. Avoid placing responsibility where it deserves to be placed - on the person whose pulled the trigger.

Nobody wants to accept responsibility any more. It's almost always someone else's fault.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Ammo
Date: May 22, 2021 04:27PM
Nobody wants to accept responsibility any more. It's almost always someone else's fault.

That’s exactly what I think of many gun owners like yourself.



Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/22/2021 04:29PM by Ammo.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 22, 2021 04:39PM
Quote
mrbill62
Why isn't conflict resolution taught in schools instead of some of the other crap being pushed onto children?

What, specifically, is the "other crap being pushed onto children" that you're alluding to here?
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: August West
Date: May 22, 2021 05:07PM
There's a dead child, ass-wipe.



Apologies to the anonymous forum member affected by my previous sig pic. It was my personal pic of a country expressing great grief as their leader, one of the most recognized people in the world, lay on his deathbed 8 years ago, days before he died. Like a naif, I did not realize it was offensively political, I considered it an expression of deep emotion and a reminder of the mortal coil's nature; that we all, great and small, can only hope to make a difference in our short time here, no matter the personal cost.

I'll post another pic from my work in South Africa that is, hopefully, apolitical.

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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: May 22, 2021 06:01PM
Happened just a few miles from here. The fact is that guns are easily purchased in California, that there are legally purchasable versions of assault weapons (broadly defined), and there are any number of pistols that can be purchased legally. And guns that would be hard to buy in a store in California can get here because this country has open borders from one state to another.

So saying that California has some of the higher bars to weapons ownership really isn't saying anything.

I would agree that it's not just the guns. It's the gun culture. There's certainly a bit of that in the above comments. (Don't you love it when member of the gun culture show the rest of us that we don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of weapons, the law, and the difference between a machine gun and a semiautomatic rifle?) What's so unfortunate is that the gun culture has also come to mean the behavior of a subset -- those who shoot total strangers, sometimes in large numbers, for reasons of their own.

There is a problem with gun culture. The other problem is that preventing the widespread murder is something that can be accomplished in countries that are both civilized and don't have as many guns -- the idea of gun culture doesn't take hold because most of the people don't own a semiautomatic pistol or rifle or even a revolver. That's a lot different from somebody in a farm house owning a double barrel shotgun. You can't squeeze off 30 rounds in 25 seconds with the shotgun.

It would be nice, and maybe useful, if the pro-gun folks would at least offer some condemnation of the random killers.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 22, 2021 10:05PM
People can easily obtain guns both legally and illegally because there's so damn many of them floating around.

Trivia: The Las Vegas shooter's entire arsenal of 23 guns was legally owned.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: mrbill62
Date: May 23, 2021 12:11AM
More lazy stereotyping. Again blaming "gun culture". What about gang culture? Drug culture?

Because I did my homework to be a responsible gun owner, I automatically get a negative label here. Your willingness to stereotype all legal gun owners reveals the inherent hypocrisy of democrats & progressives.

Preach tolerance - don't lump all blacks, Muslims, etc with bad actors - legal gun owners, it's acceptable & done all the time, as evidenced here. Based on a quick review of topics in this forum, I should add Christians & Republicans to the list.

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(Don't you love it when member of the gun culture show the rest of us that we don't have an encyclopedic knowledge of weapons, the law, and the difference between a machine gun and a semiautomatic rifle?)

I have attempted to provide reasonable, fact based information on the pro-gun side of the debate.

As with any subject, definitions are important. For example in medicine, "negative" is a good thing. You definitely want a negative result on your cancer screening.

Lawyers have their own ways of naming things. Briefs to a lawyer means something different to normal people.

Much of the "gun culture" nomenclature comes from history, the military, and unfortunately lawyers. "Assault Weapon" is a made up term to push gun control. Assault Weapon Information

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The fact is that guns are easily purchased in California, that there are legally purchasable versions of assault weapons (broadly defined), and there are any number of pistols that can be purchased legally. And guns that would be hard to buy in a store in California can get here because this country has open borders from one state to another.

If you're rich, a politician, or a celebrity - getting a gun is easy in CA & NY.

The flow chart was in response to the stupid & lazy comment that the kid's mother should have armed herself with an AR-15. I met reductio ad absurdum with reductio ad absurdum.

Leland Yee, remember him, the ex-State Senator convicted of Arms Trafficking?

Then there is State Senator Kevin DeLeon, who made a complete fool of himself describing "ghost guns". Search YouTube.

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What, specifically, is the "other crap being pushed onto children" that you're alluding to here?
Transgenderism to start. Most children are not developed either intellectually or emotionally enough to make such an irreversible lifelong decision. How about transvestite story hour?
Critical Race Theory, that's another. Making children apologize for being white, something they can't control. How about mixed race children? Are Asians next? Jews?

Civics education has been lost. How often do you see politicians claim that we live in a Democracy? The US is a NOT a Democracy, it is a Constitutional Republic. How many people complain about states getting equal representation in the Senate, pointing out that California should get more Senators than say Wyoming? Ever notice they don't mention Rhode Island or Delaware?

Critical thinking is a disappearing skill, lost in emotional responses as demonstrated here frequently.

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That’s exactly what I think of many gun owners like yourself.
Thanks for making my point. Fortunately my self esteem isn't dependent on your opinions.


Realized I'm wasting my time trying to reason with closed minded hypocrites.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 23, 2021 04:22AM
The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 23, 2021 08:17AM
If the shooter didn't have a gun, no one would have been shot.
If the victim's mother and the aggressor had a gun, none, one, two or three people might have been shot.

I'm having trouble finding a way to fit transgenderism, lack of civics education, intolerance of intolerance, gang culture, drug culture into these equations. They may be involved, as we are all complicated creatures who carry years of baggages with us, and sometimes little things can trigger an exaggerated response. But, at its very essence, if there were no guns at hand, no one would have been shot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2021 08:18AM by Acer.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 23, 2021 09:07AM
As I mentioned in another thread, many of us saw this kind of event becoming more common as gun laws were loosened by the efforts of a narrow minority who think that more guns make things better. They dismissed our concerns that simple road rage incidents like these might turn into shootouts or murders.

They called us intellectually lazy for voicing such concerns, and responded with a selection of their one-liners and mantras which seem to constitute their reasoning.

And here we are.

We don’t have to put up with this. Every other first world country on the planet has a lower gun death rate than we do. We should, and can, be like them.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 23, 2021 09:09AM
Well stated pdq



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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 23, 2021 09:31AM
Quote
pdq
As I mentioned in another thread, many of us saw this kind of event becoming more common as gun laws were loosened...

What, exactly, has been loosened in California (with respect to gun laws) as of late?
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 23, 2021 09:44AM
As pointed out previously (as if you didn’t know), it’s a simple matter to bring guns in from other states...or even, in some cases, neighboring municipalities. But you’re right in a way; eliminating this cancer will require a national approach.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 23, 2021 12:04PM
Can we hold people accountable for their actions? Especially violent offenders or those that violate current gun laws.

Why hasn't Hunter Biden been charged with federal felony gun violation? He lied on the federal form to purchase a handgun (lied about his drug addiction). His SIL, fearing for his safety, took the unsecured firearm from his vehicle (ding ding ding - another issue). She then threw the gun in a garbage can within a no gun zone. Nether has faced any charges for their actions.

Then the Secret Service tried to take the Firearm Dealers copy of the federal form. They have no jurisdiction over background checks or firearms violations. One has to ask why.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: May 23, 2021 12:45PM
Quote
macphanatic
Can we hold people accountable for their actions? Especially violent offenders or those that violate current gun laws.

Why hasn't Hunter Biden been charged with federal felony gun violation? He lied on the federal form to purchase a handgun (lied about his drug addiction)..."

Because nobody is ever prosecuted for that.



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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 23, 2021 12:51PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
macphanatic
Can we hold people accountable for their actions? Especially violent offenders or those that violate current gun laws.

Why hasn't Hunter Biden been charged with federal felony gun violation? He lied on the federal form to purchase a handgun (lied about his drug addiction)..."

Because nobody is ever prosecuted for that.

Definition of insanity. We create more restrictive laws that punish those that behave but NEVER hold those that don't accountable. And people wonder why we are in the situation that we're in.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 23, 2021 01:00PM
One has to ask why someone has so little regard for the life of six year old child who was murdered a few days ago that they would need to hijack a thread on that subject to introduce a 2 1/2 year old, completely unrelated story.

One would have to conclude that said poster doesn’t care one whit about said child, and that trying to score points on the political side of a computer forum is what is really important to him.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/23/2021 01:14PM by btfc.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: pdq
Date: May 23, 2021 01:11PM
Today’s mass shooting. 14 shot, two of whom died.

Quote

"If you're going to a party, why do you need to take a gun?" he asked. "If you're there to have a good time why do you need a gun with you?”

Good question.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 23, 2021 01:41PM
Quote
pdq
As pointed out previously (as if you didn’t know), it’s a simple matter to bring guns in from other states...or even, in some cases, neighboring municipalities. But you’re right in a way; eliminating this cancer will require a national approach.

Well - kinda skimpy on the details, I see.

Ok, for a serious discussion (on the off-chance anyone on this forum actually wants to have one), l'll throw in my $0.02:
Every State should participate in NICS - and any crimes committed as a juvenile should be included in that as well...I suspect that folks doing straw purchases may well have less than stellar teen years.


Oh - and for something California-specific:
Releasing "76,000 inmates, including violent and repeat felons" is not a good idea (IMHO).
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 23, 2021 02:33PM
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
macphanatic
Can we hold people accountable for their actions? Especially violent offenders or those that violate current gun laws.

Why hasn't Hunter Biden been charged with federal felony gun violation? He lied on the federal form to purchase a handgun (lied about his drug addiction)..."

Because nobody is ever prosecuted for that.

Definition of insanity. We create more restrictive laws that punish those that behave but NEVER hold those that don't accountable. And people wonder why we are in the situation that we're in.

What "punishment" does a law-abiding person get for properly and honestly completing a background check to purchase a handgun?
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 23, 2021 02:58PM
Quote
btfc
One has to ask why someone has so little regard for the life of six year old child who was murdered a few days ago that they would need to hijack a thread on that subject to introduce a 2 1/2 year old, completely unrelated story.

One would have to conclude that said poster doesn’t care one whit about said child, and that trying to score points on the political side of a computer forum is what is really important to him.

I care about every innocent life lost. I’m SICK that we don’t hold everyone accountable for their behavior and seem surprised that bad things continue to happen. The shooter should spend the rest of his/her life rotting in jail.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: May 23, 2021 03:00PM
Quote
Acer
Quote
macphanatic
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
macphanatic
Can we hold people accountable for their actions? Especially violent offenders or those that violate current gun laws.

Why hasn't Hunter Biden been charged with federal felony gun violation? He lied on the federal form to purchase a handgun (lied about his drug addiction)..."

Because nobody is ever prosecuted for that.

Definition of insanity. We create more restrictive laws that punish those that behave but NEVER hold those that don't accountable. And people wonder why we are in the situation that we're in.

What "punishment" does a law-abiding person get for properly and honestly completing a background check to purchase a handgun?
were talking about someone who LIED and wasn’t held accountable. I never said I was against background checks.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: May 23, 2021 04:05PM
Quote
macphanatic
were talking about someone who LIED and wasn’t held accountable. I never said I was against background checks.

What punishment would you give Trump?



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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 23, 2021 09:37PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
macphanatic
were talking about someone who LIED and wasn’t held accountable. I never said I was against background checks.

What punishment would you give Trump?

When Pres. Trump lied, nobody died, ah, er...



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: May 23, 2021 09:43PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
macphanatic
were talking about someone who LIED and wasn’t held accountable. I never said I was against background checks.

What punishment would you give Trump?

When Pres. Trump lied, nobody died, ah, er...

Yeah, you were saying?

Also, massive international bank-fraud, defaulting on hundreds of loans, failing to pay contractors (one recent victim is Rudy Giuliani) with no accountability. But he's a rich republican, so we ignore it?



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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 23, 2021 09:49PM
hmmm...something must be wrong with the forum software - thought I had clicked on a thread about a shooting in Orange County, CA - this appears to be a different topic altogether...
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Re: Another road rage incident; this one claims 6-year-old
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 23, 2021 09:55PM
Quote
SDGuy
hmmm...something must be wrong with the forum software - thought I had clicked on a thread about a shooting in Orange County, CA - this appears to be a different topic altogether...

No, all roads lead back to the Russian-funded NRA. Sometimes the route is a bit circuitous.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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