advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 15, 2021 12:30PM
“ Washington man accused of shooting thief, dragging him behind truck while still alive “


[news.yahoo.com]
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: pdq
Date: June 15, 2021 12:55PM
In an abstract sense, I’m okay with that. People who cause thousands of dollars of damage to gain maybe a hundred are the worst.

And no, I’ve never had it happen to me; the people it happens to though seem to be those least able to afford it.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: Rolando
Date: June 15, 2021 01:14PM
In Texas, you can shoot some one for stealing your car. Dragging the perp...yeah that's hate. Maybe they'll both be in the same cell.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 15, 2021 02:46PM
Quote
pdq
In an abstract sense, I’m okay with that. People who cause thousands of dollars of damage to gain maybe a hundred are the worst.

And no, I’ve never had it happen to me; the people it happens to though seem to be those least able to afford it.

That places a low value on human life.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: Todd's keyboard
Date: June 15, 2021 04:08PM
Quote
Rolando
In Texas, you can shoot some one for stealing your car. Dragging the perp...yeah that's hate. (snip)

In an operant-conditioning sense, I suppose shooting someone in the leg while that person is in the act of stealing would be considered negative reinforcement. (An uncomfortable environment exists while the behavior manifests. As soon as the behavior stops, the environment changes to no longer be uncomfortable. Annoying sounds made until a seat belt is fastened is another example of negative reinforcement.)

Dragging someone who is no longer actively stealing would be considered punishment.

From many miles (and another country) away, I'm curious if the judicial system will view it in these terms.

Todd's Skinner-board
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 15, 2021 04:21PM
I knew it would be Lakewood before I even looked. Lakewood WA is where the TV show "Cops" got its start. My partner's little brother's HS GF was on it. At their 10th reunion, that episode was actually shown on the TV in the hotel bar as she walked in. Epic coincidence.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: Buzz
Date: June 15, 2021 04:58PM
Shooting the perp while actively stealing the part = OK

Dragging the perp after shooting and binding = not so OK

Cat converter on my ancient Buick Regal was stolen way back when. Pissed me off big time. Didn't catch the perp in the act, so no shots fired. Found a guy, that knew a guy, that "repaired" the missing cat situation by piping a piece of exhaust pipe straight thru an empty cat shell to the muffler. Buick actually ran better after that, and managed to pass its smog inspections until it was t-boned by an old-ish Jaguar with an uninsured driver, which rendered the frame bent and irreparable.

These days I don't think a bypassed cat would pass inspection, and they're probably pricier than 40 years ago, and way pricier to fix than back then. I'd be OK with shooting the perp in his legs today, if caught in the act, so that he couldn't get away until the cops, and ambulance came for him. The Washington article said that that perp did try to get away after being shot. Dragging him behind a F-150 was a bit much.
==
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: pdq
Date: June 15, 2021 05:02PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
pdq
In an abstract sense, I’m okay with that. People who cause thousands of dollars of damage to gain maybe a hundred are the worst.

And no, I’ve never had it happen to me; the people it happens to though seem to be those least able to afford it.

That places a low value on human life.

It was tongue-in-cheek.

But just barely.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: timg
Date: June 15, 2021 05:05PM
Quote
Rolando
In Texas, you can shoot some one for stealing your car. Dragging the perp...yeah that's hate. Maybe they'll both be in the same cell.

Not likely since it seems the thief is dead.



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: mattkime
Date: June 15, 2021 05:49PM
Quote
pdq
Quote
mattkime
Quote
pdq
In an abstract sense, I’m okay with that. People who cause thousands of dollars of damage to gain maybe a hundred are the worst.

And no, I’ve never had it happen to me; the people it happens to though seem to be those least able to afford it.

That places a low value on human life.

It was tongue-in-cheek.

But just barely.

Hard to tell these days.



Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 15, 2021 06:51PM
That places a low value on human life.

Exactly, extremely low.


Hard to tell these days.

Indeed.



I may be an outlier, but the use of lethal force on an apparent non-violent suspect/criminal is abhorrent.

I grew up in a era where 'as long as you drag him inside' was actual advice from police for citizens shooting fleeing burglary suspects!

Killing someone, or risking killing someone, i.e. using lethal force for stealing stuff isn't, or shouldn't be acceptable to anyone.

Unfortunately, it still is, in too many places and relocating a suspect into one's home isn't even necessary.

I'm reminded of an incident in TX where a young Japanese exchange student was killed trying to attend a Halloween party.

He was apparently dropped off at the wrong address, and spotted at the end of the driveway by the owner.

The owner apparently thought the camera in the kid's hand was a gun and told his wife to 'get the gun'.

Not call the police (I don't remember if 9-1-1 was around at the time) but 'git the gun, Martha!'

[Ok, I editorialized that time]

The gun was a scoped revolver he used for hunting, a .44Mag if I recall correctly.

He killed the kid and wasn't charged, so many things wrong with that.

This is not an indictment of TX; this happens in plenty of other states, without redress.

There's nothing OK about using lethal force 'to wound' someone– nothing.

It should be used to defend life, not property.

When someone shoots a thief in the leg(s) and hits the femoral artery and kills or maims him, 'I was just trying to stop him' isn't good enough.

I understand that for a second someone might think 'he deserved that', but that has to pass, and very quickly.

But it can't affect action taken.

And if lethal force is justified, then the duty of the user is to stop the threat.

That is what preserves the safety of one's self or others.

Half-measures that result in innocent people being injured or killed is unacceptable.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: kj
Date: June 15, 2021 07:00PM
Quote
Todd's keyboard
Quote
Rolando
In Texas, you can shoot some one for stealing your car. Dragging the perp...yeah that's hate. (snip)

In an operant-conditioning sense, I suppose shooting someone in the leg while that person is in the act of stealing would be considered negative reinforcement. (An uncomfortable environment exists while the behavior manifests. As soon as the behavior stops, the environment changes to no longer be uncomfortable. Annoying sounds made until a seat belt is fastened is another example of negative reinforcement.)

Dragging someone who is no longer actively stealing would be considered punishment.

From many miles (and another country) away, I'm curious if the judicial system will view it in these terms.

Todd's Skinner-board

Shooting someone (aversive stimulus) that decreases target behavior (stealing) is punishment. Beeping (aversive stimulus) that increases probability of behavior (fastening belt) is negative reinforcement, so you are correct with that one. Dragging someone (aversive stim) that results in a decrease in behavior (stealing) is punishment. Reinforcement results in increased behavior, punishment decrease. Not that anyone actually cares winking smiley

Death decreases the probability of the target behavior occurring, but doesn't count :-)
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 15, 2021 07:07PM
Quote
kj
Death decreases eliminates the probability of the target behavior occurring, but doesn't count :-)

devil smiley
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: kj
Date: June 15, 2021 07:40PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
kj
Death decreases eliminates the probability of the target behavior occurring, but doesn't count :-)

devil smiley

That might be why it doesn't count. It's no longer a matter of probability. It's a certainty.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: davester
Date: June 15, 2021 09:29PM
Quote
RAMd®d
I may be an outlier, but the use of lethal force on an apparent non-violent suspect/criminal is abhorrent.

I grew up in a era where 'as long as you drag him inside' was actual advice from police for citizens shooting fleeing burglary suspects!

Killing someone, or risking killing someone, i.e. using lethal force for stealing stuff isn't, or shouldn't be acceptable to anyone.

Nope, you're not an outlier. I find some of the posts in this thread pretty disgusting. There is no reason to harm another person just because of some stuff. Humiliate them, arrest them, destroy their stuff, sure.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: June 16, 2021 08:01AM
Wow. If Jean Valjean had stolen a loaf of bread in the US instead of France, Les Miserables would have been one very short story.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 16, 2021 10:24AM
I really don't agree with the shooter.

The only time I have EVER pointed a 'gun' at someone was when they were trying to steal my car. And it wasn't a real gun, because I had set the magazine for my match .22 far away from the pistol. So I used a fake dart pistol and screamed the Dirty Harry speech "Do you feel lucky, punk !" at the young man. Who screamed and ran.

Now if I had caught him when he came back the next night and firebombed the building, in retaliation, I might have actually fired on him.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: Buzz
Date: June 16, 2021 02:21PM
Just last week in our 'hood...

Fortunately the neighbors had a heavier duty gate into their property, a few feet inside the alley facade (where the camera is), and that inner gate was/is secured by an industrial U-lock that stymied the crooks.

FYI: Link is to series of motion sensor activated ~35 second clips of video camera footage showing perp w/ bolt cutters, and accomplice, cutting a padlock while trying to break into a house (a few blocks from here) just after midnight 8 days ago.


==



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/16/2021 02:22PM by Buzz.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 16, 2021 02:36PM
Buzz, I'm digging his getaway shoes.

What is amazing to me is that more criminals are not taking advantage of our times and wearing a nicely covering mask.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: Catalytic Converter Thief: The Sequel
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: June 17, 2021 07:48AM
Quote
Buzz
Shooting the perp while actively stealing the part = OK

Dragging the perp after shooting and binding = not so OK

Cat converter on my ancient Buick Regal was stolen way back when. Pissed me off big time. Didn't catch the perp in the act, so no shots fired. Found a guy, that knew a guy, that "repaired" the missing cat situation by piping a piece of exhaust pipe straight thru an empty cat shell to the muffler. Buick actually ran better after that, and managed to pass its smog inspections until it was t-boned by an old-ish Jaguar with an uninsured driver, which rendered the frame bent and irreparable.

These days I don't think a bypassed cat would pass inspection, and they're probably pricier than 40 years ago, and way pricier to fix than back then. I'd be OK with shooting the perp in his legs today, if caught in the act, so that he couldn't get away until the cops, and ambulance came for him. The Washington article said that that perp did try to get away after being shot. Dragging him behind a F-150 was a bit much.
==

Unlike California, in most states there's no visual inspection during emissions testing...just plug in & rely on results reported by the internal computer.

So if someone stole the cat off my vehicle I'd also do the above...plus add a "spacer" to every downstream oxygen sensor to ensure no codes would be set.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 06/17/2021 07:50AM by Bill in NC.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 134
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020