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No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 17, 2021 01:23PM
“ Jack Phillips Of Masterpiece Cakeshop Ordered To Pay Fine For Refusing Transgender Cake Order “


“ A Colorado baker who won a partial victory at the U.S. Supreme Court in 2018 for refusing to make a wedding cake for a same-sex couple violated the state’s anti-discrimination law by refusing to make a birthday cake for a transgender woman, a state judge has ruled.

In Tuesday’s ruling, Denver District Judge A. Bruce Jones said Autumn Scardina was denied a cake that was blue on the outside and pink on the inside to celebrate her gender transition on her birthday because of her transgender status in violation of the law. While Jack Phillips said he could not make the cake because of its message, Jones said the case was about a refusal to sell a product, not compelled speech. “


[denver.cbslocal.com]
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Rolando
Date: June 17, 2021 01:26PM
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 17, 2021 01:28PM
Quote
Rolando
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?

Yeah? That's kinda how it works.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 17, 2021 01:38PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
Rolando
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?

Yeah? That's kinda how it works.

Not if the "hate speech" violates the law. I think that could be considered harrassment under Colorado law.
[law.justia.com]
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 17, 2021 01:43PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
p8712
Quote
Rolando
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?

Yeah? That's kinda how it works.

Not if the "hate speech" violates the law. I think that could be considered harrassment under Colorado law.
[law.justia.com]

Granted. I didn't mean break the law. But if someone orders a hate cake, let them make it. More speech is better than censorship. Even if I don't agree with the message.

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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: davester
Date: June 17, 2021 01:51PM
Quote
Rolando
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?

Sounds to me like that is not the issue. The guy refused to sell a birthday cake decorated with the colors blue and pink because it was to be used to celebrate a gender transition. I don't think there was any "speech" involved, just colors.



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 17, 2021 02:00PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
p8712
Quote
Rolando
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?

Yeah? That's kinda how it works.

Not if the "hate speech" violates the law. I think that could be considered harrassment under Colorado law.
[law.justia.com]

Granted. I didn't mean break the law. But if someone orders a hate cake, let them make it. More speech is better than censorship. Even if I don't agree with the message.


I respectfully disagree. People should not be forced to accept harassment based on their identity. That's why we have hate speech laws, like the one in Colorado.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 17, 2021 02:04PM
Quote
davester
Quote
Rolando
So a gay, etc owned bakery can be compelled to make a hate speech decorated cake?

Sounds to me like that is not the issue. The guy refused to sell a birthday cake decorated with the colors blue and pink because it was to be used to celebrate a gender transition. I don't think there was any "speech" involved, just colors.

I think Rolando means that if this baker is compelled to serve a transgender customer, can a gay baker then be forced to serve an anti-gay customer who orders a cake with an offensive message on it.

I'm curious why the customer picked this rather infamous baker...was it to pick this fight? Not saying that's wrong, just curious.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 17, 2021 02:28PM
Quote

I respectfully disagree. People should not be forced to accept harassment based on their identity. That's why we have hate speech laws, like the one in Colorado.

We're barreling towards authoritarianism Too slippery a slope - I don't want people being told what they can and can't say. You take the bad with the good. Helps me know who to avoid better. Just as making has done.

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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 17, 2021 03:25PM
Censorship is never the right answer, remember the origins of MRF and AppleSwitcher?
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 17, 2021 03:59PM
Quote
RgrF
Censorship is never the right answer, remember the origins of MRF and AppleSwitcher?

Hate speech isn't ok here either.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 17, 2021 04:01PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
RgrF
Censorship is never the right answer, remember the origins of MRF and AppleSwitcher?

Hate speech isn't ok here either.

This ain't 'public'. Not illegal to have a private org that can discriminate(or not) however they please.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Ammo
Date: June 17, 2021 04:56PM
Legalities aside, I don’t understand why anyone would want to eat a cake baked by someone who hates you.



Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 17, 2021 04:57PM
Quote
Ammo
Legalities aside, I don’t understand why anyone would want to eat a cake baked by someone who hates you.

Ingredients might prove interesting.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: August West
Date: June 17, 2021 06:14PM
Quote

...remember the origins of MRF and AppleSwitcher?

Heh, I'm regularly reminded of one of the worst actors on MRF.



Apologies to the anonymous forum member affected by my previous sig pic. It was my personal pic of a country expressing great grief as their leader, one of the most recognized people in the world, lay on his deathbed 8 years ago, days before he died. Like a naif, I did not realize it was offensively political, I considered it an expression of deep emotion and a reminder of the mortal coil's nature; that we all, great and small, can only hope to make a difference in our short time here, no matter the personal cost.

I'll post another pic from my work in South Africa that is, hopefully, apolitical.

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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 17, 2021 08:31PM
I think it's stupid and ignorant to refuse to bake cakes, but at the same time I feel as if a person should have a right to say that something makes them uncomfortable and they don't want to deal with it. What if someone went into a bakery and asked for a cake with a naked Playboy bunny fondling her own giant @#$%&? And the people in the bakery were like, wtf we don't want to make a cake like that. I think that people should be able to say, go somewhere else I am not a fan of this cake idea.



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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: p8712
Date: June 17, 2021 09:23PM
Quote
$tevie
I think it's stupid and ignorant to refuse to bake cakes, but at the same time I feel as if a person should have a right to say that something makes them uncomfortable and they don't want to deal with it. What if someone went into a bakery and asked for a cake with a naked Playboy bunny fondling her own giant @#$%&? And the people in the bakery were like, wtf we don't want to make a cake like that. I think that people should be able to say, go somewhere else I am not a fan of this cake idea.

We have Patrick Stewart for that
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 19, 2021 09:19PM
Quote
$tevie
I think it's stupid and ignorant to refuse to bake cakes, but at the same time I feel as if a person should have a right to say that something makes them uncomfortable and they don't want to deal with it. What if someone went into a bakery and asked for a cake with a naked Playboy bunny fondling her own giant @#$%&? And the people in the bakery were like, wtf we don't want to make a cake like that. I think that people should be able to say, go somewhere else I am not a fan of this cake idea.

Playboy bunnies are not a protected class.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 20, 2021 12:26AM
This just seems like cake-baiting.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 20, 2021 03:37PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
This just seems like cake-baiting.

ftw smiley
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: June 20, 2021 03:59PM
Need a multi-billion federal government grant to design & build an automatic cake-baking machine that will decorate the cake per the 3D CAD design inputted.
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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 20, 2021 11:29PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
$tevie
I think it's stupid and ignorant to refuse to bake cakes, but at the same time I feel as if a person should have a right to say that something makes them uncomfortable and they don't want to deal with it. What if someone went into a bakery and asked for a cake with a naked Playboy bunny fondling her own giant @#$%&? And the people in the bakery were like, wtf we don't want to make a cake like that. I think that people should be able to say, go somewhere else I am not a fan of this cake idea.

Playboy bunnies are not a protected class.
I understand that, but my point is that if something makes you uncomfortable then you shouldn't have to do it. I think that would be a really basic freedom. I can think of tons of things that I wouldn't want to have to do just because the person requesting it is in a protected class.



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Re: No Cake for You! (The Saga Continues...)
Posted by: btfc
Date: June 21, 2021 12:04AM
“Defendants admit that they were willing to make the requested cake until Ms. Scardina identified that she chose the colors to reflect and celebrate her identity as a transgender female,” judge A. Bruce Jones wrote in his ruling. “Defendants are, however, willing to make cakes for non-transgender individuals that reflect that person’s gender. And Defendants would 'gladly' make an identical-looking cake for other customers.”


[www.cpr.org]
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