[www.cnbc.com]

Delta, first identified in India, has the potential "to be more lethal because it's more efficient in the way it transmits between humans and it will eventually find those vulnerable individuals who will become severely ill, have to be hospitalized and potentially die," Dr. Mike Ryan, executive director of the WHO's health emergencies program, said during a news conference.

Delta is now replacing alpha, the highly contagious variant that swept across Europe and later the U.S. earlier this year, Dr. Paul Offit, director of the Vaccine Education Center at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia, said in a recent interview.

Studies suggest it is around 60% more transmissible than alpha, which was more contagious than the original strain that emerged from Wuhan, China, in late 2019.

"We need to vaccinate now. Get everyone vaccinated now," Offit said.

...WHO officials have said there were reports that the delta variant also causes more severe symptoms, but that more research is needed to confirm those conclusions. Still, there are signs the delta strain could provoke different symptoms than other variants.

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The media is not making clear that this is an issue for countries that are far away from reaching anything remotely like 70% vaccinated.
We're not going to get this thing. I guess the folks who refuse to be vaccinated could, but whatever.

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'far away?' You mean like the UK?

It supposedly is more dangerous for children, too.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

I don't think it's going to get the "most vulnerable", so much as the "most stupid" (at least, in this country) ... those individuals who think -- for whatever reason -- that they don't need to get vaccinated. One could say the Darwin Award recipients, except that we're talking a large component of several states, including my own.

It's true that there will be some breakthrough infections, since no vaccine is 100%, but the currently available vaccines look like they'll still be reasonably effective against Delta, and even someone who's vaccinated but still gets it is likely to have a milder clinical course.

And $tevie is right that those countries where we have a really low percentage of vaccinated are going to be in serious trouble. If that didn't affect the rest of us, that'd be one thing... but it will, invariably.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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$tevie
The media is not making clear that this is an issue for countries that are far away from reaching anything remotely like 70% vaccinated.
We're not going to get this thing. I guess the folks who refuse to be vaccinated could, but whatever.

[www.theroot.com]

According to ABC News, the delta variant was first detected in India last October and has been detected in 80 countries since. The strain has already been located in 41 states, and when asked by Good Morning America if she believed it will become the predominant strain in America, Walensky replied “I think that that’s probably going to be the case.”

The CDC has listed the delta strain as a “variant of concern” as it appears to be more contagious and more deadly than prior strains. “When these viruses mutate, they do so with some advantage to the virus. In this case, it is more transmissible,” Walensky said in the interview. “It’s more transmissible than the alpha variant, or the U.K. variant, that we have here. We saw that quickly become the dominant strain in a period of one or two months, and I anticipate that is going to be what happens with the delta strain here.”

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Steve G.
'far away?' You mean like the UK?

Or the US. Those Red States are really not getting vaccinated. And ONLY Vermont is over 70% adults vaccinated with at least one dose.

AND remember that vulnerable children under the age of 11 are not vaccinated.

[www.mayoclinic.org]

Trump's legacy of COVID denial and anti vaccination will produce hundreds of thousands more deaths than the current > 600,000 dead so far. The man is the greatest mass murderer in US history since the Trail of Tears.

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cbelt3
Trump's legacy of COVID denial and anti vaccination will produce hundreds of thousands more deaths than the current > 600,000 dead so far. The man is the greatest mass murderer in US history since the Trail of Tears.

Millions.

People around the world followed his lead.

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$tevie, this Delta variant can still wreck havoc in the US since only 40.5% of us here are fully vaccinated. And as mentioned, our children <12 are all unvaccinated too. CDC is correct in that it will go after the vulnerable/unvaxxed people in our country. Unfortunately, that is a hell of a lot. Viruses go after a host that is the weakest, most vulnerable. The US still stands to lose huge numbers of people. Countries with minimal vaccination percentages will obviously lose many more.

Regardless of things opening up and people's attitudes that "it's over", it is not over.

The good news:
The adult population is 56% fully vaccinated and growing daily. Total population is 45% fully vaccinated.

Children 6 to 12 should be eligible soon but they can be safe if their parents and other caregivers are vaccinated.

A lot of states are over 70% so there is really no chance of another nationwide "wave" given the current variants, since we know the Pfizer and Moderna double dose protects against delta.

Cases are under 16k a day and dropping 30% every 2 weeks. Obviously we want that lower. Deaths are under 300 a day and dropping 25% every 2 weeks. Still too many but given where we were pre-vaccine...it's progress.

The people in hospitals and dying with Covid in the US are unvaccinated.

The more that message gets out, we can drive the vaccine rates up. .

And...even states with lower vaccine rates are seeing huge drop offs in cases and deaths, in some cases more than highly vaccinated places. This is more about lower population density and spending time outdoors. But whatever helps, helps.

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Blurb
$tevie, this Delta variant can still wreck havoc in the US since only 40.5% of us here are fully vaccinated. And as mentioned, our children <12 are all unvaccinated too. CDC is correct in that it will go after the vulnerable/unvaxxed people in our country. Unfortunately, that is a hell of a lot. Viruses go after a host that is the weakest, most vulnerable. The US still stands to lose huge numbers of people. Countries with minimal vaccination percentages will obviously lose many more.

Regardless of things opening up and people's attitudes that "it's over", it is not over.

And therein lies the problem. Nobody wants to tell the public that things are not going to return to normality any time soon... that this will end up being the "new normal". I can already see people tuning out the warnings from experts like Fauci, Walensky, etc. Americans in general have the attention span of a goldfish.

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about people who choose to not get vaccinated when they safely could. It means endangering all of us (and especially me, if I'm honest) because of the prospect of a far worse mutation springing up that the vaccine will have limited efficacy against. I have a five year old grandson that probably won't be eligible for a vaccine for many months and they are endangering him, too, even for already existing variants. That really pisses me off.

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e pluribus unum

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Ted King

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PeterB

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about people who choose to not get vaccinated when they safely could. It means endangering all of us (and especially me, if I'm honest) because of the prospect of a far worse mutation springing up that the vaccine will have limited efficacy against. I have a five year old grandson that probably won't be eligible for a vaccine for many months and they are endangering him, too, even for already existing variants. That really pisses me off.

All of us should be pissed off that these people are being truly selfish, and that we'll all end up having to pay for their selfishness, one way or the other. That's why, to me, taking the attitude of "to hell with them" isn't particularly productive. With any sort of pandemic or catastrophe, the behavior of other people always affects the rest of us ... you'd have thought people would understand that from movies like "Contagion", yet the concept of "what affects the other guy will affect me too" doesn't seem to have penetrated into the American consciousness.

---

Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)

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PeterB

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Ted King

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PeterB

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about people who choose to not get vaccinated when they safely could. It means endangering all of us (and especially me, if I'm honest) because of the prospect of a far worse mutation springing up that the vaccine will have limited efficacy against. I have a five year old grandson that probably won't be eligible for a vaccine for many months and they are endangering him, too, even for already existing variants. That really pisses me off.

All of us should be pissed off that these people are being truly selfish, and that we'll all end up having to pay for their selfishness, one way or the other. That's why, to me, taking the attitude of "to hell with them" isn't particularly productive. With any sort of pandemic or catastrophe, the behavior of other people always affects the rest of us ... you'd have thought people would understand that from movies like "Contagion", yet the concept of "what affects the other guy will affect me too" doesn't seem to have penetrated into the American consciousness.

Those choosing not to be vaccinated simply don’t care about other people. They are in it for themselves, prosperity gospel, etc.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

I heard Slavitt try to segment the unvaccinated in a useful way. From memory, he had:

--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons

--people who think they have medical reasons (who have been previously told by docs that they should not get vaxxed for immune system reasons, whether they have asked their doc again about COVID.) I know a couple of people like this.

--people who are fully in the Trumpy place.

--people who are truly stressed in work and family and cannot really prioritize. (They will do it if you bring the van to where they are.) He mentioned California farm workers in this group

--people who just cannot be bothered. This is the 20-something group they are using lottery incentives to attract. Slavitt said of his own son that he would not cross the street for a vaccine, but would 'walk 2 miles for a free Subway sandwich.'

Most of our ire is reserved for the Trumpy people but they are not really the whole situation. Each of the groups needs a different strategy.

that seems like a pretty good breakdown of the overall group - this is not a homogenized bunch.

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numbered
I heard Slavitt try to segment the unvaccinated in a useful way. From memory, he had:

--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons

--people who think they have medical reasons (who have been previously told by docs that they should not get vaxxed for immune system reasons, whether they have asked their doc again about COVID.) I know a couple of people like this.

--people who are fully in the Trumpy place.

--people who are truly stressed in work and family and cannot really prioritize. (They will do it if you bring the van to where they are.) He mentioned California farm workers in this group

--people who just cannot be bothered. This is the 20-something group they are using lottery incentives to attract. Slavitt said of his own son that he would not cross the street for a vaccine, but would 'walk 2 miles for a free Subway sandwich.'

Most of our ire is reserved for the Trumpy people but they are not really the whole situation. Each of the groups needs a different strategy.

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hal
that seems like a pretty good breakdown of the overall group - this is not a homogenized bunch.

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numbered
I heard Slavitt try to segment the unvaccinated in a useful way. From memory, he had:

--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons

--people who think they have medical reasons (who have been previously told by docs that they should not get vaxxed for immune system reasons, whether they have asked their doc again about COVID.) I know a couple of people like this.

--people who are fully in the Trumpy place.

--people who are truly stressed in work and family and cannot really prioritize. (They will do it if you bring the van to where they are.) He mentioned California farm workers in this group

--people who just cannot be bothered. This is the 20-something group they are using lottery incentives to attract. Slavitt said of his own son that he would not cross the street for a vaccine, but would 'walk 2 miles for a free Subway sandwich.'

Most of our ire is reserved for the Trumpy people but they are not really the whole situation. Each of the groups needs a different strategy.

Agreed ... although I don't really understand the difference between the first and third groups, as I would think they overlap greatly. And the second group, that's a crucial one, because it might turn out that those are exactly the people who SHOULD be vaccinated. It's important for them to understand that none of the currently available vaccines are live or attenuated virus ... [creakyjoints.org]

Edit-- oh, and I would add a sixth category: people who are just afraid of this particular vaccine/all vaccines/shots in general ... they're not really anti-vax (so not in the first category), not necessarily Trumpers (so not in the third category), and not really in the fifth category because it's not that they can't be bothered, they've just been scared by things in the media about the vaccines and/or just scared of vaccines/getting a shot. They're motivated less by selfishness and more by true fear.

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Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/22/2021 03:47PM by PeterB.

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PeterB

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Ted King

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PeterB

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about people who choose to not get vaccinated when they safely could. It means endangering all of us (and especially me, if I'm honest) because of the prospect of a far worse mutation springing up that the vaccine will have limited efficacy against. I have a five year old grandson that probably won't be eligible for a vaccine for many months and they are endangering him, too, even for already existing variants. That really pisses me off.

All of us should be pissed off that these people are being truly selfish, and that we'll all end up having to pay for their selfishness, one way or the other. That's why, to me, taking the attitude of "to hell with them" isn't particularly productive. With any sort of pandemic or catastrophe, the behavior of other people always affects the rest of us ... you'd have thought people would understand that from movies like "Contagion", yet the concept of "what affects the other guy will affect me too" doesn't seem to have penetrated into the American consciousness.

Those choosing not to be vaccinated simply don’t care about other people. They are in it for themselves, prosperity gospel, etc.

Saying untrue things doesn't help anything People are misguided, and I can't hardly blame people, to some extent, for having difficulty knowing who to trust. I've had two actual M.D.s tell me for one not to get vaccinated yet, and second that the reaction to covid was way overblown. People are supposed to be able to trust medical doctors, but in this broken world...

My dad was over, huge Trumper, we spent 4hrs. talking about this stuff, mixed with other crazy stuff, and now he says he's going to get vaccinated. He's well intentioned, but misguided in many ways, and working though some of it seemed to make a difference.

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kj

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Speedy

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PeterB

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Ted King

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PeterB

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about people who choose to not get vaccinated when they safely could. It means endangering all of us (and especially me, if I'm honest) because of the prospect of a far worse mutation springing up that the vaccine will have limited efficacy against. I have a five year old grandson that probably won't be eligible for a vaccine for many months and they are endangering him, too, even for already existing variants. That really pisses me off.

All of us should be pissed off that these people are being truly selfish, and that we'll all end up having to pay for their selfishness, one way or the other. That's why, to me, taking the attitude of "to hell with them" isn't particularly productive. With any sort of pandemic or catastrophe, the behavior of other people always affects the rest of us ... you'd have thought people would understand that from movies like "Contagion", yet the concept of "what affects the other guy will affect me too" doesn't seem to have penetrated into the American consciousness.

Those choosing not to be vaccinated simply don’t care about other people. They are in it for themselves, prosperity gospel, etc.

Saying untrue things doesn't help anything People are misguided, and I can't hardly blame people, to some extent, for having difficulty knowing who to trust. I've had two actual M.D.s tell me for one not to get vaccinated yet, and second that the reaction to covid was way overblown. People are supposed to be able to trust medical doctors, but in this broken world...

My dad was over, huge Trumper, we spent 4hrs. talking about this stuff, mixed with other crazy stuff, and now he says he's going to get vaccinated. He's well intentioned, but misguided in many ways, and working though some of it seemed to make a difference.

Trump getting vax'd and trying to take credit for the vaccination effort SHOULD have helped you'd think.

--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons


The above people are absolutely not all Trump people, if that's what was meant.

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kj
--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons


The above people are absolutely not all Trump people, if that's what was meant.

yes, I agree - the 'Gates' group of full of liberals

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hal

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kj

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Speedy

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PeterB

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Ted King

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PeterB

I think there are simply too many variables at this point to say that Delta isn't going to affect us all that much. For example, the fact that Delta will continue to mutate, so long as there are hosts in which it can replicate.

This is the most frustrating thing for me about people who choose to not get vaccinated when they safely could. It means endangering all of us (and especially me, if I'm honest) because of the prospect of a far worse mutation springing up that the vaccine will have limited efficacy against. I have a five year old grandson that probably won't be eligible for a vaccine for many months and they are endangering him, too, even for already existing variants. That really pisses me off.

All of us should be pissed off that these people are being truly selfish, and that we'll all end up having to pay for their selfishness, one way or the other. That's why, to me, taking the attitude of "to hell with them" isn't particularly productive. With any sort of pandemic or catastrophe, the behavior of other people always affects the rest of us ... you'd have thought people would understand that from movies like "Contagion", yet the concept of "what affects the other guy will affect me too" doesn't seem to have penetrated into the American consciousness.

Those choosing not to be vaccinated simply don’t care about other people. They are in it for themselves, prosperity gospel, etc.

Saying untrue things doesn't help anything People are misguided, and I can't hardly blame people, to some extent, for having difficulty knowing who to trust. I've had two actual M.D.s tell me for one not to get vaccinated yet, and second that the reaction to covid was way overblown. People are supposed to be able to trust medical doctors, but in this broken world...

My dad was over, huge Trumper, we spent 4hrs. talking about this stuff, mixed with other crazy stuff, and now he says he's going to get vaccinated. He's well intentioned, but misguided in many ways, and working though some of it seemed to make a difference.

Trump getting vax'd and trying to take credit for the vaccination effort SHOULD have helped you'd think.

Yeah, you would kind of think so. The Trumpers I know don't actually seem to like or trust him. It's odd. There is definitely a lot of mistrust going on in their heads.

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hal

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kj
--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons


The above people are absolutely not all Trump people, if that's what was meant.

yes, I agree - the 'Gates' group of full of liberals

Yeah, I think there is some overlap with the alternative medicine crowd. I have mixed feelings about the usefulness of "categories", in general, so idk. It reminds me of psychiatry where a lot of people literally have 6 diagnoses. He's a little MR, DD, Schizophrenic, Anti-social personality, etc. To me, he was just Frank, and there ain't no one else like Frank.

--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons


The above people are absolutely not all Trump people, if that's what was meant.


I didn't see that as meaning all 45* people, whether it did or not.

Except for the nano bit, that category existed before 45*, and the nano bit would have been worrisome to those in that category, had it been advanced by anybody.

That category could have been just anti any kind of vax for any reason.

I think someone in that group would find a reason to be anti for even the most innocuous vaccine.

Because they're a scorpion.

---

I am that Masked Man.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

As I see it, the real danger with any future wave, no matter how virulent, is that the shotgun is empty - no matter how bad it may get we'll never see lock-down used again.

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RgrF
As I see it, the real danger with any future wave, no matter how virulent, is that the shotgun is empty - no matter how bad it may get we'll never see lock-down used again.

I agree. I don't know anyone representing any side who is real thrilled at the prospect of another lock-down. I have to admit myself that I believe it might cause more damage than the virus at some point.

OK, no lockdown because we are wusses and gubmint can't tell me what to do, the consequence being that the newer, more virulent and deadly strain takes out another 500,000 people.

Just because of our selfishness.

---

The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa

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RAMd®d
--people who are anti any kind of vax for Gates/nano/autism/bodily fluids reasons


The above people are absolutely not all Trump people, if that's what was meant.


I didn't see that as meaning all 45* people, whether it did or not.

Except for the nano bit, that category existed before 45*, and the nano bit would have been worrisome to those in that category, had it been advanced by anybody.

I had a friend in this group email me the day that IBM announced their 4nm line width technology and this friend was certain the announcement was linked to Gates and vaccines...

As the old saying goes, 'I am not making this up.'

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Sam3
OK, no lockdown because we are wusses and gubmint can't tell me what to do, the consequence being that the newer, more virulent and deadly strain takes out another 500,000 people.

Just because of our selfishness.

I'll give you an example of my selfishness. I feel bad for the probably close to 100 elderly people I actually know through work who did not see anyone for 9mos. Meals left outside the door, no opportunity to go outside. All of the young people I know who can't pay rent, moving back in with family if they have that option, patients who could not do vital medical procedures etc. I even was served at restaurants (outside) at some point by servers who literally cried while serving us. Not doing lockdown has a cost, but lockdown also has enormous negative consequences. And slandering those who recognize there is a cost to lockdown is just irrational. If you can afford to stay locked in your house for another year, that's a type of privilege, I'm afraid. I'm fine, but I know an awful lot of people who just can't afford it. Like, really.