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Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 28, 2021 02:18PM
[www.marketwatch.com]

The study, conducted by researchers at Washington University in St. Louis, suggests that people vaccinated with those shots may not need boosters, as long as the virus does not mutate or give rise to new vaccine-resistant variants...

facepalm



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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: neophyte
Date: June 28, 2021 02:40PM
So it's kinda like my freezer which died this weekend... it works until a part changes, then it no longer works. Gotcha.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 28, 2021 02:55PM
This is excellent news. We already know the Pfizer vaccine is effective against delta. Moderna should be too, waiting on the data.

Given that we still have a way to go in getting the world vaccinated, it is excellent news that we're not likely to need a booster.

Keep the focus on getting initial shots in arms.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: rgG
Date: June 28, 2021 03:00PM
That is good news.
The disclaimer is a CYA, IMHO.
Of course the virus could always mutate so much that they aren’t effective, but good to know the protection for the original virus seems to stay for a long time.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 28, 2021 03:02PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is excellent news. We already know the Pfizer vaccine is effective against delta...

Do we?

[fortune.com]

Israeli health officials are returning to mask mandates at indoor facilities following a small spate of positive COVID Delta variant cases in adults who had been fully vaccinated with Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine. That is, these adults had received two doses of the vaccine, and it had been two weeks since their second dose, the generally accepted timeline for full vaccination.

The Delta variant has rapidly become the main source of new COVID cases in certain parts of the globe including India and the U.K. It also makes up an increasing share of new cases in the U.S., clustered in states with low vaccination rates. The mutation, originally identified in India, appears to be far more transmissible than the novel coronavirus and could be a particular threat to younger people.

In Israel, expert advisers to the government estimate that about 90% of new cases are linked to the Delta variant, according to the Wall Street Journal. About half of the Delta variant cases examined by experts occurred in children under the age of 16 who haven't been vaccinated. But about half of adults who were infected in this outbreak were fully immunized with the COVID vaccine.




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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 28, 2021 04:22PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is excellent news. We already know the Pfizer vaccine is effective against delta...

Do we?

[fortune.com]

Israeli health officials are returning to mask mandates at indoor facilities following a small spate of positive COVID Delta variant cases in adults who had been fully vaccinated with Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine. That is, these adults had received two doses of the vaccine, and it had been two weeks since their second dose, the generally accepted timeline for full vaccination.

The Delta variant has rapidly become the main source of new COVID cases in certain parts of the globe including India and the U.K. It also makes up an increasing share of new cases in the U.S., clustered in states with low vaccination rates. The mutation, originally identified in India, appears to be far more transmissible than the novel coronavirus and could be a particular threat to younger people.

In Israel, expert advisers to the government estimate that about 90% of new cases are linked to the Delta variant, according to the Wall Street Journal. About half of the Delta variant cases examined by experts occurred in children under the age of 16 who haven't been vaccinated. But about half of adults who were infected in this outbreak were fully immunized with the COVID vaccine.

Yes, we have evidence via clinical study that Pfizer is protective against delta.

[www.fiercepharma.com]
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 28, 2021 04:53PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
This is excellent news. We already know the Pfizer vaccine is effective against delta...

Do we?

[fortune.com]

Israeli health officials are returning to mask mandates at indoor facilities following a small spate of positive COVID Delta variant cases in adults who had been fully vaccinated with Pfizer's coronavirus vaccine. That is, these adults had received two doses of the vaccine, and it had been two weeks since their second dose, the generally accepted timeline for full vaccination.

The Delta variant has rapidly become the main source of new COVID cases in certain parts of the globe including India and the U.K. It also makes up an increasing share of new cases in the U.S., clustered in states with low vaccination rates. The mutation, originally identified in India, appears to be far more transmissible than the novel coronavirus and could be a particular threat to younger people.

In Israel, expert advisers to the government estimate that about 90% of new cases are linked to the Delta variant, according to the Wall Street Journal. About half of the Delta variant cases examined by experts occurred in children under the age of 16 who haven't been vaccinated. But about half of adults who were infected in this outbreak were fully immunized with the COVID vaccine.

Yes, we have evidence via clinical study that Pfizer is protective against delta.

[www.fiercepharma.com]

Protective in the sense that most of the vaccinated will avoid hospitalization and death from Delta. That doesn't mean that lots of vaccinated people are not getting COVID, and it doesn't mean that those vaccinated who get COVID will suffer no ill-effects and will not have lingering effects haunting them for years.

And it was a"pre-print" with no peer-review.
[khub.net]

And they haven't looked at the Delta plus variants.

...But you go ahead and have fun.



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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 28, 2021 06:33PM
Israel reported 106 cases on June 26. Less than half the previous day. No WSJ clickbait article on that. At the peaks of their outbreaks there were upwards of 7k cases per day


Let's wait for large scale data before deciding that what we have been told, that the mRNA vaccines are protective against the variants of concern, is not true.

There is no place on earth where "lots of vaccinated people" are getting COVID.

The way to protect yourself from delta and its cousins is to get an mRNA vaccine.

It's the UNvaccinated people who need to worry. A lot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 06:34PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 28, 2021 07:14PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
There is no place on earth where "lots of vaccinated people" are getting COVID.

[www.cdc.gov]

Hospitalized or fatal vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC 4,115

CDC does not report on cases not hospitalized or fatal.

4,000+ hospitalized and at least 750 fatal breakthrough cases in the U.S. seems like lots to me. Each one is a human life that could have been saved.



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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 28, 2021 07:31PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
There is no place on earth where "lots of vaccinated people" are getting COVID.

[www.cdc.gov]

Hospitalized or fatal vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC 4,115

CDC does not report on cases not hospitalized or fatal.

4,000+ hospitalized and at least 750 fatal breakthrough cases in the U.S. seems like lots to me. Each one is a human life that could have been saved.

Saved how? They died from COVID. We have no cure for COVID.

Over 600k americans have died from covid. But now that we have vaccines people can keep themselves safe. Fewer than 100 deaths were reported yesterday. Most deaths are in unvaccinated people. Cases drop 20% a day.

The breakthrough rate is as predicted from the original clinical trials of the vaccines.

Nobody ever promised 100%. To expect it is not rational.

Celebrate all the people who are ALIVE and healthy because we have vaccines. .
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 28, 2021 07:58PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Saved how? They died from COVID.

Proper use of masks and social distancing and hand-cleaning, responsible leadership from the federal government early on in the pandemic, governors and legislatures that prioritize the lives of their constituents, responsible employers and clerics, and International cooperation.

Among other things.



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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: August West
Date: June 28, 2021 09:20PM
Quote

Among other things.

Like whirled peas?



“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: PeterB
Date: June 28, 2021 10:56PM
Actually, one of the most disturbing things about Delta and Delta plus to me, is the fact that treatment with antibody therapy seems to be less effective. So, someone like me who has been immunized but maybe gets a breakthrough infection, and needs treatment -- which would typically be antibody therapy-based -- it's not as likely to help me.

I agree that we need additional treatments, beyond just immunization/vaccination (not that we shouldn't be doing that too, just that we need additional lines of defense). I'd like to see targeting the individual viral proteins with inhibitors, much as we do with the triple cocktail for HIV.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/28/2021 10:57PM by PeterB.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Diana
Date: June 29, 2021 12:01AM
Also, keep in mind that the (immunized) parents of these kids now getting covid are getting, in some or even in most cases, massive amounts of viral load until the kid is either over it in the case of home confinement, or until the kid goes into the hospital. Delta is more transmissible, and thus more contagious and assumedly more infectious. When the load exceeds what the immune system can handle, disease results.

It’s not like mom and dad can simply lock the kid into his room and shove food under the door, diligently disinfecting and staying as far away as possible.

So yeah, the current reservoir of unvaccinated include kids under 15 (or is it 18?). It ain’t over yet.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 29, 2021 12:30AM
So yeah, the current reservoir of unvaccinated include kids under 15 (or is it 18?). It ain’t over yet.

It's age 12 here in California. Even now that vaccines have put a serious crimp on death totals, no one knows what the long term health detriment will be for various classes of survivors. It'll take years or decades for that sort of reliable info to emerge, the variants won't wait like we will.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: June 29, 2021 08:13AM
As someone who gets a flu shot every year and has gotten influenza a few times....

Life, uh, finds a way. This includes viruses.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 29, 2021 08:38AM
Quote
Diana
Also, keep in mind that the (immunized) parents of these kids now getting covid are getting, in some or even in most cases, massive amounts of viral load until the kid is either over it in the case of home confinement, or until the kid goes into the hospital. Delta is more transmissible, and thus more contagious and assumedly more infectious. When the load exceeds what the immune system can handle, disease results.

It’s not like mom and dad can simply lock the kid into his room and shove food under the door, diligently disinfecting and staying as far away as possible.

So yeah, the current reservoir of unvaccinated include kids under 15 (or is it 18?). It ain’t over yet.

Breakthrough infections leading to hospitalization and death, which are very rare, are primarily in seniors, not parents of school aged kids. It is the unvaccinated parents at high risk, not the vaccinated ones. While we wait for vaccine approval for kids under 12, we need parents to get immunized to keep themselves and their children safe.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 29, 2021 10:24AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Breakthrough infections leading to hospitalization and death, which are very rare, are primarily in seniors, not parents of school aged kids. It is the unvaccinated parents at high risk, not the vaccinated ones. While we wait for vaccine approval for kids under 12, we need parents to get immunized to keep themselves and their children safe.

Wear a mask.



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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 29, 2021 11:09AM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
Breakthrough infections leading to hospitalization and death, which are very rare, are primarily in seniors, not parents of school aged kids. It is the unvaccinated parents at high risk, not the vaccinated ones. While we wait for vaccine approval for kids under 12, we need parents to get immunized to keep themselves and their children safe.

Wear a mask.

Get vaccinated.

I've never stopped wearing a mask in stores.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Janit
Date: June 29, 2021 12:41PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
Breakthrough infections leading to hospitalization and death, which are very rare, are primarily in seniors, not parents of school aged kids. It is the unvaccinated parents at high risk, not the vaccinated ones. While we wait for vaccine approval for kids under 12, we need parents to get immunized to keep themselves and their children safe.

Wear a mask.

Get vaccinated.

I've never stopped wearing a mask in stores.

This is a situation in which a belt AND suspenders are warranted.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 29, 2021 01:15PM
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
There is no place on earth where "lots of vaccinated people" are getting COVID.

[www.cdc.gov]

Hospitalized or fatal vaccine breakthrough cases reported to CDC 4,115

CDC does not report on cases not hospitalized or fatal.

4,000+ hospitalized and at least 750 fatal breakthrough cases in the U.S. seems like lots to me. Each one is a human life that could have been saved.

4115/15,000,000 = 0.00027433 = 0.027433% chance of infection/hospitalization if fully vaccinated.

750/15,000,000 = 0.00005 = 0.005% chance of infection/death if fully vaccinated.

The math is in our favor. As Lemon Drop said, there are no absolute guarantees.

The people who should be worried are those who insist on remaining unvaccinated.



It is what it is.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: June 29, 2021 01:16PM
Quote
Janit
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Sarcany
Quote
Lemon Drop
Breakthrough infections leading to hospitalization and death, which are very rare, are primarily in seniors, not parents of school aged kids. It is the unvaccinated parents at high risk, not the vaccinated ones. While we wait for vaccine approval for kids under 12, we need parents to get immunized to keep themselves and their children safe.

Wear a mask.

Get vaccinated.

I've never stopped wearing a mask in stores.

This is a situation in which a belt AND suspenders are warranted.

On top of a mask? Damn, this COVID thing is a pain in the ass!



It is what it is.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2021 12:50PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: June 29, 2021 07:49PM
Another article I read on this pointed out that you have to look at not at what percentage of those infected with Delta have the full vaccination, but also at what the total number of people fully vaccinated is, and compare that with the number infected--that shows the breadth of the protection.
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Re: Study finds Pfizer and Moderna vaccines may offer COVID protection for years, with one BIG caveat...
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: June 29, 2021 08:08PM
Quote
anonymouse1
Another article I read on this pointed out that you have to look at not at what percentage of those infected with Delta have the full vaccination, but also at what the total number of people fully vaccinated is, and compare that with the number infected--that shows the breadth of the protection.


The only way to evaluate the effectiveness of the vaccine against the Delta variant is to test for exposure to the Delta variant and look at the number of breakthroughs in that context.

Since we seldom test for exposure and almost never test for specific variants in this country, we need to look to other countries for guidance.

This is what you get when you do that:
[www.theguardian.com]

In general, Covid jabs are most effective against the most severe outcomes, such as death, and less effective against less severe ones, such as asymptomatic infection.

According to figures gathered by Public Health Scotland and published in the Lancet, at least two weeks after the second dose of Covid jabs, protection against infection fell from 92% for the Alpha variant to 79% against the Delta variant for the Pfizer/BioNTech vaccine, while for the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine the protection fell from 73% to 60% respectively.

...According to an analysis by PHE, the Pfizer/BioNTech jab was linked to a 94% vaccine effectiveness against hospital admission with the Delta variant after one dose and 96% after two doses, while the figures for the Oxford/AstraZeneca jab were 71% and 92% respectively.

This protection against hospital admission is similar to that for the Alpha variant, for which the Pfizer figures were 83% and 95% after the first and second jabs respectively, and 76% and 86% respectively for the AstraZeneca jab.


If we assume that the J&J offers similar protection as AZ (big "if" but we have almost no public info on J&J's efficacy) then we're looking at maybe 60% effectiveness at preventing infection and 71% against hospital admission once infected.

It should be noted that the FDA has a hard cutoff of 50% effectiveness in their guidance for approval of "safe and effective" COVID vaccines.



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