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New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 09, 2021 09:22AM
NYT:

Quote

People across the country may soon be able to sue abortion clinics, doctors and anyone helping a woman get an abortion in Texas, under a new state law

Yuppers; some nut in Idaho will be able to sue the unwitting Uber driver in Texas that gives a ride to a woman the nut has never met to have an abortion at 7 weeks (ie 3 weeks after a first missed period.) And if they win in court?

Quote

It awards [such a plaintiff] at least $10,000 per illegal abortion if they are successful.

This sounds so outrageous one might assume I’m making it up. I’m not. It’s not a proposed law; it’s already passed, and takes effect September 1.

Quote

“If the barista at Starbucks overhears you talking about your abortion, and it was performed after six weeks, that barista is authorized to sue the clinic where you obtained the abortion and to sue any other person who helped you, like the Uber driver who took you there,” said Melissa Murray, a law professor at New York University.

Why would such a legally nonsensical law get passed? Well, Texas, and abortion, plus it takes the state off the hook:

Quote

Lawyers for the clinics argue that a six-week abortion ban is clearly unconstitutional, and the Texas law is designed to insulate the state from a challenge.

Hey, it’s not us, says the state; it’s this guy in Idaho (civilly suing under our law). Go sue him to invalidate the suit, or any of the other thousands of nuts and/or grifters looking for a way to score $10K.

Not to worry;

Quote

Mr. Seago [legislative director for Texas Right to Life] said he did not think there would be a flood of suits.

Riiight. RollingEyesSmiley5 That’s why you pushed this through - so it wouldn’t be used.

The Supreme Court needs to make up it’s mind. Is Roe still the law of the land, or not? If so, they need to stop this endless parade of clearly unconstitutional laws passed to posture to an ideologue base.

If not, then welcome (back) to the back alley, ma’am.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 09, 2021 09:33AM
A pregnant girl out for a ride with her dad is liable to be arrested. Maybe be him too.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 09, 2021 09:34AM
It's all about keeping the LIBS upset.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Janit
Date: July 09, 2021 09:56AM
Quote
Dennis S
A pregnant girl out for a ride with her dad is liable to be arrested. Maybe be him too.

Soon all women will need to produce a negative pregnancy test before anyone will give them a ride. I expect this will extend to any form of transportation, including a train ride to the next state.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2021 01:11PM by Janit.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 09, 2021 10:14AM
"Standing, sometimes referred to as standing to sue, is the name of the federal law doctrine that focuses on whether a prospective plaintiff can show that some personal legal interest has been invaded by the defendant. It is not enough that a person is merely interested as a member of the general public in the resolution of the dispute. The person must have a personal stake in the outcome of the controversy."

[legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com]

Can standing be granted by legislative fiat?
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 09, 2021 10:15AM
In the old days, bringing suit required proving you were “harmed,” not someone else.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2021 10:16AM by deckeda.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 09, 2021 10:17AM
Quote
Acer
"Standing, sometimes referred to as standing to sue, is the name of the federal law doctrine that focuses on whether a prospective plaintiff can show that some personal legal interest has been invaded by the defendant. It is not enough that a person is merely interested as a member of the general public in the resolution of the dispute. The person must have a personal stake in the outcome of the controversy."

[legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com]

Can standing be granted by legislative fiat?

I think their personal stake is defined here as, “I don’t like it.”
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 09, 2021 10:20AM
Can standing be granted by legislative fiat?

Yes. A branch of government that represents the "will of the people" has automatic standing before the court.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 09, 2021 10:39AM
Quote
RgrF
Can standing be granted by legislative fiat?

Yes. In state courts, standing is determined under the laws of the state.



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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 09, 2021 01:21PM
Quote
Janit
Quote
Dennis S
A pregnant girl out for a ride with her dad is liable to be arrested. Maybe be him too.

Soon all women will need to produce a negative pregnancy test before anyone will give them a ride. I expect this will extend to any form of transportation, including a train ride to the next state.

There's a real scary ad showing a dad trying to get his daughter to the next state and getting stopped by the police.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 09, 2021 01:32PM
Let me get this straight. In Texas it is nobody's business if you want to own and carry around lots of guns, but it is everybody's business if you have an unplanned pregnancy and choose not to continue it.

Yes this makes sense.
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The Handmaid's Tale
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 09, 2021 02:30PM
There's a real scary ad showing a dad trying to get his daughter to the next state and getting stopped by the police.


I've only skimmed the article and haven't seen the ad.

But it boggles my mind to consider how an arrest might come about, barring a 'concerned citizen' reporting the intention of a driver and passenger.

My imagination leaps to scenarios of traffic stops of female passengers seen as 'probably cause' for a stop, or police at borders pulling cars over with female occupants who might be 'likely' to be pregnant and leave the state for an abortion.

Proof of non-pregnancy to leave the state?

Blood tests on suspected violators?

And what of some girl/woman who evades the D&C police, gets to another state, is treated and returns to TX.

If found out, does she face criminal charges?

Is it a crime for an OK, NM, or CA clinic to treat a TX resident?

Maybe the answers are already in the NYT article but I'm a little incensed to do more than gloss over, at the moment.

Ok, most if not all of that may be very unlikely, but before reading this thread now, I wouldn't have consider any state passing p@#$%&# comitatus legislation.

Talk about spinning out of control.

I have to wonder how the citizenry of TX feel about this.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

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all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

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by believing all possible evil of evil men.

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An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 09, 2021 04:55PM
Dark Ages meets the Handmaid Tale.

And if you don't think we are heading that way, then you are in serious denial.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: The Handmaid's Tale
Posted by: Diana
Date: July 09, 2021 05:01PM
This just begs for groups of “concerned citizens” to hang around known abortion clinics getting license tags of individuals stopping and going inside. If I still lived in Texas, and my friend asked me to take her, I still wouldn’t hesitate AS IT ISN’T MY DECISION as to how she lives her life, only to help a fellow human in need. This just begs to be taken to the Supremes.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 09, 2021 05:10PM
Just avoid living in TX. or any other state with similar policies and laws.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Ted King
Date: July 09, 2021 05:31PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Let me get this straight. In Texas it is nobody's business if you want to own and carry around lots of guns, but it is everybody's business if you have an unplanned pregnancy and choose not to continue it.

Yes this makes sense.

smiley-score010



e pluribus unum
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 09, 2021 06:20PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Lemon Drop
Let me get this straight. In Texas it is nobody's business if you want to own and carry around lots of guns, but it is everybody's business if you have an unplanned pregnancy and choose not to continue it.

Yes this makes sense.

smiley-score010

Hey, it's Republican logic, right up there with "we won't pay for birth control, but once it is born, you're financially responsible for the child for 18 years" and "we're against abortion, but in favor of the death penalty!"

An old article, but still relevant, and interesting in relation to what has happened since it was written: [www.salon.com]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2021 06:20PM by PeterB.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 09, 2021 06:31PM
fsck republicans
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 09, 2021 09:53PM
Quote
space-time
fsck republicans

That works because Republicans can afford to go to another state. Just don’t get a poor Democrat pregnant.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2021 09:54PM by Speedy.
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Re: New Texas anti-abortion law: what could possibly go wrong?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 10, 2021 05:41AM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
space-time
fsck republicans

That works because Republicans can afford to go to another state. Just don’t get a poor Democrat pregnant.

Except the Republican base is just as poor (and not nearly as intelligent). Of course, they are also socially inept and may not be capable of sustainable reproduction.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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