mobility + mortality


Out grocery shopping, saw a number of electric riding scooters/ mopeds, growing more popular every day. Every single person riding one (sometimes with a passenger) had no helmet. They were going 15-20mph.

They are, of course, not licensed and I'll bet w/ no insurance, either.

Death? Injury? Damage? A new type of stupid invented every day!

Seattle allows them, and the e-scooters, without helmets. People ride in the bicycle lane. BOTH are against the law according to Washington State law. E-bikes are allowed, but still must wear helmets.

My disgust for politicians who ignore laws that are inconvenient knows no bounds.

---

********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

[www.youtube.com]

IMHO scooters (sitting or standing configuration) are inherently more dangerous than motorcycles or bicycles which the rider straddles.

A scooter can much more easily tip to the side and out of control because the rider has only the handle bars to control its orientation, not their torso and legs.

---

When they're left in the middle of the sidewalk, I toss the scooters and e-bikes into the middle of the street. If there's parking on the street, I'll tuck 'em under the biggest SUV or pickup truck I can find. I've even hooked a few into the parking gates of adjacent buildings with gated parking garages. When riders use 'em on sidewalks, I block 'em, or knock 'em "accidentally" with my heavy duty walker. Tandem and/or no helmets are fair game for my car doors. Ditto for bare feet or sandals. It is my personal goal to be irresponsible scooter's and e-biker's worst nightmare.

The effin companies bribe the city bureaucrats hundreds of thousands of dollars to operate everywhere. We need to put some laws on the books that hold the companies, and city politicos liable for all mishaps and injuries occurring because of improper use. Law abiding riders, with helmets and shoes that follow all applicable traffic laws would be covered for thier mishaps, too. Miscreants that flout the laws should be co-liable with the companies and the city politicos.

In case there's any doubt; I don't like 'em.
At all.
==

Is that Mr. Frodo?

Quote
Buzz
Tandem and/or no helmets are fair game for my car doors. Ditto for bare feet or sandals. It is my personal goal to be irresponsible scooter's and e-biker's worst nightmare.

Sorry, but violence is NOT okay. Even if they annoy you.

Quote
Buzz
When they're left in the middle of the sidewalk, I toss the scooters and e-bikes into the middle of the street. If there's parking on the street, I'll tuck 'em under the biggest SUV or pickup truck I can find. I've even hooked a few into the parking gates of adjacent buildings with gated parking garages. When riders use 'em on sidewalks, I block 'em, or knock 'em "accidentally" with my heavy duty walker. Tandem and/or no helmets are fair game for my car doors. Ditto for bare feet or sandals. It is my personal goal to be irresponsible scooter's and e-biker's worst nightmare.

The effin companies bribe the city bureaucrats hundreds of thousands of dollars to operate everywhere. We need to put some laws on the books that hold the companies, and city politicos liable for all mishaps and injuries occurring because of improper use. Law abiding riders, with helmets and shoes that follow all applicable traffic laws would be covered for thier mishaps, too. Miscreants that flout the laws should be co-liable with the companies and the city politicos.

In case there's any doubt; I don't like 'em.
At all.
==

Belligerent much? Are you equally upset with the mass quantities of cars and trucks that occupy much of the surface area of our roads and cause mass carnage every day?

What is all the bellyache about helmets? For scooters that max out at about the speed of a fast run they are not necessary unless perhaps you're riding in a traffic lane with very fast traffic. Should we make runners wear helmets too? The rest of the world laughs at the silly americans and their helmet laws*

*Full disclosure: I am an avid cyclist and wear helmets on most of my rides where I'm mixing it up with fast traffic and reaching downhill speeds of 20+ mph. For riding neighborhood streets or to the grocery store helmets are totally unnecessary.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2021 03:23PM by davester.

I ride an e-trike WITH a helmet.

---

Central VA

Davester, necessary or not, helmets are required by law in Washington State. Just ignoring a law because it is inconvenient isn't the way an entire city is supposed to be run.

Yeah, I know, that NFA of 1934 preventing me from just buying a full auto Thompson sub gun really bugs me, but I still obey the law, until it gets changed.

---

********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
Racer X
Davester, necessary or not, helmets are required by law in Washington State. Just ignoring a law because it is inconvenient isn't the way an entire city is supposed to be run.

Only true for devices with motors capable of exceeding 20 mph under power. All others (i.e. most scooters and e-bikes) are only required to follow WA bicycle helmet laws (i.e. no helmets required) and may use bike lanes. [www.dmv.org] [wsdot.wa.gov]

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/13/2021 10:52AM by davester.

When they're left in the middle of the sidewalk, I toss the scooters and e-bikes into the middle of the street.

what about cars that get damaged because you tossed scooters in the middle of the street?

If there's parking on the street, I'll tuck 'em under the biggest SUV or pickup truck I can find.

What about damaged to that SUV or Pickup truck when the back off the parking spot and the object gets stuck and rips off their under car components?

I've even hooked a few into the parking gates of adjacent buildings with gated parking garages.

How do you get in, do you have legal access or are you trespassing?

I will stop here. You get my point. I hope you were joking. Yes, I understand they annoy you and I agree with our feelings, but I do not agree with your actions.

I know you were joking. You are not that mean.

Sorry, but violence is NOT okay. Even if they annoy you.


Exactly.

It's a form of entitlement to make one's problems, issues, and annoyances those of someone else, who doesn't deserve it.

---

I am that Masked Man.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Hyperbolic language is not violence.

Quote
CJsNvrUrly
I ride an e-trike WITH a helmet.

Sexy!

---

It is what it is.

Quote
RgrF
Hyperbolic language is not violence.

No, but obviously it can incite violence. See Trump's warm-up speech immediately before the Capitol Insurrection.

---

Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass

Quote
RgrF
Hyperbolic language is not violence.

If we were talking about an ethnic group instead of people who use a specific mode of transportation, would be we as tolerant of it?

If its acceptable to talk about committing acts of violence, it bleeds into the actions themselves also being acceptable.

Unfortunately we've been witness to far too much of this over the past few years.

---

And yes, there are people that intentionally threaten people with their cars. We are discussing something that some small-but-still-too-large number of people do.

Uh, Davester, how can you say helmets are unnecessary for scooters like that (and on bicycles, for that matter)? Have you actually looked up the number of head injuries on those things? It's ridiculous. Plus, going less than 20 mph doesn't protect you at all when cars run you over. Helmets do though.

The e-bikes are the problem around here. They're travelling 20mph, enough to seriously injure or maybe kill a pedestrian. I'd say those "Razor" type scooters are less injurious, but not to the rider, who would likely fly off and hit thr ground while losing control. Sadly, I think this is where governmental regulations must be imposed, and yet another level of bureaucracy instituted because humans will only do what is good for the individual.

Falling off a bike even a low or no speed and hitting your head on a hard surface could cause serious head trauma or even death.

You can trip hiking at walking speed and hit a rock. Boom. Dead.

---

********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

[www.youtube.com]

Quote
davester

Quote
Racer X
Davester, necessary or not, helmets are required by law in Washington State. Just ignoring a law because it is inconvenient isn't the way an entire city is supposed to be run.

Only true for devices with motors capable of exceeding 20 mph under power. All others (i.e. most scooters and e-bikes) are only required to follow WA bicycle helmet laws (i.e. no helmets required) and may use bike lanes. [www.dmv.org] [wsdot.wa.gov]

They must have changed it in the past year or so.

MAVIC and I looked into it in maybe 2019 when this came up. Back then it was bicycle or e-bike only in the bicycle lane.

---

********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

[www.youtube.com]