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After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: hal
Date: July 16, 2021 04:00PM
When the mask order was lifted here, it took the local bizs a few days to pull down their 'maks required' signs and then most people in grocery stores that I saw were w/o masks. Being fully vax'd, I went to the store once w/o and went out to dinner once, but now that the delta variant is well known, I'm seeing 85%+ masks again. Not 100% like when it was the law, but pretty close.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 16, 2021 05:36PM
Yes, I need to go back to mask wearing when indoors. ugh.

If this were a dystopian novel nobody would believe it.



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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: hal
Date: July 16, 2021 06:07PM
who would believe that the worst possible thing happened when the worst possible man was in charge?
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 16, 2021 07:51PM
And now Beta is circulating in Europe, France in particular. Only around 4% of cases, but this is how Delta got going. This is the variant that caused South Africa to stop using AstraZeneca vaccine because it is not effective against Beta.

Too soon to let travelers come back.
We have to get the world fully vaccinated with shots that work, or this thing doesn't end.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: bfd
Date: July 16, 2021 09:20PM
Or we just learn to live with it like we do with the flu…
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 16, 2021 09:33PM
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 16, 2021 09:48PM
Or we just learn to live with it like we do with the flu…


Once the herd is culled, we'll have achieved herd immunity, and it will be 'flu season' a lot of the time.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 16, 2021 09:55PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 16, 2021 10:35PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.

If this were as deadly as 1918, there would be 3.2 million dead already, adjusting for population.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 16, 2021 11:04PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
RgrF
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.

If this were as deadly as 1918, there would be 3.2 million dead already, adjusting for population.

4 million have already died, worldwide. I presume you were referring specifically to the U.S.

And it's worth remembering that the national/worldwide medical care has advanced considerably since 1918. If it hadn't, we would probably have exceeded the 3.2 million by now.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 16, 2021 11:05PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
RgrF
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.

If this were as deadly as 1918, there would be 3.2 million dead already, adjusting for population.

4 million have already died, worldwide. I presume you were referring specifically to the U.S.

And it's worth remembering that the national/worldwide medical care has advanced considerably since 1918. If it hadn't, we would probably have exceeded the 3.2 million by now.

Yes, USA only.

Thankfully the medical care has improved vastly, but the 1918 virus primarily affected younger, healthier people with no other contributing mortality. In short, it was a far deadlier virus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/16/2021 11:09PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 16, 2021 11:12PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
RgrF
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.

If this were as deadly as 1918, there would be 3.2 million dead already, adjusting for population.

If this was 1918 many of the treatments available now wouldn't be. And based on experience with prior pandemics at least a good percentage of people were convinced to follow protocols to limit infections somewhat. The 1918 pandemic was also over a three year period, here in the US it is just going up on a year and a half.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 17, 2021 12:39AM
Quote
hal
...I'm seeing 85%+ masks again. Not 100% like when it was the law, but pretty close.


"It's okay. We're all vaccinated..." is going away.

Just in the last week, clients have stopped telling me that it's okay to take my mask off with them and have mostly started wearing masks again in corridors and conference rooms once again.

Offices are putting up "Face mask required even if you are vaccinated" signs in defiance of local, state and federal government guidance.



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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 17, 2021 07:35AM
Quote
bfd
Or we just learn to live with it like we do with the flu…

The flu virus may be a special case since it has surface proteins that can be reshuffled particularly efficiently to confound our immune systems:

Quote

The flu virus genome has eight separate segments, including one for the HA [surface] protein and one for NA [surface protein]. These proteins determine a flu virus’s subtype (such as H1N1 or H3N2), and nearly all subtypes occur in birds, the natural host of the influenza virus…If two subtypes infect the same cell, their gene segments can mix and match, called reassortment. This often happens in pigs and birds.

And the combinations of N and H proteins are different enough that being immune to, say, H1N1 doesn’t cut it for H1N3 or H3N2 (etc). So, every year, the vaccine makers have to guess what combination(s) of H and N are going to be prevalent out in the world in formulating their vaccines. Sometimes they guess right; sometimes they guess wrong.

The corresponding situation in coronavirus is the (singular) spike protein - this can still undergo mutation which may help it evade the immune system of someone immune to a coronavirus with last year’s spike protein. But it doesn’t carry 5 or 6 or 8 slightly different copies of the spike protein all ready to simply switch in like the flu virus does.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 17, 2021 07:49AM
I see that an LA county sheriff helpfully went on TV yesterday and said that the Department of Public Health order is not supported by science and he is telling his department not to enforce it.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 17, 2021 08:06AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
PeterB
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
RgrF
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.

If this were as deadly as 1918, there would be 3.2 million dead already, adjusting for population.

4 million have already died, worldwide. I presume you were referring specifically to the U.S.

And it's worth remembering that the national/worldwide medical care has advanced considerably since 1918. If it hadn't, we would probably have exceeded the 3.2 million by now.

Yes, USA only.

Thankfully the medical care has improved vastly, but the 1918 virus primarily affected younger, healthier people with no other contributing mortality. In short, it was a far deadlier virus.

I dunno, I think you're comparing apples and oranges there. The 1918 virus might have been more deadly to a different age group, but the mortality rates of the two viruses are similar... 2.4 versus 2.5%: [pmj.bmj.com] ... so it depends on how you define "deadlier".




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2021 08:10AM by PeterB.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 17, 2021 08:09AM
Were this 1918 you'd get the vaccine whether or not you wanted it.

Back then towns posted signs at the railroad stations "step off the train & get quarantined in our jail" and they enforced it.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 17, 2021 08:23AM
Quote
bfd
Or we just learn to live with it like we do with the flu…

Or maybe like we learned to "live with" Poliovirus.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 17, 2021 11:54AM
Just in the last week, clients have stopped telling me that it's okay to take my mask off


I was idly wondering if anybody had experienced any kind of 'blowback' about wearing masks when various agencies sounded an 'all clear'.

I've been to Costco and Safeway, and a few other smaller places, and most as in almost all people were still maskedup.

Costco may have never stopper requiring mask, I didn't notice.

So I haven't had any experiences at all of that nature, most likely not being 'that masked man over there'.

Most of the people I know on a personal level have gone completely maskless, but haven't questioned me about not doing so.

And while a couple are Carlson fans, they did get vaccinated asap, though maybe not as quickly as Carlson.

My girlfriend has also remained maskedup.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: hal
Date: July 17, 2021 12:11PM
Update: the county is recommending masks again today.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 17, 2021 02:25PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
PeterB
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
RgrF
Quote
mrbigstuff
We will absolutely have to learn to live with it, just as we (others previous to us) did relative to the 1918 flu. It mutates and morphs and we are, thankfully, nowhere close to the death count of that pandemic. There have also been 100s of millions exposed to it now, so we have already built immunity for a large percentage of the global population.

The "herd" is three times that of 1918 and that doesn't begin to address the mutation issue. We were on a uproad that recently seemed like a leveling and now offers the real possibility of a serious regression.

If this were as deadly as 1918, there would be 3.2 million dead already, adjusting for population.

4 million have already died, worldwide. I presume you were referring specifically to the U.S.

And it's worth remembering that the national/worldwide medical care has advanced considerably since 1918. If it hadn't, we would probably have exceeded the 3.2 million by now.

Yes, USA only.

Thankfully the medical care has improved vastly, but the 1918 virus primarily affected younger, healthier people with no other contributing mortality. In short, it was a far deadlier virus.

I dunno, I think you're comparing apples and oranges there. The 1918 virus might have been more deadly to a different age group, but the mortality rates of the two viruses are similar... 2.4 versus 2.5%: [pmj.bmj.com] ... so it depends on how you define "deadlier".

Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 17, 2021 02:51PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 17, 2021 03:01PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.

No, reread what Peter and I were conversing about. I was referring to the pull quote comparing the 1918 pandemic to this one. The comparison of the two figures are wildly off the mark. Do you have a citation for the 1.75% figure?
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 17, 2021 03:08PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

Not even close. It means that 2.4% of all those infected with COVID died from it.



It is what it is.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 17, 2021 04:57PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.

No, reread what Peter and I were conversing about. I was referring to the pull quote comparing the 1918 pandemic to this one. The comparison of the two figures are wildly off the mark. Do you have a citation for the 1.75% figure?

Latest figures from the NY Times COVID reporting are 34,019,776 cases and 608,070 deaths in the US. That comes out to be 1.78%. Exact numbers may vary a bit by site, but they all come out to a similar results.

[www.nytimes.com]

If you read the paper PeterB linked to, it is clear the mortality rate referred to is the percentage of effected individuals who died of the 1918 influenza as being 2.5% overall, much higher in certain age groups.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 17, 2021 05:01PM
Quote
JoeH
If this was 1918 many of the treatments available now wouldn't be.

Yep. Without those treatments T***p would have died or at least have been hospitalized for weeks or months.



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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 17, 2021 06:51PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.

No, reread what Peter and I were conversing about. I was referring to the pull quote comparing the 1918 pandemic to this one. The comparison of the two figures are wildly off the mark. Do you have a citation for the 1.75% figure?

Latest figures from the NY Times COVID reporting are 34,019,776 cases and 608,070 deaths in the US. That comes out to be 1.78%. Exact numbers may vary a bit by site, but they all come out to a similar results.

[www.nytimes.com]

If you read the paper PeterB linked to, it is clear the mortality rate referred to is the percentage of effected individuals who died of the 1918 influenza as being 2.5% overall, much higher in certain age groups.

Yes, mortality rate compared to "case fatality rate." Two completely different metrics.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 17, 2021 07:29PM
Counties of Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Sonoma, and the City of Berkeley Recommend Masking Indoors for Everyone as a Precaution Against Increased Circulation of COVID-19

With cases of COVID-19 rising locally and increased circulation of the highly transmissible Delta variant, the Counties of Alameda, Contra Costa, Marin, San Francisco, San Mateo, Santa Clara, Sonoma, and the City of Berkeley recommend that everyone, regardless of vaccination status, wear masks indoors in public places to ensure easy verification that all unvaccinated people are masked in those settings and as an extra precautionary measure for all.


[covid19.sccgov.org]


Same as it ever was, for me.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 17, 2021 07:40PM
As the above is only a recommendation, I'm curious as to how much traction it'll get.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: JoeH
Date: July 17, 2021 08:48PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.

No, reread what Peter and I were conversing about. I was referring to the pull quote comparing the 1918 pandemic to this one. The comparison of the two figures are wildly off the mark. Do you have a citation for the 1.75% figure?

Latest figures from the NY Times COVID reporting are 34,019,776 cases and 608,070 deaths in the US. That comes out to be 1.78%. Exact numbers may vary a bit by site, but they all come out to a similar results.

[www.nytimes.com]

If you read the paper PeterB linked to, it is clear the mortality rate referred to is the percentage of effected individuals who died of the 1918 influenza as being 2.5% overall, much higher in certain age groups.

Yes, mortality rate compared to "case fatality rate." Two completely different metrics.

You seem to be the confused one, the entire discussion has been about the case mortality rate connected with COVID and a comparison to the case mortality rate of the 1918 influenza.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 17, 2021 09:01PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.

No, reread what Peter and I were conversing about. I was referring to the pull quote comparing the 1918 pandemic to this one. The comparison of the two figures are wildly off the mark. Do you have a citation for the 1.75% figure?

Latest figures from the NY Times COVID reporting are 34,019,776 cases and 608,070 deaths in the US. That comes out to be 1.78%. Exact numbers may vary a bit by site, but they all come out to a similar results.

[www.nytimes.com]

If you read the paper PeterB linked to, it is clear the mortality rate referred to is the percentage of effected individuals who died of the 1918 influenza as being 2.5% overall, much higher in certain age groups.

Yes, mortality rate compared to "case fatality rate." Two completely different metrics.

You seem to be the confused one, the entire discussion has been about the case mortality rate connected with COVID and a comparison to the case mortality rate of the 1918 influenza.

Oy. Again, reread what Peter and I were discussing. The paper cited is incorrect, it's conflating two different metrics. The semantics are confusing but the metrics are not.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2021 09:05PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 17, 2021 09:48PM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Quote
JoeH
Quote
mrbigstuff
Covid case mortality is 2.4% ....?!?
That would mean 2.4% of the world's population has died of covid.

No, "COVID case mortality". That is the percentage of those infected with COVID who have died from the disease.

Overall here in the US the mortality rate of those infected is about 1.75% the last time I checked. That is down from the initial rate of over 2% during the first few months. So far about 10% of the US population has been infected, perhaps a bit more if undiagnosed mild infections were able to be counted.

At this point what they do know is that a high percentage of those sufficiently exposed to the virus and not vaccinated will come down with the disease. Less exposure, fewer cases and even fewer if people are vaccinated.

No, reread what Peter and I were conversing about. I was referring to the pull quote comparing the 1918 pandemic to this one. The comparison of the two figures are wildly off the mark. Do you have a citation for the 1.75% figure?

Latest figures from the NY Times COVID reporting are 34,019,776 cases and 608,070 deaths in the US. That comes out to be 1.78%. Exact numbers may vary a bit by site, but they all come out to a similar results.

[www.nytimes.com]

If you read the paper PeterB linked to, it is clear the mortality rate referred to is the percentage of effected individuals who died of the 1918 influenza as being 2.5% overall, much higher in certain age groups.

Yes, mortality rate compared to "case fatality rate." Two completely different metrics.

You seem to be the confused one, the entire discussion has been about the case mortality rate connected with COVID and a comparison to the case mortality rate of the 1918 influenza.

Oy. Again, reread what Peter and I were discussing. The paper cited is incorrect, it's conflating two different metrics. The semantics are confusing but the metrics are not.

As far as I'm aware, the paper I cited is correct in terms of rate of mortality from coronavirus versus the 1918 flu. (Note that they used Worldometer as a reference for the numbers for corona.)

The numbers might vary somewhat from what they listed (2.4 versus 2.5%) because of a number of different factors, not the least of which is an accurate accounting of infections and deaths due to infections, both in the case of coronavirus and the 1918 flu: [www.healthaffairs.org]




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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/17/2021 09:49PM by PeterB.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 17, 2021 10:05PM
Peter, the denominator in those percentages are different: one being essentially "world population" and the other the "number of known cases." Still lots of room for discrepancy, esp w regard to the 1918 figures, but the above still holds. Record keeping was not as good a century ago, but if anything, numbers of deaths in 1918 may have been under counted.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 18, 2021 07:21AM
Quote
mrbigstuff
Peter, the denominator in those percentages are different: one being essentially "world population" and the other the "number of known cases." Still lots of room for discrepancy, esp w regard to the 1918 figures, but the above still holds. Record keeping was not as good a century ago, but if anything, numbers of deaths in 1918 may have been under counted.

I think again we may be speaking at cross-purposes. Yes, it's true that virtually anything from 1918 is going to be an estimate, but so are the deaths from corona (which are also likely to be an underestimate). Here are a few more articles that again make the point that the mortality rates are likely comparable:

[jamanetwork.com]
[www.washingtonpost.com]
[www.sciencedirect.com]




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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 18, 2021 03:16PM
I'm not even seeing a measurable percentage of mask wearers. There may be 10-15 individuals in a store. Government offices have removed all restrictions, schools will be strictly voluntary masking. Stores are not requiring masks on customers or staff.

And no one cares that numbers are going up.



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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: July 18, 2021 09:15PM
Mask wearers here are mostly Black...wonder if they've had the vaccine?

Lack of trust in the medical establishment remains for good reason.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/18/2021 09:15PM by Bill in NC.
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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 19, 2021 02:15PM
Lack of trust in the medical establishment remains for good reason.


Fortunately, there are some people directly working to overcome that.

For good reason.

[news.yahoo.com]





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Re: After a short respite, masks are coming out again without prompting from the gov't
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 19, 2021 03:55PM
Quote
Bill in NC
Mask wearers here are mostly Black...wonder if they've had the vaccine?

Lack of trust in the medical establishment remains for good reason.

I knew where that link led before clicking on it.

I've actually given some thought to some people's reluctance to vaccinate within the context of Tuskegee. The most significant -- and most important -- difference between the two situations is this: with Tuskegee, the only ones being lied to were the Black participants of the study. If they are lying in the case of the vaccine, they are lying to EVERYBODY, white and black. The likelihood that so many institutions (CDC, WHO, US government) are lying to so many -- including so many white people -- is pretty damn tiny.

And so I wonder if any black people have considered the situation from that point of view.



It is what it is.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2021 03:56PM by N-OS X-tasy!.
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