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OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 19, 2021 04:59PM
... I just had a home visit from a nurse for a particular type of treatment I might be getting (to train me on how to do the treatment), and while we were doing the treatment, the subject of the virus / vaccines inevitably came up.

According to her, the virus was created by FAUCI. In a Wuhan lab. (She literally said it like that, to suggest that Fauci was personally responsible for the creation of the virus in the lab in Wuhan.) There was more to it than that, but I cut her off before she got a whole lot further with it, I just told her I don't believe any of that. (In the back of my mind, I was thinking: "So let me get this straight, Fauci created a deadly virus so that he could later claim to be helping all of us survive it?")

I was dumbstruck... she seemed utterly, utterly convinced by all this stuff. It truly is brainwashing/religious devotion/cult programming.

My real concern is that these wingnuts are 30-50% of our population who will continue believing what they believe, in the face of all rational evidence to the contrary, and pass that disinformation/programming down to all their relatives, children, friends, whoever. It's like its own kind of virus.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2021 05:00PM by PeterB.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: July 19, 2021 05:05PM
You fired her, right?
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Don C
Date: July 19, 2021 05:12PM
I hope you have the option to replace her with someone more sane/credible.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 19, 2021 05:12PM
We have experienced this too with a couple of the nurses/CNA’s/healthcare workers that came to our home to provide services to our mom. Some of them weren’t even vaccinated (we told the healthcare provider we didn’t want to see them anymore). I can’t fathom how healthcare workers can even believe in this stuff.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2021 05:13PM by Carnos Jax.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 19, 2021 05:29PM
I don't have the option to "fire" her, she doesn't work for me. I could ask for a different nurse, but I'm not sure I have that option. She's scheduled to do two more home visits with me, I'm inclined to just do those and get it done with. (That's if I continue to do the treatments at all, I'm not sure I will.) The treatments are prepackaged and she was doing everything in front of me-- showing me how to do everything, so that I can eventually do it on my own--, so there was no possibility of her doing anything improperly.

I did ask: she is vaccinated, and though she first showed up at my door without a mask, once she saw that I was wearing one, she wore one too.

Sadly, I suspect many down here believe this stuff.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: July 19, 2021 05:32PM
[www.nytimes.com]

A federal judge in Texas has dismissed a lawsuit brought by employees of Houston Methodist Hospital who had challenged the hospital’s coronavirus vaccination requirement... he rejected a claim by Jennifer Bridges, a nurse and the lead plaintiff in the lawsuit, that the vaccines available for use in the United States were experimental and dangerous...

Ms. Bridges cited the lack of full Food and Drug Administration approval for the shot as justification for refusing to get vaccinated. But the F.D.A., which has granted emergency use authorizations for three vaccines, says clinical trials and post-market study shows they are safe, as does the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The judge also noted that Texas employment law only protects employees from termination for refusing to commit an act that carries criminal penalties.

“Bridges can freely choose to accept or refuse a Covid-19 vaccine, however if she refuses, she will simply need to work somewhere else,” he said, also rejecting the argument that employees were being coerced.

And the judge called “reprehensible” the lawsuit’s contention that a vaccination requirement was akin to medical experimentation during the Holocaust.


(Emphasis added.)

It may be that one of the subtle long-term consequences of the pandemic is the growing recognition that people who are educated in a specialty peripherally related to hard sciences are not necessarily versed in science, nor particularly intelligent or wise or working in anyone's interests other than their own.



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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 19, 2021 05:35PM
On the dimmest bright side; at least she acknowledges the virus is real. Many deplorables deny even that.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 19, 2021 05:41PM
Quote
DeusxMac
On the dimmest bright side; at least she acknowledges the virus is real. Many deplorables deny even that.

Actually she and I did agree that the people who weren't getting vaccinated (especially given current circumstances) are risking their own lives, and that getting vaccinated is preferable to dying from corona. That was something. So she wasn't totally anti-vax or something.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: July 19, 2021 06:09PM
Senior Biden officials finding that Covid lab leak theory as credible as natural origins explanation
https: //www.cnn.com/2021/07/16/politics/biden-intel-review-covid-origins/index.html



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 19, 2021 06:17PM
On behalf of all nurses everywhere, I apologize for this nurse. We are not all crazy.

‘Firing’ Just means asking for another nurse. I would do it, and be sure to tell them why. Even if that nurse has crazy views they should not be spreading them to patients. I really would not let this nurse get away with that kind of thing. Customer service is huge in nursing now, and honestly this is kind of a major thing. Of course the nurses boss may or may not have the same crazy views.

FWIW I was working around the nurse who did not get vaccinated. She also mentioned how inconvenient it was that her two-year-old had whooping cough. Which she did not bother to vaccinate the young child against. Unfortunately, you can’t fix stupid, and nursing education doesn’t really go very far.

If you really wanna have fun, ask her for the source of Fauci working in the Wuhan lab. Like where did she hear it from, where do they hear it from, where are the real sources. I’ve never seen one of these crazies last more than two minutes under direct interrogation. Doesn’t necessarily change the beliefs but for a few, it might.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Marc Anthony
Date: July 19, 2021 06:21PM
There are all levels of professionalism and education at any time in any profession, including nursing. You could call the home health agency and ask to speak to the nurse manager. State that you’re not necessarily displeased with the services rendered but that a staff member is espousing unsubstantiated claims about COVID-19 that may negatively influence the health literacy of lesser informed clients; the situation indicates a need for additional education—possibly for their entire staff.



Le poète doit vivre beaucoup, vivre dans tous les sens. - Verlaine
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 19, 2021 06:50PM
Quote
Sarcany
It may be that one of the subtle long-term consequences of the pandemic is the growing recognition that people who are educated in a specialty peripherally related to hard sciences are not necessarily versed in science, nor particularly intelligent or wise or working in anyone's interests other than their own.

You said it, brother.



It is what it is.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: July 19, 2021 06:54PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Sarcany
It may be that one of the subtle long-term consequences of the pandemic is the growing recognition that people who are educated in a specialty peripherally related to hard sciences are not necessarily versed in science, nor particularly intelligent or wise or working in anyone's interests other than their own.

You said it, brother.

Ditto. You wouldn’t believe how many engineers I worked with that believe it the earth was only 6000 years old. It’s like they ignored all their thermodynamics and other physics courses.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 19, 2021 07:06PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Sarcany
It may be that one of the subtle long-term consequences of the pandemic is the growing recognition that people who are educated in a specialty peripherally related to hard sciences are not necessarily versed in science, nor particularly intelligent or wise or working in anyone's interests other than their own.

You said it, brother.

Ditto. You wouldn’t believe how many engineers I worked with that believe it the earth was only 6000 years old. It’s like they ignored all their thermodynamics and other physics courses.

Somewhere out there there must be at least one geologist who ascribes to that belief, I'd bet on it.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 19, 2021 07:07PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
[ You wouldn’t believe how many engineers I worked with that believe it the earth was only 6000 years old. It’s like they ignored all their thermodynamics and other physics courses.

Mortality is really scary.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 19, 2021 07:08PM
Quote
Carnos Jax
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Sarcany
It may be that one of the subtle long-term consequences of the pandemic is the growing recognition that people who are educated in a specialty peripherally related to hard sciences are not necessarily versed in science, nor particularly intelligent or wise or working in anyone's interests other than their own.

You said it, brother.

Ditto. You wouldn’t believe how many engineers I worked with that believe it the earth was only 6000 years old. It’s like they ignored all their thermodynamics and other physics courses.

No question in my mind that this is true; discussing some other things with her (she was asking me about genetics), it was clear that her education in that subject had been minimal at best ... or that she was one of those "just barely passing" students. This is the consequence of the lapsing of educational standards, that we now consider it acceptable to let students through who haven't actually learned anything.

I'm still going back and forth in my mind about whether or not to report this. My recollection is that they may be contacting me as a followup to see how this session went -- which would be an obvious opportunity to bring it up. The other issue is that apparently there are only six nurses in the area who do this particular treatment regimen, under my health plan ... so I may not have a huge number of choices of getting a different nurse. (This is a specialty medication, super-expensive without insurance...)

Edit: I should also say, in fairness, I was the one who brought up the issue about vaccines/the virus. And if it's relevant, in the middle of her showing me what to do, she had to take a personal phone call about making a doctor's appointment for herself ... I don't know whether or not to consider that unprofessional as well. (I think had she done that and not also made her opinions about the virus known, I wouldn't have thought that much of it, but the two things together make me less than impressed with her professionalism.)




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/19/2021 07:13PM by PeterB.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 19, 2021 07:50PM
Quote

Edit: I should also say, in fairness, I was the one who brought up the issue about vaccines/the virus. And if it's relevant, in the middle of her showing me what to do, she had to take a personal phone call about making a doctor's appointment for herself ... I don't know whether or not to consider that unprofessional as well.

HIGHLY. I never carry my personal phone at work, and use the work cell phone that is assigned to me. I only touch My personal phone at brakes or at lunch. Be sure to mention that to the nurse manager. I would really ask for another nurse, 99% of the time it is no big deal and it’s honestly better for you and your health. No one will be offended.

For what it’s worth, nursing does not have a ton of scientific training. Very basic anatomy, physiology, statistics, introductory psychology, perhaps a single semester of chemistry or physics. Not the easiest classes but certainly not that hard. I’ll have my BSN next week. My masters in psychology was far, far more rigorous and scientifically grounded than anything in nursing. Nursing was a cakewalk in comparison.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 19, 2021 08:09PM
Quote
p8712
Quote

Edit: I should also say, in fairness, I was the one who brought up the issue about vaccines/the virus. And if it's relevant, in the middle of her showing me what to do, she had to take a personal phone call about making a doctor's appointment for herself ... I don't know whether or not to consider that unprofessional as well.

HIGHLY. I never carry my personal phone at work, and use the work cell phone that is assigned to me. I only touch My personal phone at brakes or at lunch. Be sure to mention that to the nurse manager. I would really ask for another nurse, 99% of the time it is no big deal and it’s honestly better for you and your health. No one will be offended.

For what it’s worth, nursing does not have a ton of scientific training. Very basic anatomy, physiology, statistics, introductory psychology, perhaps a single semester of chemistry or physics. Not the easiest classes but certainly not that hard. I’ll have my BSN next week. My masters in psychology was far, far more rigorous and scientifically grounded than anything in nursing. Nursing was a cakewalk in comparison.

1) Would it be unprofessional even for a traveling nurse to be using their personal phone? I'm also pretty sure she was using the phone to enter in the information about our session today (time it took, information about the medications, etc.). Not 100% sure about this, though.

2) Yes, I'm aware that nursing training is not necessarily substantial, but the students I've had over the years who've chosen to do nursing have actually been some of the best students. In fact, one of them who I'd taught genetics, actually contacted me after she'd graduated and was in nursing school -- to let me know that she was actually teaching pedigree analysis (a component of genetics) to her nursing school classmates! (Needless to say, I was very proud of her.)




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 19, 2021 08:15PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
DeusxMac
On the dimmest bright side; at least she acknowledges the virus is real. Many deplorables deny even that.

Actually she and I did agree that the people who weren't getting vaccinated (especially given current circumstances) are risking their own lives, and that getting vaccinated is preferable to dying from corona. That was something. So she wasn't totally anti-vax or something.

I'm guessing that's the only reason you didn't kick her out of your house.



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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 19, 2021 08:47PM
If it was her one and only phone, authorized by her provider, simply using it would not be unprofessional. Taking personal calls, especially in earshot, is. It is one thing to answer the phone for coordinating care for you or another patient, but you don’t do things like make personal appointments for yourself while you are working. Imagine if your doctor took a personal call in the middle of an appointment to book their golf game. How would you feel? If she was charting on the phone, which seems kind of odd, it might also be OK. Usually home health will be charting on a laptop or perhaps a tablet. Or in some cases, on paper.

Honestly though, the fact that she is pushing any kind of personal beliefs, politics, or conspiracy theory really clinches the unprofessional cake. Some things you do not share with the patient unless explicitly asked, and often times not even then, or vaguely.

For what it’s worth, nursing school genetics for me was fairly basic. Detailed genetic stuff is not something you would use much, even for patients with genetic disorders, aside from patho background. I never got past having to do punnet squares.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 19, 2021 08:53PM
Yeah this is a classic, “who told you that?” moment.

Learned it years ago selling stereos in a former life. Customer comes in, there’s a conversation, and pretty soon the customer either craps on the brand you’re selling or sings the praises of what you don’t. “Who told you that?” It’s rhetorical, and can easily be ignored no matter what they say without needing to argue.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 19, 2021 09:02PM
Quote
AllGold
Quote
PeterB
Quote
DeusxMac
On the dimmest bright side; at least she acknowledges the virus is real. Many deplorables deny even that.

Actually she and I did agree that the people who weren't getting vaccinated (especially given current circumstances) are risking their own lives, and that getting vaccinated is preferable to dying from corona. That was something. So she wasn't totally anti-vax or something.

I'm guessing that's the only reason you didn't kick her out of your house.

I didn't kick her out of my house because we were in the middle of the medication procedure when the subject came up...

Quote
p8712
If it was her one and only phone, authorized by her provider, simply using it would not be unprofessional. Taking personal calls, especially in earshot, is. It is one thing to answer the phone for coordinating care for you or another patient, but you don’t do things like make personal appointments for yourself while you are working. Imagine if your doctor took a personal call in the middle of an appointment to book their golf game. How would you feel? If she was charting on the phone, which seems kind of odd, it might also be OK. Usually home health will be charting on a laptop or perhaps a tablet. Or in some cases, on paper.

She said she would take the call because it was a matter of scheduling a doctor's appointment for herself. I don't know if it's really the same as a doctor taking a call in the middle of an appointment for a golf game. OTOH, because the call was right in front of me, she did go into discussion of what the doctor's appointment was for. I think she was trying to be friendly and conversational, but I agree that it's probably not the best way to be professional. That being said, I've gotten used to a certain level of unprofessionalism down here.

Quote
p8712
Honestly though, the fact that she is pushing any kind of personal beliefs, politics, or conspiracy theory really clinches the unprofessional cake. Some things you do not share with the patient unless explicitly asked, and often times not even then, or vaguely.

I wouldn't say she was pushing her beliefs; I did ask, so that opened the door. That being said, to hear that coming out of the mouth of a medical professional obviously DID completely throw me.

Quote
p8712
For what it’s worth, nursing school genetics for me was fairly basic. Detailed genetic stuff is not something you would use much, even for patients with genetic disorders, aside from patho background. I never got past having to do punnet squares.

Depending on where and when you attended, that might make a difference. My former student, from what I saw, did go fairly into depth in her class.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 19, 2021 09:09PM
Quote

Depending on where and when you attended, that might make a difference. My former student, from what I saw, did go fairly into depth in her class.

I’ll be a BSN next week. Even in advanced patho complex genetics don’t play much if a role.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: mattkime
Date: July 19, 2021 09:14PM
Broadly (overly broadly, perhaps) the only difference between the nurse and any of us is that she gets her knowledge from a different authority. I find this to be the only way to relate to someone like this.

That said, I'd ask to work with someone else.



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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 19, 2021 09:28PM
Education isn't a barrier to gullible stupidity. I live in a professional neighborhood with a doctor, a surgical nurse, a corporate executive, and an attorney for neighbors - ALL are covid conspiracy nuts, one is still flying a trump flag, and another is talking of moving overseas to escape the Democrat socialist agenda (yeah, by moving to a socialist country - whatever).

I and my last remaining sane neighbor, a retired NASA engineer, just shake our heads in disbelief.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: p8712
Date: July 19, 2021 09:42PM
I took a look at genetic pedigrees. Interesting stuff, honestly all genetics is interesting, but also not life or death nursing material.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 20, 2021 02:16PM
You brought up the subject. We have to all get along.

But having said that, I won’t patronize businesses that impose what are basically political beliefs I don’t like. Stick a campaign sign in your business’ window and I’ll use that to decide whether to enter.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: OK, this was a new one to me
Posted by: kj
Date: July 20, 2021 04:39PM
There's a difference between practitioners and scientists. Practitioners usually are not trained to DO science, because it's not what they need. I wouldn't let my physics professor (actually, he probably isn't alive) rewire my garage to have a 220v plug. I would get a practitioner (electrician) with vastly less scientific knowledge to do it, because he has the correct knowledge to do what's needed.

People are weird and they think all kinds of weird things. The same physics professor said about a hundred times in class physics was the only real science. Wow, what kind of a scientist would say that? Idk, in this case, a pretty good one, but in a lot of ways he was fricken' crazy. I learned what I needed, but one thing I learned from him is that even really "smart" people are just people.
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