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Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 20, 2021 08:04AM
Poll
Gun Owners.. What's your primary reason to own a gun ?
Only registered users are allowed to vote for this poll.
36 votes were received.
It's a Hobby 7
 
19%
Hunting 1
 
3%
Home Defense 2
 
6%
Concealed Carry protection 0
 
0%
I don't own a gun but wanted to click on something 22
 
61%
I have a much more/less coherent answer I posted below 4
 
11%



Let's pseudo science the crap out of this....
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 20, 2021 09:18AM
I don't have one but have no issue with responsible ownership. That is by far the vast majority of gun owners. Every gun owner I know has no desire to show it off.

However, they are concerned that the irresponsible showoffs are going to ruin their rights. From what I can see, they have a legitimate concern.

Why don't I own a gun? I don't feel threatened where I live, I find target shooting boring, and I don't have the patience or desire to hunt (or fish). My daughter-in-law enjoys hunting, owns a .30-06 rifle, and is the last person you would expect that of.

So if you are responsible, I don't care what you own or why.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: hal
Date: July 20, 2021 09:44AM
"I don't own a gun but wanted to click on something" totally and thoroughly cracked me up! Well done!
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: wave rider
Date: July 20, 2021 09:47AM
Quote
hal
"I don't own a gun but wanted to click on something" totally and thoroughly cracked me up! Well done!

cbelt3 is very thoughtful that way…



=wr=
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Rick-o
Date: July 20, 2021 09:58AM
I didn't vote because I could check several of the options.

Hobby - I have guns from as far back as my great grandpa. Also have several from my Dad and Grandfather that were passed down to me.

Hunting - I don't hunt nearly as much than when I was younger. Fresh venison is always a treat. You can't buy that in the grocery store.

Home Defense - Yup, even though I live in a small, fairly low crime area, it only takes one low life breaking in and causing serious damage to my family and property. You bet I would defend my family and home with my last breath.

Concealed Carry - Yes, I have a concealed pistol permit. I only pack when I'm headed to the big cities, like my former hometown of Flint, MI. I have no real reason to carry in the relatively safe town I now live in.

> So if you are responsible, I don't care what you own or why.

Well said, Ombligo.



Mr. Lahey: A lot of people, don’t know how to drink. They drink against the grain of the liquor. And when you drink against the grain of the liquor? You lose.

Randy: What the @#$%& are you talking about?
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 20, 2021 11:04AM
Quote
Rick-o
I didn't vote because I could check several of the options...

agree smiley

edit - I just selected the last choice on the poll

My first experience with any sort of firearm was shooting .22 LR target rifles at Summer camp - where I found out I had some talent for it...so when I became old enough to own my own firearms, I gravitated towards those types (target rifles & pistols in .22 LR).

Later, I thought about having something for home defense, and being somewhat interested in history, added an M1 Carbine.

Thinking I should learn to shoot a pistol (other than .22 LR), I picked up some of those while a young adult.

Also as I got older, my interest in target shooting naturally led to getting an accurate longer range rifle.

Now that I'm even older (and have more $), my interest in historical things nudged me to add an original 1st model Winchester 1873, Colt SAA Frontier to match, and an M1 Garand.

Also, now that I've owned (and shot) pistols for some time, I've come to the realization that a revolver may be a better choice for me now (simpler operation) - so added that to the mix (along with a lever action rifle in the same caliber).

So - there isn't any ONE reason why I have firearms - it's a mixture of target shooting, possible home defense (although hopefully that'll never happen - but I believe in the Scout Motto), and an interest in owning some pieces of history. I've actually thought about downsizing on some of what I own - but I'd net maybe half their value by selling to a local gun store, so they just take up space in the safe for now.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2021 11:50AM by SDGuy.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: July 20, 2021 11:06AM
This thread made a, to me, interesting question pop into my head.

What percentage of guns used in crimes are guns stolen from legal users somewhere along the line? Do legal purchasers represent any significant source of illegally obtained guns?

I’m guessing a fair bit less than zero, but not to the level of being a significant source (Statistically, not in the ‘Even one is too many’ sense.).



National Suicide Prevention Hotline tel:1-800-273-8255

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 20, 2021 11:43AM
Quote
Blankity Blank
This thread made a, to me, interesting question pop into my head.

What percentage of guns used in crimes are guns stolen from legal users somewhere along the line? Do legal purchasers represent any significant source of illegally obtained guns?

I’m guessing a fair bit less than zero, but not to the level of being a significant source (Statistically, not in the ‘Even one is too many’ sense.).

12,241 reported stolen firearms in 2020.

[www.statista.com]

Firearms recovered after a crime seems to be a small fraction of those used. [www.atf.gov]
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 20, 2021 12:44PM
Once again, the "I AM M A V I C" option has been overlooked.



It is what it is.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 20, 2021 12:46PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Once again, the "I AM M A V I C" option has been overlooked.
Ooh, you are correct. I tend to use the "I have another opinion" as its replacement.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: vision63
Date: July 20, 2021 01:01PM
Quote
hal
"I don't own a gun but wanted to click on something" totally and thoroughly cracked me up! Well done!

I lol'd too!
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 20, 2021 02:55PM
In spite of my drumbeating against guns, I think it's okay to hunt deer and varmints. (Trophy hunting is ridiculous.) Should you be allowed to blast sheep with your big rifle because 'it's food'? maybe not. Large magazines are similarly unacceptable.

Pistols seem to be the cause of much parking lot, street, bar violence. They don't exist except to settle scores for gangs and shaky egos. They exist to shred and kill people, not food. Home protection? If it's locked in the safe with the ammo in a separate place, your chances of it being effective are slim.

Rather than Westerns being the inspiration for shoot-it-out, I think it's 100 years of war films and TV. In those, the enemy is not only out there, but super-armed and seconds away from attacking. (Video games are so cartoony and exaggerated, I don't believe they are an influence.)

I have a relative who is former-law, well trained and always carries. I seriously doubt he will have to draw down at Costco. He doesn't like it when I tell him it's stupid, even if he still thinks of himself as 'John Law'.

ps- people who do exclusively target shooting because the like to hear loud bangs are harmless, in my opinion. Witness fireworks...everyone like to hear things go bang, except you dog.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/20/2021 02:57PM by Steve G..
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 20, 2021 03:27PM
"I don't own a gun but wanted to click on something" totally and thoroughly cracked me up! Well done!


Made me laugh!



I didn't vote because I could check several of the options.


Same here, though I've never hunted, and and adamantly opposed to trophy hunting.

No varmints near me (you know what I mean) and I don't need to hunt for food.

My dad did some hunting, and I had venison as a wee lad, though that's a very distant.

A neighbor got his deer limit every year, and cleaned it hanging from a beam in his garage.

That pretty much told me hunting was more work than I was willing to do.

Unfortunately, as mentioned venison isn't served in restaurants.

And yes, protecting one's firearms against theft is very important.





Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: testcase
Date: July 20, 2021 05:58PM
Like Rick-o, I too have multiple reasons I own and keep guns handy. Not mentioned is that it IS a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Rights NOT exercised are soon lost. The Second Amendment is the "skeleton" that allows ALL other Amendments to "stand". That's the REAL reason Democrats and Liberals want to gut or repeal it. Should they EVER be successful, much (MOST?) of the U.S. Constitution will be eaten away within a generation. EVERY "Gun Control Scheme" promises to be a panecea to America's ills. NONE have ever been truly effective at creating the Utopia Democrats and Liberals promise. Democrats and Liberals have been successful in demonizing Police. Surprise, surprise, violent crime is SOARING as Police staffing is gutted. On the news just today, politicians are spending millions of tax dollars to assure their own personal safety. Protection for the "average Joe"? Fuggetaboutit (but DON'T take my word for it; visit Chicago and see for yourself.

Multiple court decisions have been rendered confirming that Police are NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE to protect any INDIVIDUAL (with VERY few exceptions).

With all the civil / social unrest across the nation, especially since 2020, MILLIONS of Americans have voted with their feet AND wallets by fleeing cities and BUYING GUNS in unprecedented numbers. Try tell those VERY nervous folks that they're "over reacting".

30+ years as a LEO have proven BEYOND ANY DOUBT that it is better to have a gun and not need it, then it is to NEED a gun and NOT have it readilly available. Early in my career, a felon thought it would benefit him if he shot me (he's NO LONGER with us grinning smiley).

Steve G. you are CLUELESS about felons and wanna be felons.

Suicide Hotline; Please hold. Click. smiley-shocked003
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: hal
Date: July 20, 2021 06:14PM
Quote
testcase
Rights NOT exercised are soon lost. The Second Amendment is the "skeleton" that allows ALL other Amendments to "stand". That's the REAL reason Democrats and Liberals want to gut or repeal it. Should they EVER be successful, much (MOST?) of the U.S. Constitution will be eaten away within a generation.

this is preposterous... I've never pleaded the 5th and probably never will. That right of mine will be there long after I'm dead even though I never used it.

Can you cite any example of a right that has vanished because it wasn't 'used'? I can't think of any.

You seem to be saying that liberals want to take down the 2nd because that will allow them to take away all other freedoms... this is crazy talk. Completely over the edge...
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 20, 2021 06:44PM
Quote
testcase
Like Rick-o, I too have multiple reasons I own and keep guns handy. Not mentioned is that it IS a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Rights NOT exercised are soon lost.

RollingEyesSmiley5Have you exercised you 1st Amendment Right to petition the government yet? If you don't it'll be soon lost. Have you exercised you 5th Amendment Right to not self incriminate yet? If you don't it'll be soon lost.

Quote
testcase
The Second Amendment is the "skeleton" that allows ALL other Amendments to "stand". That's the REAL reason Democrats and Liberals want to gut or repeal it. Should they EVER be successful, much (MOST?) of the U.S. Constitution will be eaten away within a generation.

huh smileyDo you honestly, seriously believe "Democrats and Liberals" want to do away with the U.S. Constitution???

Quote
testcase
EVERY "Gun Control Scheme" promises to be a panecea to America's ills. NONE have ever been truly effective at creating the Utopia Democrats and Liberals promise.

Citation where the claim was that an interpretation of 2nd Amendment would be a "panacea" to all ills and create "a Utopia" please.

Quote
testcase
Democrats and Liberals have been successful in demonizing Police. Surprise, surprise, violent crime is SOARING as Police staffing is gutted. On the news just today, politicians are spending millions of tax dollars to assure their own personal safety. Protection for the "average Joe"? Fuggetaboutit (but DON'T take my word for it; visit Chicago and see for yourself.

Multiple court decisions have been rendered confirming that Police are NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE to protect any INDIVIDUAL (with VERY few exceptions).

With all the civil / social unrest across the nation, especially since 2020, MILLIONS of Americans have voted with their feet AND wallets by fleeing cities and BUYING GUNS in unprecedented numbers. Try tell those VERY nervous folks that they're "over reacting".

30+ years as a LEO have proven BEYOND ANY DOUBT that it is better to have a gun and not need it, then it is to NEED a gun and NOT have it readilly available. Early in my career, a felon thought it would benefit him if he shot me (he's NO LONGER with us grinning smiley).

Steve G. you are CLUELESS about felons and wanna be felons.

Suicide Hotline; Please hold. Click. smiley-shocked003

smiley-signs001Thanks for confirming the thesis of my earlier post. [forums.macresource.com]
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Speedy
Date: July 20, 2021 06:46PM
This is why guns will never be meaningfully restricted; too many single-issue voters with gun fetishes.

Quote
testcase
Like Rick-o, I too have multiple reasons I own and keep guns handy. Not mentioned is that it IS a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Rights NOT exercised are soon lost. The Second Amendment is the "skeleton" that allows ALL other Amendments to "stand". That's the REAL reason Democrats and Liberals want to gut or repeal it. Should they EVER be successful, much (MOST?) of the U.S. Constitution will be eaten away within a generation. EVERY "Gun Control Scheme" promises to be a panecea to America's ills. NONE have ever been truly effective at creating the Utopia Democrats and Liberals promise. Democrats and Liberals have been successful in demonizing Police. Surprise, surprise, violent crime is SOARING as Police staffing is gutted. On the news just today, politicians are spending millions of tax dollars to assure their own personal safety. Protection for the "average Joe"? Fuggetaboutit (but DON'T take my word for it; visit Chicago and see for yourself.

Multiple court decisions have been rendered confirming that Police are NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE to protect any INDIVIDUAL (with VERY few exceptions).

With all the civil / social unrest across the nation, especially since 2020, MILLIONS of Americans have voted with their feet AND wallets by fleeing cities and BUYING GUNS in unprecedented numbers. Try tell those VERY nervous folks that they're "over reacting".

30+ years as a LEO have proven BEYOND ANY DOUBT that it is better to have a gun and not need it, then it is to NEED a gun and NOT have it readilly available. Early in my career, a felon thought it would benefit him if he shot me (he's NO LONGER with us grinning smiley).

Steve G. you are CLUELESS about felons and wanna be felons.

Suicide Hotline; Please hold. Click. smiley-shocked003



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 20, 2021 07:24PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
testcase
Like Rick-o, I too have multiple reasons I own and keep guns handy. Not mentioned is that it IS a CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHT. Rights NOT exercised are soon lost.

RollingEyesSmiley5Have you exercised you 1st Amendment Right to petition the government yet? If you don't it'll be soon lost. Have you exercised you 5th Amendment Right to not self incriminate yet? If you don't it'll be soon lost.

Quote
testcase
The Second Amendment is the "skeleton" that allows ALL other Amendments to "stand". That's the REAL reason Democrats and Liberals want to gut or repeal it. Should they EVER be successful, much (MOST?) of the U.S. Constitution will be eaten away within a generation.

huh smileyDo you honestly, seriously believe "Democrats and Liberals" want to do away with the U.S. Constitution???

Quote
testcase
EVERY "Gun Control Scheme" promises to be a panecea to America's ills. NONE have ever been truly effective at creating the Utopia Democrats and Liberals promise.

Citation where the claim was that an interpretation of 2nd Amendment would be a "panacea" to all ills and create "a Utopia" please.

Quote
testcase
Democrats and Liberals have been successful in demonizing Police. Surprise, surprise, violent crime is SOARING as Police staffing is gutted. On the news just today, politicians are spending millions of tax dollars to assure their own personal safety. Protection for the "average Joe"? Fuggetaboutit (but DON'T take my word for it; visit Chicago and see for yourself.

Multiple court decisions have been rendered confirming that Police are NOT LEGALLY RESPONSIBLE to protect any INDIVIDUAL (with VERY few exceptions).

With all the civil / social unrest across the nation, especially since 2020, MILLIONS of Americans have voted with their feet AND wallets by fleeing cities and BUYING GUNS in unprecedented numbers. Try tell those VERY nervous folks that they're "over reacting".

30+ years as a LEO have proven BEYOND ANY DOUBT that it is better to have a gun and not need it, then it is to NEED a gun and NOT have it readilly available. Early in my career, a felon thought it would benefit him if he shot me (he's NO LONGER with us grinning smiley).

Steve G. you are CLUELESS about felons and wanna be felons.

Suicide Hotline; Please hold. Click. smiley-shocked003

smiley-signs001Thanks for confirming the thesis of my earlier post. [forums.macresource.com]

I just remembered why I've never spent much time on this side of the MRF fence.



It is what it is.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 20, 2021 08:14PM
Somebody get testcase an aspirin — stat. He’s about to pop a corpuscle or 3.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 12:02AM
1, 3 and 4. And I inherited a bunch too. 1820's Pennsylvania rifle and 2 Civil War pistols, all used by ancestors. Still trying to retreive the Revolutionary War Brown Bess taken from a Red Coat in the 1st Insurrection.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 12:09AM
Hey Testcase, Just for you!

[news.yahoo.com] Time magazine article, just today.

The number of females and minorities, even in SEATTLE, I have seen locally over the last 15 months running background checks for purchases as I am picking up my pistols mirrors this article to a T.

And that's 2 different background checks, with up to 10 working days if there is a handgun or "assault" rifle, even a Ruger 10/22 squirrel gun. Ignorance is staggering here.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 21, 2021 07:43AM
Quote
Racer X
Hey Testcase, Just for you!

[news.yahoo.com] Time magazine article, just today.

Racer's link's headline = 'I've Never Seen This Level of Fear.'
My point exactly. [forums.macresource.com]

Quote
Racer X
Ignorance is staggering here.

The irony. RollingEyesSmiley5
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 02:13PM
The ignorance line has to do with so many here claim you can walk out with a stack of bills, and come back from a gun store in an hour with a pistol or semi-automatic rifle in an hour.

I purchased maybe 5 target pistols, and a left handed bolt action .17 HMR for my partner in the last 18 months. Each time I saw first time buyers surprised that there were 2 background check, and they couldn't just walk out with their purchase. The media generally speaking, doesn't tell the whole truth, because that doesn't suit their agenda.

My answers to the poll are equally 1,3 and 4. And the option not listed. Inherited



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: kj
Date: July 21, 2021 02:42PM
smiley-signs001Thanks for confirming the thesis of my earlier post. [forums.macresource.com]

I have a thesis that people want to get rid of guns due to fear. Ok, I apparently missed where you explained how there is something wrong with "fear"? (quoted because a lot of what you've been talking about isn't fear).

[youtu.be]

I didn't watch this whole thing, but I think a lot of gun enthusiasts are like this. They like this stuff. The fear is palpable winking smiley

Not my thing, but I'm glad there are lots of different kinds of people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2021 02:43PM by kj.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 21, 2021 03:14PM
Quote
Racer X
The ignorance line has to do with so many here claim you can walk out with a stack of bills, and come back from a gun store in an hour with a pistol or semi-automatic rifle in an hour.

Could you please provide a link to the forum post where someone made this claim?
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 21, 2021 03:20PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Racer X
The ignorance line has to do with so many here claim you can walk out with a stack of bills, and come back from a gun store in an hour with a pistol or semi-automatic rifle in an hour.

Could you please provide a link to the forum post where someone made this claim?

Didn't CNN prove that point with a 13 year old boy?
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 21, 2021 03:27PM
I don’t understand why anyone would bother with a dealer when gun shows are a thing.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 04:33PM
Quote
deckeda
I don’t understand why anyone would bother with a dealer when gun shows are a thing.

Another HUGE and common falacy. If the person selling a firearm at a gun show is a dealer, FEDERAL LAW requires at least a NICS check in EVERY STATE. Then there are any State laws to comply with. All of the gun shows that I have ever been to require that every vendor be a FFL if they are selling firearms. And many states require that private sales undergo federal and, depending on the state, a local background check. Washington is one of them. I was just at my local gun shop yesterday, and two people came in to do a private sale/transfer. The shop ran the background check on the buyer, and ran the rifle through the local database to see if it was stolen.

I'm sure it's possible that some gun shows, in some communities, in some states have shennagins going on. Not the ones I'm familiar with. Any show run by the Washington Arms Collectors here in Washington, for example, will only allow sales of firearms to members. And members undergo a background check when joining. Then, at point of sale at a show, the dealer runs a NICS check, and a local one for pistols and semi auto rifles with removeable magazines. Those aren't instant.

Investigative reporters try and find ways to shock and surprise you. They will keep trying to find a seller, until they do. If they can't, no story, or a very short and boring one they don't air or print. Where's the money in that?

And there isn't a place in the US where a 13 year old can buy or legally own a pistol. So even going through with the illegal transaction made that kid a criminal, if in fact it was completed. Working on a story doesn't circumvent the law. How much time in juvie did the kid do?

Most of my purchases are from out of state, private sellers. Either they ship to my FFL, or they have a local FFL ship to mine. Then my FFL runs the background checks, and holds on to the firearm until I am clear. THEN I can take it home, and they collect their fee.

I explain all of this to illustrate that you just don't walk in to a gun shop, or a gun show, and walk out with a pistol without background check/s being run. Unliscened shows or parking lot deals do happen, but that's a local law enforcement issue. And many states do allow private sales without checks. If this bothers you, contact your state legislature. I'm conflicted on the issue.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 21, 2021 05:21PM
Racer I don’t know why you’re conflicted given that you’re aware loopholes exist, but thanks for the explanation of how it works in your circumstance.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: July 21, 2021 06:27PM
This story goes back a ways, but it involves sworn testimony in a murder case. The guy who shot my friend to death was arrested by the LAPD on a tip about six weeks after the shooting. He was taken into an interrogation room and interviewed with the recorder running. He implicated the guy who hired him and explained that the other guy had brought him a pistol (which turned out to be a 357 magnum loaded with hollow points). He killed Lawrence and shot (but failed to kill) Mary. He explained to the police that when he was done with the killing, but before he was arrested, he just sold the gun to some stranger on the street for fifty dollars.

I think of that sale as the ultimate collector's item -- the gun used in a homicide that was featured on the television news, on the television show that described crimes in hopes of getting viewer tips (two episodes actually) and got front page coverage in the newspapers. Somebody out there bought it for a pittance and surely did not know that he had a historical artifact.

I can remember going to the big gun show at the county fair grounds in Pomona. There was a lot of camping and survival gear for sale, and I think I bought some items. There were zillions of guns laid out on tables, and it wasn't obvious that there was any sort of regulation or policing going on. It was an era where you were supposed to register your purchase of a firearm, but it was clear that enforcement was relaxed at best. I would guess that enforcement is more strict nowadays, what with the publicity over the mass shootings, but it isn't surprising that people would be skeptical -- we have a lot of history of guns being sold without a lot of regulation.

I would guess that in the real world, there has been a lot of sales and trading among people who simply collect, and are not licensed dealers. I have no knowledge as to whether any of the high power semiautomatic rifles used in mass shooting events were obtained that way, except the case we all remember where some kid used the gun owned by his mother.

I'm perfectly willing to believe that most gun owners are not planning to do anything illegal with them, but it is frustrating to see them ignore or deny the death toll from gunshot wounds.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 07:58PM
Quote
deckeda
Racer I don’t know why you’re conflicted given that you’re aware loopholes exist, but thanks for the explanation of how it works in your circumstance.

My confliction is that since I have been proven to be "safe" by virtue of my CCW, making me wait to be checked yet again, from the same database, is goofy. But the legislature if full of ignorant lawmakers relying on lazy assistants who may have their own agendas, to educate them when writing legislation. The transfer thing is a royal PITA. Since my partner and I aren't married, just a piece of paper, I couldn't send her on a trip with one of my pistols. Letting her take it is a "transfer" Even though she has the safe combination, it isn't legal. But that piece of paper makes it legal. Domestic partners don't count. Lazy lawmakers.

I just want everyone on either side of this to understand how it works, or should work, at least where I am.

I certainly will acknowledge that in East Nutsack Arkansas, deals out of a pick-up bed or minivan happen at gunshows. That's a law enforcement issue. Or happen in an alley for that matter. The bottom line is criminals don't care enough about the law, or consequences, to not break the law. And when someone racks up felony charges, and gets to walk out of the courthouse with a monitoring anklet, and kill people while waiting on a court date for the original stuff, not being allowed to legally posses a firearm means nothing. Not being allowed to purchase a firearm means nothing.

Over 2 decades ago, at least here in Washington, Craigslist allowed firearm listings. I purchased several that way. Both times the seller required a peek at my Washington State driver's license, and my concealed carry permit. No carry permit, no sale. Not all private sales are sketchy. Not all private sellers and buyers are sketchy.

The stigma of firearms is unwarranted. Short of a one in 5,000,000 chance of a defective loaded firearm falling and going off, they are a completely inanimate and harmless collection of metal, plastic and wood. It isn't until someone picks one up and uses it with ill intent that they become dangerous. And leaving a loaded and cocked firearm just lying around is just a really bad idea. Loaded is fine, just not cocked, even with a safety.

If "liberals" want to get some co-operation from the "conservatives" they all need to stop being selfish irrational babies and craft legislation wisely and with some thought to the actual people they represent and work for, us. Both sides, and everyone in-between, need to stop @#$%& around and co operate.

The biggest issue is that far too many of the voters are ignorant and lazy as well. The wrong people get elected, and then get re elected.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 08:02PM
Quote
deckeda
Racer I don’t know why you’re conflicted given that you’re aware loopholes exist, but thanks for the explanation of how it works in your circumstance.

My confliction is that since I have been proven to be "safe" by virtue of my CCW, making me wait to be checked yet again, from the same database, is goofy. But the legislature if full of ignorant lawmakers relying on lazy assistants who may have their own agendas, to educate them when writing legislation. The transfer thing is a royal PITA. Since my partner and I aren't married, just a piece of paper, I couldn't send her on a trip with one of my pistols. Letting her take it is a "transfer" Even though she has the safe combination, it isn't legal. But that piece of paper makes it legal. Domestic partners don't count. Lazy lawmakers.

I just want everyone on either side of this to understand how it works, or should work, at least where I am.

I certainly will acknowledge that in East Nutsack Arkansas, deals out of a pick-up bed or minivan happen at gunshows. That's a law enforcement issue. Or happen in an alley for that matter. The bottom line is criminals don't care enough about the law, or consequences, to not break the law. And when someone racks up felony charges, and gets to walk out of the courthouse with a monitoring anklet, and kill people while waiting on a court date for the original stuff, not being allowed to legally posses a firearm means nothing. Not being allowed to purchase a firearm means nothing. [news.yahoo.com] "He pointed to a suspect in the shooting of six people, two of whom died. He said the person had seven felony arrests and at the time of the shooting and had been released from jail and placed on electronic monitoring after being charged with being a felon in possession of a firearm."

Over 2 decades ago, at least here in Washington, Craigslist allowed firearm listings. I purchased several that way. Both times the seller required a peek at my Washington State driver's license, and my concealed carry permit. No carry permit, no sale. Not all private sales are sketchy. Not all private sellers and buyers are sketchy.

The stigma of firearms is unwarranted. Short of a one in 5,000,000 chance of a defective loaded firearm falling and going off, they are a completely inanimate and harmless collection of metal, plastic and wood. It isn't until someone picks one up and uses it with ill intent that they become dangerous. And leaving a loaded and cocked firearm just lying around is just a really bad idea. Loaded is fine, just not cocked, even with a safety.

If "liberals" want to get some co-operation from the "conservatives" they all need to stop being selfish irrational babies and craft legislation wisely and with some thought to the actual people they represent and work for, us. Both sides, and everyone in-between, need to stop @#$%& around and co operate.

The biggest issue is that far too many of the voters are ignorant and lazy as well. The wrong people get elected, and then get re elected.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 21, 2021 08:42PM
don't let the deer catch you napping!

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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 09:07PM
You know there is a massive disconnect between lawmakers and law enforcers when the sheriffs refuse to enforce. 38 of the 39 Washington sheriffs support the federal 1st and 2nd Amendments over what state legislature says. I know the former King County sheriff personally. Have for decades. She would have been onboard too. GREAT drinking stories from when she ran Vice.

[www.kiro7.com]

The article says 37, but one more signed on. Right now it's just King County, representing Seattle, and Bellevue/Redmond. And the rest of King Co local PD supports those 38 sheriffs.

It's politics and job security vs supporting the Constitution. Happens in Seattle all the time.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2021 09:10PM by Racer X.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 21, 2021 09:40PM
Quote
Racer X
You know there is a massive disconnect between lawmakers and law enforcers when the sheriffs refuse to enforce. 38 of the 39 Washington sheriffs support the federal 1st and 2nd Amendments over what state legislature says. I know the former King County sheriff personally. Have for decades. She would have been onboard too. GREAT drinking stories from when she ran Vice.

[www.kiro7.com]

The article says 37, but one more signed on. Right now it's just King County, representing Seattle, and Bellevue/Redmond. And the rest of King Co local PD supports those 38 sheriffs.

It's politics and job security vs supporting the Constitution. Happens in Seattle all the time.

Racer your link talks about how local law enforcement likes to subvert both federal and state laws. Not traditionally a good look look, yeah?

But hey, let’s say for the sake of argument that federal and state laws are immoral, unethical and hurtful in other ways. Will this thread now turn into a discussion about protests and how best to effect them? Honest question.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 10:07PM
No, they are choosing to NOT enforce state laws that contradict federal law. Every time a police officer pulls someone over for speeding, a warning is technically ignoring the law. I'm sure there are some current/former LEOs who might chime in. They have discretion. Same with these county Sheriffs. They have the discretion.
Right now the Seattle City council has ordered Seattle PD to ignore state law, and not ticket and tow vehicles homeless are living in. Expired license, illegally parked, or parked too long in one place. I get it, sure. HOWEVER, you don't get to ignore laws you disagree with. Same thing with these 38 Sheriffs and their departments. When the state passes a law ignoring federal law, is it even an enforceable law? You see, the City Council doesn't have the discretion, the police dept, and it's officers do. They have been ORDERED to ignore state law.

Now, if the state legislature were to amend the WAC so that these state ordinances may be waived by local municipalities by vote of the population, for the good of the "homeless", then sure, go for it. I'd vote for that. But that hasn't happened. Arrogance or laziness. Maybe both.

Overturning the California Assault Weapon Ban is another example of a state possibly ignoring Federal Law. The Supremes will eventually decide.

The same with various states @#$%& around with voter registration and voter's rights. They are going to do it, until they are forced to stop.


A lot of these issues are really tough for me, because being conservative, people automatically assume I'm a Republican, and now, support Trump., and am a conservative-to-fanatic Christian. I find the past few decades, the Republican Party has become repugnant on the whole.

38 top law enforcement officers out of our 39 counties say they "publicly reassert our individual and collective duty to defend all of the constitutional rights of our citizens" If they have to say that publicly, then the laws being generated locally, and their "directives" must, in their opinions, be contrary to the Constitution. Otherwise, it didn't need to be said.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2021 10:23PM by Racer X.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 21, 2021 10:18PM
Roger that
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 21, 2021 11:00PM
"Racer your link talks about how local law enforcement likes to subvert both federal and state laws. Not traditionally a good look look, yeah? "

Their plan is to eschew state laws that contradict federal law. As it should be. I can assure you, and this is an EXTREME example, but if Washington State made murder legal, the Feds would step in. With a bunch of the issues at hand, the Feds haven't stepped in yet, or clarified through Supreme Court decisions, or declared marshal law, etc.

"Decriminalizing" pot is another example of states ignoring federal law. Regardless of your point of view, it's impossible to refute that it is, in fact, still illegal, and a controlled substance. Why all the collective states who have "legalized" it haven't forced the feds to universally legalize and tax it, is beyond me.

If you are in the military, and your Captain gives one order, and a General a different order, the General wins. A higher authority.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 21, 2021 11:28PM
It's a good thing to remember that local sheriffs are elected politicians first, LEOs second. How many local police chiefs have staked out the position that your sheriffs have taken.

The elected Los Angeles Sheriff has declared he won't enforce laws he doesn't agree with, is this the law and order environment you folks propose for the rest of us?
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 22, 2021 12:06AM
Nope. Just that far too many of the laws passed in Washington are federally questionable, and the lawmakers here have their own agenda disconnected from their constituents. There is a world of difference between disagree with, and unlawful law, or an unlawful order.

The City of Seattle city council and mayor ordered Seattle PD to ignore the law. Washington State voted to "decriminalize" marijuana, fully knowing that it IS illegal in the entire country. What is an officer of the law to do when laws are illegal? These sheriffs are stating what their intentions are, and when faced with opposing laws, they are upholding the higher laws. At least they are open and honest, and willing to put their words to paper, and be held accountable.

I can't remember which initiative it was that recently passed here in Washington State maybe 2 years ago, but the signature sheets were illegal. Something about gun control. However, the State Supreme Court can't weigh in until something becomes law. So now that it is "law" albeit illegal in its creation, they will eventually strike it down. They have already said so. It just hasn't come up in the queue. So, knowing this, should a LEO enforce it? It is an illegal law because the initiative process wasn't adhered to. The judges just haven't tossed it out yet. Bust someone, sentence them, incarcerate them, then release them, and pay restitution?



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 22, 2021 12:38AM
Elected county sheriffs are charged with enforcing local & state law, they have no mandate to enforce federal law unless they choose to do so.
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Re: Nosey Poll for Gun Owners to help DeusX
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 22, 2021 01:28AM
I know, my friend was county sheriff here. Then worked with Obama.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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