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COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 25, 2021 10:02AM
If you wonder how Trump can continue to fill his rallies after a failed reelection...

Large study finds COVID-19 is linked to a substantial drop in intelligence

psypost.org [www.psypost.org]

"People who have recovered from COVID-19 tend to score significantly lower on an intelligence test compared to those who have not contracted the virus, according to new research published in The Lancet journal EClinicalMedicine. The findings suggest that the SARS-CoV-2 virus that causes COVID-19 can produce substantial reductions in cognitive ability, especially among those with more severe illness."
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 25, 2021 10:28AM
Not terribly surprising ... corona definitely affects the nervous system. This damned virus is so fracking insidious.

[www.nature.com]

... I personally think it's the astrocytes getting infected that's the major issue...




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Robert M
Date: July 25, 2021 10:46AM
Acer,

Did a quick read of the article. Tests like this are kinda meaningless unless they offer before and after results. Meaning, how did the person do on the test(s) prior to contracting covid and how did he/she do after contracting covid? For all we know, some of these people would've performed poorly on the test even if they'd never contracted covid.

Robert
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: July 25, 2021 10:59AM
My wife has complained numerous times that things are harder to figure out and that she responds slower since she got out of the hospital last December.

I didn't win any husband awards for telling her it was all in her head.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 25, 2021 12:11PM
Quote
Robert M
Acer,

Did a quick read of the article. Tests like this are kinda meaningless unless they offer before and after results. Meaning, how did the person do on the test(s) prior to contracting covid and how did he/she do after contracting covid? For all we know, some of these people would've performed poorly on the test even if they'd never contracted covid.

Robert

Complete study here:
[www.thelancet.com]

I get what you are saying, and that would be a good way to support the hypothesis, but not the only way.

They are comparing the average scores of a cohort that had symptoms with a cohort that did not, sampled from the same population otherwise. Not the exact same people, true, but the large sample will still give you a satisitically useful comparison without having to retest the same people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2021 12:16PM by Acer.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: kj
Date: July 25, 2021 12:36PM
"If you wonder how Trump can continue to fill his rallies after a failed reelection..."

This is horsejunk, but I believe corona has an effect on cognition. They list some obvious limitations, but I'm interested to see whether those effects are persistent or permanent. Fatigue or even a UTI can cause acute dementia, so a lot of illnesses can cause cognitive decreases. But they aren't always permanent. They mention doing longitudinal studies, which would address Robert's concerns, and address whether people recover. We'll see if anyone actually does them.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 25, 2021 12:51PM
Even if you recover, that's a pretty scary drop. And it's not just while the infection is active, it's for some time afterward. Anecdotal accounts of "brain fog" for weeks or month afterward are common. A UTI will make one loopy, especially in the elderly, during the infection. But the mental confusion clears as the infection subsides. COVID is different.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 25, 2021 01:40PM
Quote
Acer
Quote
Robert M
Acer,

Did a quick read of the article. Tests like this are kinda meaningless unless they offer before and after results. Meaning, how did the person do on the test(s) prior to contracting covid and how did he/she do after contracting covid? For all we know, some of these people would've performed poorly on the test even if they'd never contracted covid.

Robert

Complete study here:
[www.thelancet.com]

I get what you are saying, and that would be a good way to support the hypothesis, but not the only way.

They are comparing the average scores of a cohort that had symptoms with a cohort that did not, sampled from the same population otherwise. Not the exact same people, true, but the large sample will still give you a satisitically useful comparison without having to retest the same people.


But then I could present the argument that intelligent people are less likely to get the virus than people with lower IQ. That could be for various reasons, such as they understand that the virus is real and take measures to avoid it, or have jobs that can be done from home, therefore are less likely to catch the virus.

There is no doubt the virus will mess up with your brain, the only question is how much. There will probably be many more studies on this virus for years to come. It isn't going away anytime soon.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: space-time
Date: July 25, 2021 01:41PM
Quote
Ombligo
My wife has complained numerous times that things are harder to figure out and that she responds slower since she got out of the hospital last December.

I didn't win any husband awards for telling her it was all in her head.


Well, it is all in her head, either figuratively or literarily, but it is in her head, right?
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: July 25, 2021 02:28PM
Quote
space-time
Quote
Ombligo
My wife has complained numerous times that things are harder to figure out and that she responds slower since she got out of the hospital last December.

I didn't win any husband awards for telling her it was all in her head.


Well, it is all in her head, either figuratively or literarily, but it is in her head, right?

That won't get him off the couch tonight.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: July 25, 2021 03:01PM
Quote
space-time
...I could present the argument that intelligent people are less likely to get the virus than people with lower IQ. That could be for various reasons, such as they understand that the virus is real and take measures to avoid it, or have jobs that can be done from home, therefore are less likely to catch the virus...

That's pretty much what I was thinking as well
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 25, 2021 03:51PM
These are valid concerns. Read the study itself to see if these variables were sufficiently controlled for. I think you'll find that they were.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 25, 2021 04:26PM
I will agree. My long haul symptom was “brain fog”. It got better when I got the vaccine, But I am stupider than I was before. It is kind of noticeable. The neurological challenges that I already had make it hard to measure.I am making more mistakes.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: August West
Date: July 25, 2021 06:34PM
Quote
Acer
These are valid concerns. Read the study itself to see if these variables were sufficiently controlled for. I think you'll find that they were.

+1



Apologies to the anonymous forum member affected by my previous sig pic. It was my personal pic of a country expressing great grief as their leader, one of the most recognized people in the world, lay on his deathbed 8 years ago, days before he died. Like a naif, I did not realize it was offensively political, I considered it an expression of deep emotion and a reminder of the mortal coil's nature; that we all, great and small, can only hope to make a difference in our short time here, no matter the personal cost.

I'll post another pic from my work in South Africa that is, hopefully, apolitical.

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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 25, 2021 07:38PM
Quote
cbelt3
I will agree. My long haul symptom was “brain fog”. It got better when I got the vaccine, But I am stupider than I was before. It is kind of noticeable. The neurological challenges that I already had make it hard to measure.I am making more mistakes.

I have no proof of this vis-a-vis corona, but I would strongly recommend anyone in this situation to consider upping their intake of omega-3's (especially DHA), which have been shown to be both cardioprotective and neuroprotective. Almost certainly it can't hurt, and it could possibly help.

Edit: I see someone is doing a clinical trial with the omega-3's for post-corona loss of smell: [clinicaltrials.gov]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2021 07:42PM by PeterB.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: July 25, 2021 07:44PM
Quote
PeterB
..I would strongly recommend anyone in this situation to consider upping their intake of omega-3's (especially DHA), which have been shown to be both cardioprotective and neuroprotective. Almost certainly it can't hurt, and it could possibly help.

Interesting. Just started adding fish oil again. I've been adding Vitamin D and COQ-10 to my multivitamin and Glucosamine adds. Hope it helps.

Now if the cats will stop sniffing my fishy burps... big grin smiley
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: July 25, 2021 08:32PM
What we do seem to know is that the virus affects people very differently, and no one long term symptom(s) will be quite alike another person's symptom/outcome.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 25, 2021 08:33PM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
PeterB
..I would strongly recommend anyone in this situation to consider upping their intake of omega-3's (especially DHA), which have been shown to be both cardioprotective and neuroprotective. Almost certainly it can't hurt, and it could possibly help.

Interesting. Just started adding fish oil again. I've been adding Vitamin D and COQ-10 to my multivitamin and Glucosamine adds. Hope it helps.

Now if the cats will stop sniffing my fishy burps... big grin smiley

Remember, you can get omega-3's from non-fish and non-animal sources too:

[www.webmd.com]
[www.healthline.com]
[www.everydayhealth.com]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Buzz
Date: July 25, 2021 11:24PM
Quote
cbelt3
Quote
PeterB
..I would strongly recommend anyone in this situation to consider upping their intake of omega-3's (especially DHA), which have been shown to be both cardioprotective and neuroprotective. Almost certainly it can't hurt, and it could possibly help.

Interesting. Just started adding fish oil again. I've been adding Vitamin D and COQ-10 to my multivitamin and Glucosamine adds. Hope it helps.

Now if the cats will stop sniffing my fishy burps... big grin smiley

Costco Wild Alaskan Fish Oil is amazingly fishy-burp-free. Once I optioned up from their (much) cheaper, super-fishy burp offering, there was no going back. Plus, w/ the wild stuff, you only need to take one gel daily, instead of two. Highly recommend. ~30% greater cost per dose, and well worth every bit of it.

    vs.

As to your, "I will agree. My long haul symptom was “brain fog”. It got better when I got the vaccine, But I am stupider than I was before. It is kind of noticeable. The neurological challenges that I already had make it hard to measure. I am making more mistakes."....

Probably nothing another whack upside the cranium couldn't resolve, or at least help...
something to knock the cobwebs out, y'know. cool smiley
==
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: July 26, 2021 03:47AM
and well worth every bit of it.


Because?

Or, why?

I've had a bit of a brain cloud myself, only in that I'm quite forgetful when trying to recall recent events.

They're sometimes very slow to surface.

Nothing like COVID induced diminished capacity, I blame it (correctly or otherwise, who knows) on my poor sleeping habits over decades, with a typical good night's sleep being five hours instead of a rocky four.





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We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody matters or nobody matters.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Buzz
Date: July 26, 2021 03:00PM
Quote
RAMd®d
and well worth every bit of it.


Because?

Or, why?

I've had a bit of a brain cloud myself, only in that I'm quite forgetful when trying to recall recent events.

They're sometimes very slow to surface.

Nothing like COVID induced diminished capacity, I blame it (correctly or otherwise, who knows) on my poor sleeping habits over decades, with a typical good night's sleep being five hours instead of a rocky four.

Because/why...?

Tolerance, or ease thereof, and definitely the lack of fishy burps.
I'm just assuming that the efficacy of of the various choices is similar for whatever the equivalent amounts of the same goodies that each have are. If it turns out one is better than another, then more consideration may be warranted. That aside, the wild stuff also allegedly has more/greater variety of good stuff for us, which bodes in its favor. Just Dr. Feelgood's opinion, not Dr. Knows-what-he's-talikng-about's opinion.
cool smiley
==
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: hal
Date: July 26, 2021 03:15PM
CNN reporter that suffers long covid writes of her experience today - it is TERRIFYING!

[www.cnn.com]

For me, the ordeal started in November, four weeks after I'd contracted Covid, two weeks after I was no longer testing positive and months before vaccines were widely available in the US. My body shook for five days before I checked myself into a North Carolina hospital. A surge of adrenaline coursed through me as I slogged through the packed waiting room and curled up on a linoleum bench to wait for someone to tell me what was wrong.

Two nights earlier, what felt like a brain zap jolted me awake. I staggered into the hallway on a funhouse tilt. My world, a Salvador Dali painting, distorted and oozing. Speak, I told myself, but the words came out drowsy and slow.

Only a year before, I was reporting on the Iowa caucus, gaggling with presidential candidates, interning with the White House press corps and becoming the first in my family to graduate from college -- at the top of my class. Despite taking precautions, my mother, father, husband and I contracted Covid-19 in November, six months after I landed a job at CNN.

Unlike many of the 181 million, globally, who survived coronavirus, I did not get better and my life did not return to "normal." In fact, what came next was much worse, even if it can't be detected by tests.

One month later and I was in the emergency room. "Your blood work looks great," the doctor said.

"I have this shaky, electric feeling in my stomach," I said. "I can't think. I can't sleep."

The doctor asked if I had seen the latest "60 Minutes" with Anderson Cooper on "long haulers."

"I've seen it. I work in news."

I had been producing coverage of post-Covid-19 symptoms with the "Erin Burnett OutFront" team. I had watched the episode, thinking this was only something that happened to other people. What others described in our interviews came to mind: "tremors," "brain fog," "paralysis."

She told me I was the third person she'd seen with this. The others landed in her emergency room two and three months post-infection. I was four weeks in from my initial infection.

The doctor handed me my medical papers and discharged me: 30-year-old female. Post-acute Covid syndrome. "Watch that episode," she advised, then left. I started to cry.

The tremors and vertigo had intensified. It'd been a week without sleep. And, with no medical treatment, I was essentially charged thousands for an emergency room visit and given a prescription for Anderson Cooper.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: AllGold
Date: July 26, 2021 03:53PM
Quote
hal
CNN reporter that suffers long covid writes of her experience today - it is TERRIFYING!

[www.cnn.com]

That's my worst nightmare. I was never particularly worried about Covid itself, it was always the potential for long Covid problems that made me REALLY not want to get it.

Then I got it anyway. I was so pissed. Fortunately, I was never hospitalized or even very sick. I don't think I have any long haul problems. Brain fog is a possibility, but it's definitely not severe. It's hard to tell how much brain fog, if any, is from Covid and how much is from me getting older.



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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: PeterB
Date: July 26, 2021 04:31PM
Quote
hal
CNN reporter that suffers long covid writes of her experience today - it is TERRIFYING!

[www.cnn.com]

For me, the ordeal started in November, four weeks after I'd contracted Covid, two weeks after I was no longer testing positive and months before vaccines were widely available in the US. My body shook for five days before I checked myself into a North Carolina hospital. A surge of adrenaline coursed through me as I slogged through the packed waiting room and curled up on a linoleum bench to wait for someone to tell me what was wrong.

Two nights earlier, what felt like a brain zap jolted me awake. I staggered into the hallway on a funhouse tilt. My world, a Salvador Dali painting, distorted and oozing. Speak, I told myself, but the words came out drowsy and slow.

Only a year before, I was reporting on the Iowa caucus, gaggling with presidential candidates, interning with the White House press corps and becoming the first in my family to graduate from college -- at the top of my class. Despite taking precautions, my mother, father, husband and I contracted Covid-19 in November, six months after I landed a job at CNN.

Unlike many of the 181 million, globally, who survived coronavirus, I did not get better and my life did not return to "normal." In fact, what came next was much worse, even if it can't be detected by tests.

One month later and I was in the emergency room. "Your blood work looks great," the doctor said.

"I have this shaky, electric feeling in my stomach," I said. "I can't think. I can't sleep."

The doctor asked if I had seen the latest "60 Minutes" with Anderson Cooper on "long haulers."

"I've seen it. I work in news."

I had been producing coverage of post-Covid-19 symptoms with the "Erin Burnett OutFront" team. I had watched the episode, thinking this was only something that happened to other people. What others described in our interviews came to mind: "tremors," "brain fog," "paralysis."

She told me I was the third person she'd seen with this. The others landed in her emergency room two and three months post-infection. I was four weeks in from my initial infection.

The doctor handed me my medical papers and discharged me: 30-year-old female. Post-acute Covid syndrome. "Watch that episode," she advised, then left. I started to cry.

The tremors and vertigo had intensified. It'd been a week without sleep. And, with no medical treatment, I was essentially charged thousands for an emergency room visit and given a prescription for Anderson Cooper.

Wow, just wow.

I'm beginning to think / wonder if what the issue is in the long-haulers, maybe something genetic, where their bodies mount a response to the virus ... and then there's some molecular mimicry going on, and they end up having some sort of autoimmune reaction.

This virus is clearly not your regular, run-of-the-mill coronavirus, that's for sure.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: RgrF
Date: July 26, 2021 05:00PM
The tremors and vertigo had intensified. It'd been a week without sleep. And, with no medical treatment, I was essentially charged thousands for an emergency room visit and given a prescription for Anderson Cooper.

Fog or not, she knows how to throw a punch through her writing.
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Re: COVID lowers intelligence - study.
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: July 27, 2021 06:49PM
My Cardiologist is fairly certain I had Covid during March of 2020. My biggest issues are some strange heartbeats(I just finished and mailed in my heart monitor today), trouble concentrating on pretty much anything and fatigue. She went over all my records since last March and that's her conclusion. She says I'm having ghost heartbeats or something like that. They did a ultrasound and I have a little bit of leakage past a few valves but she said not enough to be concerned about. She said they are seeing quite a few patients with the same heart issues that were actually diagnosed with Covid. I couldn't get them to test me, I wish I had gotten antibody tested before it was too late and then I'd know for sure.

BTW: My prostate biopsy has been scheduled for 3 weeks from now.



Grateful11
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