advertisement
Forums

 

AAPL stock: Click Here

You are currently viewing the 'Friendly' Political Ranting forum
If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 26, 2021 01:16PM
COVID tragedy close to home today, preventable but not the fault of the deceased, who was vaccinated and disabled, never left her home.

Family I have known all my life, friends with daughters. They are all medical professionals. Mom was being cared for at home, for Alzheimers.

One of the caregivers lied about being vaccinated and brought COVID to the house.

Mom caught it, was hospitalized with pneumonia, she was 80.
Because she had a DNR and our ICUs have waiting lists, they stopped her treatment and let her die so they could put a younger COVID patient in that bed. Certainly an unvaxxed one.

The daughters are certain she could have been saved.

So, no honor system for vaccination, check the CDC card. And, I want to revisit my Moms healthcare POA.

This time we are in, it's worse than 2020. It's hell.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: Speedy
Date: August 26, 2021 01:23PM
Words fail me…



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: August 26, 2021 01:25PM
Aarrgh.... that caregiver should be up for manslaughter at the least. Depraved indifference. The antivax knucklehead that refused to mask and coughed in my daughter's face gave our entire family COVID-19. Fortunately we survived.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/26/2021 01:26PM by cbelt3.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: hal
Date: August 26, 2021 01:25PM
that's horrible...
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 26, 2021 01:39PM
This is a terrible situation. For what it is worth the new hip term AND - allow natural death is being used more often.

And yes, the situation would’ve played out a lot differently without a heavily exhausted medical system.

Sue that caregiver.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 26, 2021 01:44PM
Quote
p8712
This is a terrible situation. For what it is worth the new hip term AND - allow natural death is being used more often.

And yes, the situation would’ve played out a lot differently without a heavily exhausted medical system.

Sue that caregiver.

We might need a new category of criminal fraud, vaccine fraud?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: AllGold
Date: August 26, 2021 01:53PM
That is criminal. Since when does a DNR mean don't treat a (living) patient?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 26, 2021 01:55PM
Quote
AllGold
That is criminal. Since when does a DNR mean don't treat a (living) patient?

yes, i though DNR meant don't use heroic measures?



If you want to fix our country, work with us in the states. statesproject.org

"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 26, 2021 02:15PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
p8712
This is a terrible situation. For what it is worth the new hip term AND - allow natural death is being used more often.

And yes, the situation would’ve played out a lot differently without a heavily exhausted medical system.

Sue that caregiver.

We might need a new category of criminal fraud, vaccine fraud?

Assuming this person is a licenseD provider - they likely had to show proof of vaccination for education and employment. Probably a good idea to dig into those records too.

Seems like a form of manslaughter to me? I am not a lawyer and don’t know what you would charge this person with.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 26, 2021 02:18PM
Quote
graylocks
Quote
AllGold
That is criminal. Since when does a DNR mean don't treat a (living) patient?

yes, i though DNR meant don't use heroic measures?

DNR means do not resuscitate. Meaning if the person dies we let them stay dead and do not code them. Further complicating things there are various levels. Like some people will only allow compressions, or chemical codes ( resuscitation via medication).

Honestly, everyone should be forced to watch a code. They’re terrible for everyone involved, and even if a patient is resuscitated it is usually with even worse consequences. They would be a lot less people shouting “do everything for grandma, she’s a fighter!” And a lot more peaceful death.

If you’ve got Covid and need to be resuscitated, you really don’t want to be. Just my experience.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: graylocks
Date: August 26, 2021 02:28PM
Quote
p8712

DNR means do not resuscitate. Meaning if the person dies we let them stay dead and do not code them. Further complicating things there are various levels. Like some people will only allow compressions, or chemical codes ( resuscitation via medication).

in this case it's hard to know the specifics but in this case it wasn't stated that the patient had died just that treatment had been stopped. That doesn't mean she had actually died. Do you think this was an appropriate time for DNR if that was the case?



If you want to fix our country, work with us in the states. statesproject.org

"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: Diana
Date: August 26, 2021 02:29PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
graylocks
Quote
AllGold
That is criminal. Since when does a DNR mean don't treat a (living) patient?

yes, i though DNR meant don't use heroic measures?

DNR means do not resuscitate. Meaning if the person dies we let them stay dead and do not code them. Further complicating things there are various levels. Like some people will only allow compressions, or chemical codes ( resuscitation via medication).

Honestly, everyone should be forced to watch a code. They’re terrible for everyone involved, and even if a patient is resuscitated it is usually with even worse consequences. They would be a lot less people shouting “do everything for grandma, she’s a fighter!” And a lot more peaceful death.

If you’ve got Covid and need to be resuscitated, you really don’t want to be. Just my experience.

In some instances, something that would be an easily recoverable condition, such as a collapsed lung, is considered as a DNR depending on how the doctor interprets it. A couple of years ago, my mom was in the hospital for pneumonia (amongst other things, long story) and she suffered a sudden collapsed lung. Since a DNR had been instituted, as in no heroic means, the attending let her suffer as the family couldn’t be immediately reached. I was either asleep or in the shower, I don’t know. My understanding is that the lung reinflated (on its own?) after about an hour or so. Had she been a victim of a car wreck, I’m not sure there would have been any hesitation but she was about 80 at the time. And of course, the DNR.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 26, 2021 02:33PM
Quote
Diana
Quote
p8712
Quote
graylocks
Quote
AllGold
That is criminal. Since when does a DNR mean don't treat a (living) patient?

yes, i though DNR meant don't use heroic measures?

DNR means do not resuscitate. Meaning if the person dies we let them stay dead and do not code them. Further complicating things there are various levels. Like some people will only allow compressions, or chemical codes ( resuscitation via medication).

Honestly, everyone should be forced to watch a code. They’re terrible for everyone involved, and even if a patient is resuscitated it is usually with even worse consequences. They would be a lot less people shouting “do everything for grandma, she’s a fighter!” And a lot more peaceful death.

If you’ve got Covid and need to be resuscitated, you really don’t want to be. Just my experience.

In some instances, something that would be an easily recoverable condition, such as a collapsed lung, is considered as a DNR depending on how the doctor interprets it. A couple of years ago, my mom was in the hospital for pneumonia (amongst other things, long story) and she suffered a sudden collapsed lung. Since a DNR had been instituted, as in no heroic means, the attending let her suffer as the family couldn’t be immediately reached. I was either asleep or in the shower, I don’t know. My understanding is that the lung reinflated (on its own?) after about an hour or so. Had she been a victim of a car wreck, I’m not sure there would have been any hesitation but she was about 80 at the time. And of course, the DNR.

For what it’s worth, there’s also comfort care And hospice which further confuses people.

I’ve had at least 3 dozen patients code since I started working ICU. It is never fun. I will never be coded. Ever.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: August 26, 2021 02:41PM
This illustrates exactly why I am grateful my mom passed a few years before COVID. I am 100% certain she would have died from COVID and she would have suffered MUCH more in that scenario than she actually did when she passed.



It is what it is.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 26, 2021 02:42PM
I think there is a misinterpretation of “DNR” and how it relates to the circumstances of the OP.

A DNR isn't even germane if the patient is alive.

If there were only one ICU available, it would go to a younger patient even before the pandemic, especially if the older patient had a serious preexisting condition like Alzheimers.

The critical factor here is that ICUs were NOT available because of the pandemic.

The woman didn't die because of her DNR, she died because there was no ICU for her. That would have be the case even if she had no DNR at all.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: August 26, 2021 03:27PM
I appreciate the feedback but I think there is some speculation that may not apply to this case.

I of course don't know what was communicated between this family and the doctors, so don't want to get hung up on DNR.

I don't have more details, just a very upset family who believe their Mom did not receive the hospital care they believed she would receive. They would have had her helicoptered to another city had they known our hospital was going to withhold treatment. She was healthy and had a good quality of life still.

We have never before had a hospital bed shortage in our county. We are a place known for very good care. It's all gone horribly wrong. Looking at you unvaxxed people.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: August 26, 2021 05:38PM
Quote
p8712
Honestly, everyone should be forced to watch a code. They’re terrible for everyone involved, and even if a patient is resuscitated it is usually with even worse consequences. They would be a lot less people shouting “do everything for grandma, she’s a fighter!” And a lot more peaceful death.

Someone starts to die peacefully, then is brought back just long enough to spend their last few semi-conscious minutes of life having the @#$@ beaten out of them. It's frequently horrific.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: prymsnap
Date: August 26, 2021 05:55PM
Quote
S. Pupp

Someone starts to die peacefully, then is brought back just long enough to spend their last few semi-conscious minutes of life having the @#$@ beaten out of them. It's frequently horrific.

This.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: p8712
Date: August 26, 2021 06:38PM
Quote
S. Pupp
Quote
p8712
Honestly, everyone should be forced to watch a code. They’re terrible for everyone involved, and even if a patient is resuscitated it is usually with even worse consequences. They would be a lot less people shouting “do everything for grandma, she’s a fighter!” And a lot more peaceful death.

Someone starts to die peacefully, then is brought back just long enough to spend their last few semi-conscious minutes of life having the @#$@ beaten out of them. It's frequently horrific.

Wait, wait, you mean you don’t just do five chest compressions, blow in their mouth, and maybe, maybe give a shot of adrenaline, and that’s it? The person doesn’t snap right up, fully conscious, no pain, and ask what happened? Maybe talk about going into a light and being pulled back? You mean television lied to me?
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: bfd
Date: August 26, 2021 09:47PM
We didn't need no stinkin' death panels after all…
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: sekker
Date: August 27, 2021 10:20AM
So sorry for your loss.

Thank you for sharing your experience so others can avoid this needless tragedy.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Re: If you or loved one has a DNR order, might want to revisit that
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: August 29, 2021 12:40PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
graylocks
Quote
AllGold
That is criminal. Since when does a DNR mean don't treat a (living) patient?

yes, i though DNR meant don't use heroic measures?

DNR means do not resuscitate. Meaning if the person dies we let them stay dead and do not code them. Further complicating things there are various levels. Like some people will only allow compressions, or chemical codes ( resuscitation via medication).

Honestly, everyone should be forced to watch a code. They’re terrible for everyone involved, and even if a patient is resuscitated it is usually with even worse consequences. They would be a lot less people shouting “do everything for grandma, she’s a fighter!” And a lot more peaceful death.

If you’ve got Covid and need to be resuscitated, you really don’t want to be. Just my experience.

Everyone should execute a DPOA (finances) & health care POA well but very few ever do.

Health care POA appoints an agent to make medical decisions for you when you can't.

And to be frank, having seen a younger loved one go to the end stages of dementia (no co-morbidities) my health care POA now prohibits any treatment beyond palliative care should I be diagnosed with any terminal disease, including dementia...preferably Hospice, ASAP.
Options:  Reply • Quote
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 234
Record Number of Users: 186 on February 20, 2020
Record Number of Guests: 5122 on October 03, 2020