AAPL stock: Click Here |
|
Tips and Deals ---- For Sale & Free Items ---- 'Friendly' Political Ranting |
Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 04, 2021 12:10PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Buzz
Date: September 04, 2021 03:24PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 04, 2021 03:34PM
|
Quote
But what exactly do we mean when we talk about a "fetal heartbeat" at six weeks of pregnancy? Although some people might picture a heart-shaped organ beating inside a fetus, this is not the case.
Rather, at six weeks of pregnancy, an ultrasound can detect "a little flutter in the area that will become the future heart of the baby," said Dr. Saima Aftab, medical director of the Fetal Care Center at Nicklaus Children's Hospital in Miami. This flutter happens because the group of cells that will become the future "pacemaker" of the heart gain the capacity to fire electrical signals, she said.
But the heart is far from fully formed at this stage, and the "beat" isn't audible; if doctors put a stethoscope up to a woman's belly this early on in her pregnancy, they would not hear a heartbeat, Aftab told Live Science. (What's more, it isn't until the eighth week of pregnancy that the baby is called a fetus; prior to that, it's still considered an embryo, according to the Cleveland Clinic.)
It's been only in the last few decades that doctors have even been able to detect this flutter at six weeks, thanks to the use of more-sophisticated ultrasound technologies, Aftab said. Previously, the technology wasn't advanced enough to detect the flutter that early on in pregnancy.
Although a lot of weight seems to be put on the detection of this flutter, "by no means does it translate to viability of the heart" or viability of the pregnancy, Aftab said.
The heart still has a lot of development to undergo before it is fully formed. Indeed, the entire first trimester of pregnancy is a time of "organogenesis," or the formation of organs, Aftab said.
After the detection of the flutter at six weeks, the heart muscle continues to develop over the next four to six weeks, undergoing the folding and bending that needs to happen for the heart to take its final shape, Aftab said.
"A lot of the heart development is still ongoing" during the first trimester, she said.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 04, 2021 04:03PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 04, 2021 04:04PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 04, 2021 04:19PM
|
Quote
p8712
Quote
pdq
Very true, Ted.
I guess one of my points is that this “heartbeat” marker is, like many things in the pro-life movement, an over-simplification chosen for emotional appeal.
Doesn’t this undermine the whole life begins at conception argument, anyway?
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 04, 2021 04:34PM
|
Quote
pdq
Very true, Ted.
I guess one of my points is that this “heartbeat” marker is, like many things in the pro-life movement, an over-simplification chosen for emotional appeal.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 04, 2021 06:11PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: PeterB
Date: September 04, 2021 06:47PM
|
Quote
pdq
Quote
p8712
Quote
pdq
Very true, Ted.
I guess one of my points is that this “heartbeat” marker is, like many things in the pro-life movement, an over-simplification chosen for emotional appeal.
Doesn’t this undermine the whole life begins at conception argument, anyway?
Another topic, but one has to ask: Are sperm and eggs dead? I would say clearly not. You can watch each sperm cell wriggle around and swim toward the egg…and if the egg were dead, I don’t think it would be able to make a baby.
Which is to say, I don’t buy the sharp delineation of sperm and egg —-> person! It’s a continuous process which goes onfor 9 months…well, since the beginning of life on earth. And if you consider any intervention which prevents that cycle as murder, you really need to consider any and all forms of contraception as such too, don’t you?
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 04, 2021 08:07PM
|
Quote
pdq
And if you consider any intervention which prevents that cycle as murder, you really need to consider any and all forms of contraception as such too, don’t you?
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 04, 2021 09:58PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 04, 2021 10:21PM
|
Quote
Ombligo
Quote
pdq
And if you consider any intervention which prevents that cycle as murder, you really need to consider any and all forms of contraception as such too, don’t you?
don't think that the end game of a sizable number of pro-lifers isn't to outlaw many forms of birth control.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 04, 2021 10:21PM
|
Quote
Ombligo
Quote
pdq
And if you consider any intervention which prevents that cycle as murder, you really need to consider any and all forms of contraception as such too, don’t you?
don't think that the end game of a sizable number of pro-lifers isn't to outlaw many forms of birth control.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Diana
Date: September 05, 2021 02:00AM
|
Quote
PeterB
Quote
pdq
Quote
p8712
Quote
pdq
Very true, Ted.
I guess one of my points is that this “heartbeat” marker is, like many things in the pro-life movement, an over-simplification chosen for emotional appeal.
Doesn’t this undermine the whole life begins at conception argument, anyway?
Another topic, but one has to ask: Are sperm and eggs dead? I would say clearly not. You can watch each sperm cell wriggle around and swim toward the egg…and if the egg were dead, I don’t think it would be able to make a baby.
Which is to say, I don’t buy the sharp delineation of sperm and egg —-> person! It’s a continuous process which goes onfor 9 months…well, since the beginning of life on earth. And if you consider any intervention which prevents that cycle as murder, you really need to consider any and all forms of contraception as such too, don’t you?
[www.youtube.com]
... I think we ALL know what this whole thing is really about. It's about enforcing "morality" on those nasty, sinful women who can't keep their legs together, and controlling their uteri from a distance. After all, even if they were raped or the victim of incest, we still want to control their reproductive tracts. And of course, the men concerned had nothing to do with it, nothing at all, so forget about them.![]()
Very Handmaid's Tale, indeed. Also very Orwellian in its implementation, turning people into secret police and encouraging them to report on each other.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 05, 2021 03:40AM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 05, 2021 07:01AM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: PeterB
Date: September 05, 2021 08:38AM
|
Quote
Diana
Quote
PeterB
Quote
pdq
Quote
p8712
Quote
pdq
Very true, Ted.
I guess one of my points is that this “heartbeat” marker is, like many things in the pro-life movement, an over-simplification chosen for emotional appeal.
Doesn’t this undermine the whole life begins at conception argument, anyway?
Another topic, but one has to ask: Are sperm and eggs dead? I would say clearly not. You can watch each sperm cell wriggle around and swim toward the egg…and if the egg were dead, I don’t think it would be able to make a baby.
Which is to say, I don’t buy the sharp delineation of sperm and egg —-> person! It’s a continuous process which goes onfor 9 months…well, since the beginning of life on earth. And if you consider any intervention which prevents that cycle as murder, you really need to consider any and all forms of contraception as such too, don’t you?
[www.youtube.com]
... I think we ALL know what this whole thing is really about. It's about enforcing "morality" on those nasty, sinful women who can't keep their legs together, and controlling their uteri from a distance. After all, even if they were raped or the victim of incest, we still want to control their reproductive tracts. And of course, the men concerned had nothing to do with it, nothing at all, so forget about them.![]()
Very Handmaid's Tale, indeed. Also very Orwellian in its implementation, turning people into secret police and encouraging them to report on each other.
Let’s not forget, Peter, that those sinful women who were raped or the victim of incest, who can’t keep their legs together, had to have enticed the man and thus their predicament is their own fault. /s
Actions speak loudly, in fact louder than their words.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 05, 2021 09:09AM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: September 05, 2021 10:27AM
|
Quote
RAMd®d
I say there is still a very large, disproportionate number (anything larger than 0) of men who believe sexual assaults don't happen to women who don't ask for it.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 05, 2021 10:44AM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 05, 2021 10:54AM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: kj
Date: September 07, 2021 05:29PM
|
Quote
Carnos Jax
Well technically he’s right, if you’re going to outlaw abortion, why make exceptions if your argument is abortion is murder? Of course we know that’s just a cover argument for their perverse desire to control women. If they were sincere, then they would have quickly outlawed capital punishment, as that is a low hanging fruit. To this day I have managed to shut up every pseudo ’pro-lifer’ with that argument.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 07, 2021 06:02PM
|
Quote
kj
I'm actually appalled at the assumptions you guys are making about people. I tend to think what they are doing in Texas is bad for the anti-abortion cause, but I also have a hard time joining in the criticism of Texas when so many awful things are assumed about me and others I know who are anti-abortion.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 07, 2021 07:40PM
|
Quote
kj
I'm anti-abortion, and I don't have a perverse (or any, really) desire to control women. I am anti-capital punishment...
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 07, 2021 07:49PM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Janit
Date: September 08, 2021 07:11AM
|
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 08, 2021 09:00AM
|
Quote
Janit
And most people who are pro-choice would prefer to see a reduction in unwanted pregnancies as a result of improvements in sex education and availability of contraceptives. That's why we bristle at the label "pro-abortion."
We all suffer when nuance is not recognized.
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: September 08, 2021 09:16AM
|
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Janit
And most people who are pro-choice would prefer to see a reduction in unwanted pregnancies as a result of improvements in sex education and availability of contraceptives. That's why we bristle at the label "pro-abortion."
We all suffer when nuance is not recognized.
![]()
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: pdq
Date: September 08, 2021 10:13AM
|
Quote
DeusxMac
Hoping for a day when there's no cause to perform abortion (have I phrased that correctly?)
Re: Let's take a minute and think about what the Texas law is all about
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 09, 2021 08:43AM
|