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Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 09, 2021 10:13AM
announcement at 5pm today.

Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
[www.cnbc.com]

WASHINGTON – President Joe Biden is expected to announce Thursday evening a new requirement for federal employees to receive the coronavirus vaccine, a source familiar with the matter told NBC News.

The executive order will also extend to contractors that work with the U.S. government, impacting a total of 2.1 million employees.

The person, who spoke on the condition of anonymity, said the decision will be announced during the president’s address at 5 p.m. EST.

Earlier this year, Biden ordered all federal employees to prove their coronavirus vaccination status or submit to a series of rigorous safety protocols.

Thursday’s order removes the option for rigorous testing, a development that comes as the United States struggles to contain the highly contagious delta variant.

“This is an American tragedy. People are dying, and will die, who don’t have to die,” Biden said during a White House address in July.

“This is not about red states and blue states. It’s literally about life and death,” he said. “With freedom comes responsibility. Your decision to be unvaccinated impacts someone else.”
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 09, 2021 10:25AM
My freedumb!
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: September 09, 2021 10:58AM
Already filled out my DD 3150...
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 09, 2021 11:08AM
Finally!

I’d love to see military and every police force similarly mandated. The message could not be more crystal clear: We want you to be able to perform your jobs, which includes keeping others safe.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 09, 2021 11:17AM
So will this include all Senate and Congress members and their staffs?

What will be the penalty for failing to follow this mandate?
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: September 09, 2021 11:35AM
Those who refuse are welcome to build a community of the unvaccinated in the deserts of Arizona. The same goes for unvaccinated gen pop.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: September 09, 2021 11:44AM
I don't have a problem with it but I can see it going to the Supreme Court.



Grateful11
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 09, 2021 11:47AM
Quote
GGD
So will this include all Senate and Congress members and their staffs?

Probably not. They are in the legislative branch, Biden's order will only apply to executive branch employees. However that is the bulk of the Federal workforce.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/09/2021 12:39PM by JoeH.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 09, 2021 11:48AM
Quote
GGD
So will this include all Senate and Congress members and their staffs?

No, they are in the legislative branch of government. Biden can only make these kinds of policies for the executive branch.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 09, 2021 02:24PM
saw this handy phrase to use when the 'responses' come in:

"Its comical watching inbred space laser morons try to grapple with science."
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: numbered
Date: September 09, 2021 03:22PM
I was just looking at the Wapo article. All federal workers, of course, but also *all federal contractors* which is several million more people.

Plus, all health care workers at any institution which takes dollars from Medicare or Medicaid (which is 99% of them).

And then the all companies with more than 100 employees....

We shall see.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Michael
Date: September 09, 2021 04:14PM
About time...
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 09, 2021 04:16PM
It's mostly just going to tick off a chunk of people who voted for Trump so there's probably not much political downside for Biden in doing this.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 09, 2021 04:17PM
Quote
Ted King
It's mostly just going to tick off a chunk of people who voted for Trump so there's probably not much political downside for Biden in doing this.

Yep.
If the carrots don’t work, you have to use the stick.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 09, 2021 04:59PM
Quote
Grateful11
I don't have a problem with it but I can see it going to the Supreme Court.

Precedent for the reasons behind mandating are solidly on the “pro” side. I’m not saying something couldn’t reach SCOTUS, but there’s no version of this that makes Covid vax different from the vax already mandated.

If someone tries to make an argument that vaccinations for school children are somehow different than ones allowing adult employment, that can’t go very far given that the underlying principles are the same.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 09, 2021 05:05PM
Our idiot Governor has already tweeted, apparently, that GA will be exploring all avenues to challenge these new mandates. RollingEyesSmiley5





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 09, 2021 05:29PM
Looks like all healthcare will require fully vaxxed staff to get medicare and medicaid funds. Good.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: September 09, 2021 05:57PM
Quote
numbered
I was just looking at the Wapo article. All federal workers, of course, but also *all federal contractors* which is several million more people.

I saw that, too. I'm curious to see what definition of "federal contractor" will be used. My employer performs work in both the commercial and goverment (local, state and federal) spaces; I would assume we would qualify as a federal contractor on that basis.

However, not everybody at my company is involved in the performance of federal work - I'm fairly certain this decree won't (can't?) apply to them. I'm guessing the requirement will apply only to people whose need to be physically present in federal spaces during the performance of federal work.



It is what it is.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 09, 2021 06:13PM
If someone gets fired for not being vaccinated, will they qualify for unemployment? Should they? Should vaccination be a requirement for collecting unemployment if any federal funds are used?
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 09, 2021 06:54PM
Quote
GGD
If someone gets fired for not being vaccinated, will they qualify for unemployment? Should they? Should vaccination be a requirement for collecting unemployment if any federal funds are used?

That is a good question.
I think it would be fair to say that they do not get unemployment, but not sure what the law is on this.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 09, 2021 07:06PM
A SCOTUS decision following the 1918 pandemic upheld the government's power and ability to mandate vaccines - so there's that.

Have neither the time nor inclination to research and link to it - so there's also that
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 09, 2021 07:09PM
I think this is a bold move. Its not clear to me how it will play out. I would have been content to leave it be. We're going to watch a bunch of nutcases get wacky. There will likely be unified republican opposition.



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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 09, 2021 07:33PM
Quote
mattkime
I think this is a bold move. Its not clear to me how it will play out. I would have been content to leave it be. We're going to watch a bunch of nutcases get wacky. There will likely be unified republican opposition.

S Pupp and Lemon Drop relocate to the gates of hell

On the bright side, it looks like 17 million healthcare workers will have to get the vaccine or lose their jobs. I’d rather work shortstaffed than work with idiots that will not take it.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 09, 2021 08:00PM
Quote
p8712
I’d rather work shortstaffed than work with idiots that will not take it.

I remember reading about a staten island hospital with 50% vaccination rate among the staff. Its a real possibility.



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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 09, 2021 08:05PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
p8712
I’d rather work shortstaffed than work with idiots that will not take it.

I remember reading about a staten island hospital with 50% vaccination rate among the staff. Its a real possibility.

Every single facility everywhere is shortstaffed already, so it’s not as big a deal as it sounds. And, God forbid, we lose a lot of staff, it will only accelerate the collapse of the system which one for something better to be built in its place.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 09, 2021 08:44PM
by the time the stays are lifted by the courts and SCOTUS issues an opinion, we will all be dead of old age.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 09, 2021 08:49PM
Quote
RgrF
A SCOTUS decision following the 1918 pandemic upheld the government's power and ability to mandate vaccines - so there's that.

Have neither the time nor inclination to research and link to it - so there's also that

You'd think that 1918 decision would matter to a contemporary court but this Supreme Court seems like they don't care much about precedent when it comes to assisting the reactionary agenda items that are hot desires of current conservatives.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: September 09, 2021 10:56PM
Quote
mattkime
I think this is a bold move. Its not clear to me how it will play out. I would have been content to leave it be. We're going to watch a bunch of nutcases get wacky. There will likely be unified republican opposition.

Bring 'em on. This decision is long overdue.

We may in fact end up dealing those nutcases, but at least we'll be moving in the right direction as we do.



It is what it is.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 10, 2021 09:38AM
Quote
deckeda
If someone tries to make an argument that vaccinations for school children are somehow different than ones allowing adult employment, that can’t go very far given that the underlying principles are the same.

Zucht v. King
"United States Supreme Court found that... (a) school district... could constitutionally exclude unvaccinated students from attending the schools..."
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 10, 2021 09:42AM
Quote
RgrF
A SCOTUS decision following the 1918 pandemic upheld the government's power and ability to mandate vaccines - so there's that.

Have neither the time nor inclination to research and link to it - so there's also that

Jacobson v. Massachusetts
"United States Supreme Court... upheld the authority of states to enforce compulsory vaccination laws."
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 10, 2021 11:27AM
Quote
GGD
If someone gets fired for not being vaccinated, will they qualify for unemployment? Should they? Should vaccination be a requirement for collecting unemployment if any federal funds are used?

I see it is being handled as an OHSA requirement. Can't collect unemployment if you don't comply and lose your job.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 10, 2021 11:43AM
Quote
p8712
Quote
mattkime
I think this is a bold move. Its not clear to me how it will play out. I would have been content to leave it be. We're going to watch a bunch of nutcases get wacky. There will likely be unified republican opposition.

S Pupp and Lemon Drop relocate to the gates of hell

On the bright side, it looks like 17 million healthcare workers will have to get the vaccine or lose their jobs. I’d rather work shortstaffed than work with idiots that will not take it.

I'm fine with Henry heading for the gates of hell, as long as he doesn't come back.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 10, 2021 12:51PM
Quote
p8712
Quote
GGD
If someone gets fired for not being vaccinated, will they qualify for unemployment? Should they? Should vaccination be a requirement for collecting unemployment if any federal funds are used?

I see it is being handled as an OHSA requirement. Can't collect unemployment if you don't comply and lose your job.

Nice.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: hal
Date: September 10, 2021 01:09PM
From politico:

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates
In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

[www.politico.com]

Henning Jacobson, a 50-year-old minister, put his faith in his own liberty. Back in his native Sweden, he had suffered a bad reaction to a vaccine as an infant, struggling for years with an angry rash. Now he was an American citizen, serving as pastor of the Swedish Lutheran Church in Cambridge, Massachusetts. That gave him the full protections of the U.S. Constitution.

So when the Cambridge board of health decided that all adults must be vaccinated for smallpox, Jacobson sought refuge in the Constitution’s promise that no state shall “deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

The year was 1904, and when his politically charged legal challenge to the $5 fine for failing to get vaccinated made its way to the Supreme Court, the justices had a surprise for Rev. Jacobson. One man’s liberty, they declared in a 7-2 ruling handed down the following February, cannot deprive his neighbors of their own liberty — in this case by allowing the spread of disease. Jacobson, they ruled, must abide by the order of the Cambridge board of health or pay the penalty.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 10, 2021 03:24PM
Quote
hal
From politico:

The Surprisingly Strong Supreme Court Precedent Supporting Vaccine Mandates
In 1905, the high court made a fateful ruling with eerie parallels to today: One person’s liberty can’t trump everyone else’s.

[www.politico.com]

Henning Jacobson, a 50-year-old minister, put his faith in his own liberty. Back in his native Sweden, he had suffered a bad reaction to a vaccine as an infant, struggling for years with an angry rash. Now he was an American citizen, serving as pastor of the Swedish Lutheran Church in Cambridge, Massachusetts. That gave him the full protections of the U.S. Constitution.

So when the Cambridge board of health decided that all adults must be vaccinated for smallpox, Jacobson sought refuge in the Constitution’s promise that no state shall “deprive any person of life, liberty or property without due process of law.”

The year was 1904, and when his politically charged legal challenge to the $5 fine for failing to get vaccinated made its way to the Supreme Court, the justices had a surprise for Rev. Jacobson. One man’s liberty, they declared in a 7-2 ruling handed down the following February, cannot deprive his neighbors of their own liberty — in this case by allowing the spread of disease. Jacobson, they ruled, must abide by the order of the Cambridge board of health or pay the penalty.


“There are manifold restraints to which every person is necessarily subject for the common good,” read the majority opinion. “On any other basis, organized society could not exist with safety to its members. Society based on the rule that each one is a law unto himself would soon be confronted with disorder and anarchy.” SCOTUS
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 10, 2021 04:01PM
If Covid was killing 20% of the people that got infected, most of the freedumb people would be calling for infected people and unvaccinated people to be placed in concentration camps. Okay that's a bit too much hyperbole but closer to the truth than most of them would want to believe. Remember the panic - with Trump as a head chicken head - around people coming back from Africa with even a suspicion of having Ebola? Once again we hear some people talk that anyone should be able to do what they want about masks and vaccines as though that is an inviolable principle but if they faced a 20% fatality rate of a communicable disease they'd ditch that "inviolable principle" in a heartbeat.



e pluribus unum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/10/2021 04:17PM by Ted King.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 10, 2021 04:40PM
Quote
Ted King
If Covid was killing 20% of the people that got infected, most of the freedumb people would be calling for infected people and unvaccinated people to be placed in concentration camps. Okay that's a bit too much hyperbole but closer to the truth than most of them would want to believe. Remember the panic - with Trump as a head chicken head - around people coming back from Africa with even a suspicion of having Ebola? Once again we hear some people talk that anyone should be able to do what they want about masks and vaccines as though that is an inviolable principle but if they faced a 20% fatality rate of a communicable disease they'd ditch that "inviolable principle" in a heartbeat.

You would find yourself making rational argument to an irrational group of cultists - good luck with that.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: September 10, 2021 05:15PM
Alas, the Jacobson case is not much of a guide. There's no question that states could order every person to be vaccinated. And little question that the feds cannot exercise such power.

Doing it as an OSHA regulation—assuming some circuit court doesn't stay the enforcement—is sneaking it through the Commerce Clause gate opened up a couple of decades ago.
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 10, 2021 05:47PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
Ted King
If Covid was killing 20% of the people that got infected, most of the freedumb people would be calling for infected people and unvaccinated people to be placed in concentration camps. Okay that's a bit too much hyperbole but closer to the truth than most of them would want to believe. Remember the panic - with Trump as a head chicken head - around people coming back from Africa with even a suspicion of having Ebola? Once again we hear some people talk that anyone should be able to do what they want about masks and vaccines as though that is an inviolable principle but if they faced a 20% fatality rate of a communicable disease they'd ditch that "inviolable principle" in a heartbeat.

You would find yourself making rational argument to an irrational group of cultists - good luck with that.

Yes. I wasn't trying to make a rational argument to be used to convince them to change their minds. I agree that is pretty much a lost cause. I meant it only as like a social observation.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 10, 2021 11:10PM
Quote
Mr Downtown
Doing it as an OSHA regulation—assuming some circuit court doesn't stay the enforcement—is sneaking it through the Commerce Clause gate opened up a couple of decades ago.

Maddow did one of her excellent historical-perspectives discussions at the start of her Thursday night show. The legal precedents go back even further.

Time 8:49
[youtu.be]
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Re: Biden to mandate Covid vaccine for federal workers, removing option to get tested instead
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 11, 2021 11:48PM
Quote
rgG
Quote
GGD
If someone gets fired for not being vaccinated, will they qualify for unemployment? Should they? Should vaccination be a requirement for collecting unemployment if any federal funds are used?

That is a good question.
I think it would be fair to say that they do not get unemployment, but not sure what the law is on this.

Refusing to follow company policy, resulting in termination, does NOT qualify for unemployment, in Washington State. Same with breaking the law, or legal regulations.



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