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Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: hal
Date: September 11, 2021 12:48PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: bfd
Date: September 11, 2021 01:07PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 11, 2021 01:08PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: hal
Date: September 11, 2021 01:26PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 11, 2021 02:23PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 11, 2021 02:56PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 11, 2021 03:04PM
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Quote
rgG
My sister in law’s birthday is on 9/11
My birthday is on January 6
Both our birthdays have been forever sullied by people trying to destroy our country.
She and I were discussing it, and she actually thought mine was the more heinous event. I am not sure.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: September 11, 2021 03:23PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 11, 2021 03:41PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: hal
Date: September 11, 2021 03:42PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Acer
Date: September 11, 2021 03:45PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 11, 2021 03:53PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 11, 2021 03:59PM
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vision63
Quote
rgG
My sister in law’s birthday is on 9/11
My birthday is on January 6
Both our birthdays have been forever sullied by people trying to destroy our country.
She and I were discussing it, and she actually thought mine was the more heinous event. I am not sure.
Your birthdays were made to be those dates in order to counter terrorism. That's how special you guys are.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 11, 2021 04:00PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 11, 2021 04:35PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 11, 2021 04:44PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 11, 2021 05:00PM
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RgrF
770,000-801,000 are the estimated death totals from the wars launched by Bush the Lesser.
Trump may have inflicted lasting damage to our institutions but nothing he did, even the COVID neglect, can compare with what Bush did.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: graylocks
Date: September 11, 2021 05:54PM
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DeusxMac
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mrbigstuff
The worst president in a century (possibly longer)...
I'm pretty sure tRump has taken that trophy with ease.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: September 11, 2021 06:50PM
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Quote
Sarcany
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RgrF
770,000-801,000 are the estimated death totals from the wars launched by Bush the Lesser.
Trump may have inflicted lasting damage to our institutions but nothing he did, even the COVID neglect, can compare with what Bush did.
Really??
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 11, 2021 07:11PM
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Quote
RgrF
770,000-801,000 are the estimated death totals from the wars launched by Bush the Lesser.
Trump may have inflicted lasting damage to our institutions but nothing he did, even the COVID neglect, can compare with what Bush did.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 11, 2021 08:04PM
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Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
RgrF
770,000-801,000 are the estimated death totals from the wars launched by Bush the Lesser.
Trump may have inflicted lasting damage to our institutions but nothing he did, even the COVID neglect, can compare with what Bush did.
The corrosive effect of tRump is a far greater threat to the United States' survival than Bush's war(s).
The inner rot to the system caused by tRumpism may well be permanently disabling, if not fatal.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: $tevie
Date: September 11, 2021 08:48PM
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I think over 4,500,000 dead, putting brain deads on the Supreme Court, and a serious attempt to destroy our democracy make Bush's crimes pale in comparison.Quote
RgrF
770,000-801,000 are the estimated death totals from the wars launched by Bush the Lesser.
Trump may have inflicted lasting damage to our institutions but nothing he did, even the COVID neglect, can compare with what Bush did.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: September 11, 2021 10:26PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 11, 2021 10:29PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 11, 2021 10:45PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 11, 2021 11:47PM
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mrbigstuff
And, sorry, this blaming of T**** for all of the covid deaths is juvenile. MA, NY and CA all have "moderate or liberal" governors and those states fared plenty bad. I blame the governors at least as much as the moron.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: September 12, 2021 06:45AM
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vision63
Quote
mrbigstuff
And, sorry, this blaming of T**** for all of the covid deaths is juvenile. MA, NY and CA all have "moderate or liberal" governors and those states fared plenty bad. I blame the governors at least as much as the moron.
Yeah, that's what it ended up being. But our response didn't have to start the way it did. A president lying about the severity and deadliness of the impending catastrophe is on that guy's lap. Pointing fingers like a baby. He was the president of the country literally blocking our response. No, it's not all on him. It was on his watch.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 08:17AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 12, 2021 08:59AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 09:47AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 12, 2021 10:07AM
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Quote
Lemon Drop
3. Dropping an atom bomb on the Japanese. A military science experiment that never would have been done to Europeans. At the end of a war we were going to win.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: September 12, 2021 10:25AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 10:31AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 12, 2021 10:59AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 12, 2021 11:07AM
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Quote
Lemon Drop
Bad presidents, a more expansive view that includes non-white lives.
1. Any president who did not outlaw slavery. That's everybody from Washington on, until Lincoln. Still America's original and worst sin.
2. Any president who allowed genocide of tribal peoples, kidnapping of their children, theft of their lands and resources, and who did not honor our treaties with them. Well this was still going on in the 1970s and hasn't ended yet.
3. Dropping an atom bomb on the Japanese. A military science experiment that never would have been done to Europeans. At the end of a war we were going to win.
4. Vietnam.
5. Our decades long war against the Muslim world.
6. Mismanagement of the pandemic.
7. Deterioration of our democratic institutions and civil rights. This story is still being written, we'll see how we all respond.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 11:11AM
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Quote
p8712
Quote
Lemon Drop
Bad presidents, a more expansive view that includes non-white lives.
1. Any president who did not outlaw slavery. That's everybody from Washington on, until Lincoln. Still America's original and worst sin.
2. Any president who allowed genocide of tribal peoples, kidnapping of their children, theft of their lands and resources, and who did not honor our treaties with them. Well this was still going on in the 1970s and hasn't ended yet.
3. Dropping an atom bomb on the Japanese. A military science experiment that never would have been done to Europeans. At the end of a war we were going to win.
4. Vietnam.
5. Our decades long war against the Muslim world.
6. Mismanagement of the pandemic.
7. Deterioration of our democratic institutions and civil rights. This story is still being written, we'll see how we all respond.
#8 - Any president that sacrificed the environment for short-term economic gains. (Will be on the lis tin 50 years)
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Fritz
Date: September 12, 2021 11:14AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: September 12, 2021 11:30AM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 12, 2021 12:15PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 12, 2021 12:25PM
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Quote
Blankity Blank
Quote
vision63
Quote
mrbigstuff
And, sorry, this blaming of T**** for all of the covid deaths is juvenile. MA, NY and CA all have "moderate or liberal" governors and those states fared plenty bad. I blame the governors at least as much as the moron.
Yeah, that's what it ended up being. But our response didn't have to start the way it did. A president lying about the severity and deadliness of the impending catastrophe is on that guy's lap. Pointing fingers like a baby. He was the president of the country literally blocking our response. No, it's not all on him. It was on his watch.
Make no mistake, Trump was the PRIMARY cause of the severity of the pandemic in this country, and, while to a lesser extent, by example as leader of a massively influential super power, emboldened similar behavior around the world.
Trump engaged in and encouraged
- The gross under estimation of the seriousness of the outbreak
- Was a drag on the supply lines for critical PPE for healthcare workers
- Literally suggested it might just ‘go away’
- Undercut the authority and voice of health agencies and even his own appointed experts
- Was the star player in the disruption of the adoption of even simple, but valuable acts such as masking and social distancing. Even going so far, after becoming infected himself, to stage a ridiculous and melodramatic photo op of publicly removing his mask the minute he was back at the White House when released from the hospital.
- Unbelievably held what turned out to be his own official and non official super spreader events
- Propped up unproven and ludicrous treatments and lent authority to literal crackpots contaminating the conversation around the emergency
The list goes on and is both abominably long and shameful. The stench of his time in office still clings to so much around us, let’s not start whitewashing his train wreck of a tenure already.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 12, 2021 12:28PM
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Quote
DeusxMac
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Lemon Drop
3. Dropping an atom bomb on the Japanese. A military science experiment that never would have been done to Europeans. At the end of a war we were going to win.
I suspect most folks are unaware that neither of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan was the deadliest bombing raid of WWII.
“On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse by the USAAF and is known as the Great Tokyo Air Raid in Japan. Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.”
[en.m.wikipedia.org])
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 01:17PM
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JoeH
Quote
DeusxMac
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Lemon Drop
3. Dropping an atom bomb on the Japanese. A military science experiment that never would have been done to Europeans. At the end of a war we were going to win.
I suspect most folks are unaware that neither of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan was the deadliest bombing raid of WWII.
“On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse by the USAAF and is known as the Great Tokyo Air Raid in Japan. Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.”
[en.m.wikipedia.org])
The fire storms from bombings of Dresden and other German cities resulted in similar numbers of casualties, so they were not exempt as "Europeans".
And the atomic bombs were planned for use over Europe against Germany, they just were not ready soon enough. By the time they were ready, any need for them being used was already considered unnecessary due to the success of the D-Day invasion and other military actions including the air war. The Soviet forces on the East were also advancing quite steadil
y and quickly.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 12, 2021 03:50PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 04:06PM
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Quote
sekker
I don’t think we have the time to fully debate the morality of the A bombs.
But it’s not accurate to say that they did not impact Europe. Once the US demonstrated not one but two such horrors, the assumption was number 3 and 4 etc were ready to go to end WWII wherever the US had troops in the field.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 12, 2021 04:20PM
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Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
sekker
I don’t think we have the time to fully debate the morality of the A bombs.
But it’s not accurate to say that they did not impact Europe. Once the US demonstrated not one but two such horrors, the assumption was number 3 and 4 etc were ready to go to end WWII wherever the US had troops in the field.
Nobody here said they didn't impact Europe. The ushering in of the nuclear weapons era changed the entire world. What I said is that the military leaders of the Manhattan Project , namely Leslie Groves, had no plan to use it on Germany, for a number of reasons.
"Debating the morality of the A bombs" can be pretty succinct for me.
The first was not needed to end the war with Japan. They were ready to end the war. The second was a war crime.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 12, 2021 06:10PM
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Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
JoeH
Quote
DeusxMac
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Lemon Drop
3. Dropping an atom bomb on the Japanese. A military science experiment that never would have been done to Europeans. At the end of a war we were going to win.
I suspect most folks are unaware that neither of the two atomic bombs dropped on Japan was the deadliest bombing raid of WWII.
“On the night of 9/10 March 1945, the United States Army Air Forces (USAAF) conducted a devastating firebombing raid on Tokyo, the Japanese capital city. This attack was code-named Operation Meetinghouse by the USAAF and is known as the Great Tokyo Air Raid in Japan. Bombs dropped from 279 Boeing B-29 Superfortress heavy bombers burned out much of eastern Tokyo. More than 90,000 and possibly over 100,000 Japanese people were killed, mostly civilians, and one million were left homeless, making it the most destructive single air attack in human history.”
[en.m.wikipedia.org])
The fire storms from bombings of Dresden and other German cities resulted in similar numbers of casualties, so they were not exempt as "Europeans".
And the atomic bombs were planned for use over Europe against Germany, they just were not ready soon enough. By the time they were ready, any need for them being used was already considered unnecessary due to the success of the D-Day invasion and other military actions including the air war. The Soviet forces on the East were also advancing quite steadil
y and quickly.
I am only speaking about atomic weapons. I'm pretty sure we all know about Dresden.
Germany was never going to be the target of the new experimental weapon. As confirmed by the Secretary of War.
Leslie R. Groves, “Memorandum to the Secretary of War,” April 23, 1945, Records of the Manhattan Engineer District, 1942-1948, Record Group 77, National Archives, Washington, D.C.
"Our previous hopes that an implosion type of bomb might be developed in the late spring of 1945 have now been dissipated by scientific difficulties. . . .
“While our plan of operations is based on the more certain, more powerful, gun type bomb, it also provides for the use of the implosion type bombs as soon as they become available. The target is and was always expected to be Japan. A composite group of the 20th Air Force has been organized and specially trained and equipped.”
Leslie R. Groves, Memorandum, “Military Policy Committee,” Records of the Manhattan Engineer District, 1942–1948, Record Group 77, National Archives, Washington, D.C. “MPC Minutes, 5 May 43 mtg”
"The point of use of the first bomb was discussed and the general view appeared to be that its best point of use would be on a Japanese fleet concentration in the Harbor of Truk [in the Pacific, north of New Guinea]. General Styer suggested Tokio but it was pointed out that the bomb should be used where, if it failed to go off, it would land in water of sufficient depth to prevent easy salvage. The Japanese were selected as they would not be so apt to secure knowledge from it as would the Germans.”
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 12, 2021 06:12PM
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rgG
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
sekker
I don’t think we have the time to fully debate the morality of the A bombs.
But it’s not accurate to say that they did not impact Europe. Once the US demonstrated not one but two such horrors, the assumption was number 3 and 4 etc were ready to go to end WWII wherever the US had troops in the field.
Nobody here said they didn't impact Europe. The ushering in of the nuclear weapons era changed the entire world. What I said is that the military leaders of the Manhattan Project , namely Leslie Groves, had no plan to use it on Germany, for a number of reasons.
"Debating the morality of the A bombs" can be pretty succinct for me.
The first was not needed to end the war with Japan. They were ready to end the war. The second was a war crime.
I have mixed feelings about the A bombs. I most likely would not be here if they had not been deployed, as my dad was in the navy stationed at Pearl Harbor. He was an 18 year old Fireman First Class, which means he worked below decks keeping the engines running. Just before they dropped the bombs, he was issued a weapon. He said they were being prepped as cannon fodder for what they all assumed was to be the imminent invasion of Japan.
I do believe that Japan would have been defeated without the A bombs, but I also think many more America lives, probably my dad's included, would have been lost. War is a nasty business with lots of decisions that I don’t think I could make.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 13, 2021 10:27PM
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Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 13, 2021 11:03PM
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RgrF
Intellectually incurious and morally bankrupt Trump didn't initiate the virus. Had there been a way to grift a solution, he'd have been on it.
Re: Pres Bush II just compared 9/11 hijackers to Jan 6 insurrectionists
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 14, 2021 12:21AM
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