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Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 10:57AM
Are we going to become a country where only some regions are healthy and safe, and others just accept sickness and death at high rates? Indefinitely? How does this end, and does it end?

So yesterday having lunch with SIL, Mom and 2 aunts. Talking about COVID of course. SIL says they will soon have to decide whether or not to cancel my niece's wedding, scheduled for June 2022. She plans to invite 300 people. Both have big extended families, lots of school friends.

SiL said they won't have the wedding as planned if disease transmission has not decreased greatly by late November.

Deposits, nonrefundable costs, etc, they don't want to risk it.

The whole reason this thing got pushed forward to next summer was COVID. They've already been engaged a year.

This is where we are in our region with people refusing vaccine.

Choosing sickness and death over recovery. There are family doctors in my town prescribing ivermectin and not pushing vaccine, nor getting it themselves.

One of my aunts said if things don't improve maybe we'll all just move. This lady has lived in SC her entire life. She lives in a house built by her grandparents. They should not have to move.

I hate this but I've run out of ideas. I feel robbed by mobs of idiots.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 19, 2021 11:35AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
I hate this but I've run out of ideas. I feel robbed by mobs of idiots.

Darwin will address this problem in the long term.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Janit
Date: September 19, 2021 12:04PM
Will the vaccinated enclaves within unvaccinated regions begin building walls to keep COVID out?
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: p8712
Date: September 19, 2021 12:06PM
Quote

How does this end, and does it end?

With the collapse of the medical/hospital system in these places.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 19, 2021 12:10PM
They've apparently already collapsed in Idaho and Alaska .
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Spock
Date: September 19, 2021 12:11PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
SIL says they will soon have to decide whether or not to cancel my niece's wedding, scheduled for June 2022. She plans to invite 300 people. Both have big extended families, lots of school friends.

SiL said they won't have the wedding as planned if disease transmission has not decreased greatly by late November.

Deposits, nonrefundable costs, etc, they don't want to risk it.

1. Insist that all guests are vaccinated, no exceptions.

2.Use the power of the pocket book. Insist that any vendor and their staff are fully vaccinated, no exceptions (make it a term of any contract with a huge penalty clause for non compliance).



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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 19, 2021 12:27PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Are we going to become a country where only some regions are healthy and safe, and others just accept sickness and death at high rates? Indefinitely? How does this end, and does it end?

It doesn't end for a long time. It's becoming endemic.

Because travelers will carry variants all around the country and around the world, no place is safe from it. Eventually it will probably mutate into something less deadly, or one way or another we'll develop sufficient herd immunity throughout most of the world that it will be less deadly. Even in those communities where they haven't vaccinated many.

There will be a lot of suffering up until then.



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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: PeterB
Date: September 19, 2021 01:05PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
SIL says they will soon have to decide whether or not to cancel my niece's wedding, scheduled for June 2022. She plans to invite 300 people. Both have big extended families, lots of school friends.

SiL said they won't have the wedding as planned if disease transmission has not decreased greatly by late November.

Deposits, nonrefundable costs, etc, they don't want to risk it.

1. Insist that all guests are vaccinated, no exceptions.

2.Use the power of the pocket book. Insist that any vendor and their staff are fully vaccinated, no exceptions (make it a term of any contract with a huge penalty clause for non compliance).

That's certainly one way to deal with it, but the other -- what I was going to suggest -- is, why not make the wedding small and intimate, rather than a huge hoopla-driven, catered affair. They'd save a lot of money that way, which could go towards something really important, like a down payment on a house or something, and the small and intimate thing has caught on even before corona hit. [www.intimateweddings.com]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 01:26PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
SIL says they will soon have to decide whether or not to cancel my niece's wedding, scheduled for June 2022. She plans to invite 300 people. Both have big extended families, lots of school friends.

SiL said they won't have the wedding as planned if disease transmission has not decreased greatly by late November.

Deposits, nonrefundable costs, etc, they don't want to risk it.

1. Insist that all guests are vaccinated, no exceptions.

2.Use the power of the pocket book. Insist that any vendor and their staff are fully vaccinated, no exceptions (make it a term of any contract with a huge penalty clause for non compliance).

You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC. I doubt they would have any vendors of they tried that.

The guests include many relatives over 60. In upstate SC right now people in that age group are not doing large events even if vaccinated.

That's really the rub, the vaccine has not delivered the feeling of safety we expected.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 01:36PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
SIL says they will soon have to decide whether or not to cancel my niece's wedding, scheduled for June 2022. She plans to invite 300 people. Both have big extended families, lots of school friends.

SiL said they won't have the wedding as planned if disease transmission has not decreased greatly by late November.

Deposits, nonrefundable costs, etc, they don't want to risk it.

1. Insist that all guests are vaccinated, no exceptions.

2.Use the power of the pocket book. Insist that any vendor and their staff are fully vaccinated, no exceptions (make it a term of any contract with a huge penalty clause for non compliance).

That's certainly one way to deal with it, but the other -- what I was going to suggest -- is, why not make the wedding small and intimate, rather than a huge hoopla-driven, catered affair. They'd save a lot of money that way, which could go towards something really important, like a down payment on a house or something, and the small and intimate thing has caught on even before corona hit. [www.intimateweddings.com]

A big event is what this couple wants. And have wanted for years. And we their family want it too, it felt like a bridge to a brighter future to look forward to, at the risk of being corny and sentimental.

They both have big, close extended families who mostly live in the area, and a lot of friends. If they have to go small it's going to be because they were forced to by the pandemic situation.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 19, 2021 01:37PM
Go small or go home



Seriously how many of those 300 guests really want to be there - even without the virus complicating things?

Take it down to immediate family and 5-10 special friends of the couple (not the mothers). The couple is there for each other, everyone else is just flotsam.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: hal
Date: September 19, 2021 01:44PM
hell, just get married in a small ceremony then throw a HUGE party later to celebrate with everyone. This is a no-brainer to me...

but that said.... it IS a crappy situation that EVERYONE thought would be behind us by now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 01:44PM by hal.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 01:47PM
Quote
Ombligo
Go small or go home



Seriously how many of those 300 guests really want to be there - even without the virus complicating things?

Take it down to immediate family and 5-10 special friends of the couple (not the mothers). The couple is there for each other, everyone else is just flotsam.

No.

See my comment above.

"Immediate family" would exclude me, her aunt, and her many cousins she grew up with.. On his side, just siblings, their dates, aunts, uncles and first cousins is 75 people.

There's nothing wrong and a lot right with big inclusive weddings, if that is what you want.
The cost per person is optional.

Couples who have big weddings are more likely to have long happy marriages. (Proven) The theory is that this indicates a strong social support system for the couple. Also probably parents with resources to help.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 19, 2021 01:55PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
A big event is what this couple wants. And have wanted for years. And we their family want it too...

We all "want" things to be better, but wanting doesn't change circumstances. No doubt many engaged American couples "wanted" different circumstances in 1940-46.

"The World War II draft operated from 1940 until 1946... During this time, more than 10 million men had been inducted into military service."
"...service commitments were set at the length of the war plus six months."

"...the ratio of men drafted... one out of five. The commission's goal was to have nine million men in the armed forces by the end of 1943. This facilitated the massive requirement of up to 200,000 men per month and would remain the standard for the length of the war."
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: September 19, 2021 01:56PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC.

Didn't Biden do just that a week or so ago? For businesses of a certain size, at least?



It is what it is.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 02:16PM
Quote
N-OS X-tasy!
Quote
Lemon Drop
You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC.

Didn't Biden do just that a week or so ago? For businesses of a certain size, at least?

Yes, expected to be for private employers with 100 or more employees. Rules not issued by DOL yet.

No business involved in this wedding has over 100 employees.

State govt solidly opposes all mandates.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 19, 2021 02:31PM
Couples who have big weddings are more likely to have long happy marriages. (Proven) The theory is that this indicates a strong social support system for the couple. Also probably parents with resources to help.

Not sure there is a true cause and effect relationship there, “proven” or not, but if they want a big wedding I am sorry they might not be able to have it.
A lot of people are getting creative with when/how they eventually get their big ceremony. A lot of my daughter’s friends are dealing with this right now.

Anecdotally, we got married in Vegas with only the minister and a witness.
My SIL had a big BLOWOUT wedding a couple of years before us.
Guess who is still married and who is divorced. smiling smiley





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 02:48PM
Quote
rgG
Couples who have big weddings are more likely to have long happy marriages. (Proven) The theory is that this indicates a strong social support system for the couple. Also probably parents with resources to help.

Not sure there is a true cause and effect relationship there, “proven” or not, but if they want a big wedding I am sorry they might not be able to have it.
A lot of people are getting creative with when/how they eventually get their big ceremony. A lot of my daughter’s friends are dealing with this right now.

Anecdotally, we got married in Vegas with only the minister and a witness.
My SIL had a big BLOWOUT wedding a couple of years before us.
Guess who is still married and who is divorced. smiling smiley

Congrats to you two!

Their reason for delaying the date was to allow time for this thing to end. I don't any of us thought June 2022 was going to be an issue, and maybe it won't.

The study out of Emory might fit you and your sister in law.

The conclusion is that expensive weddings result in. higher divorce rates.

But having more guests correlates to lower divorce.

So, have a big cheap wedding. Bbq and beer in the backyard.

[www.cnn.com]
[papers.ssrn.com]
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: AllGold
Date: September 19, 2021 03:20PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
There are family doctors in my town prescribing ivermectin and not pushing vaccine, nor getting it themselves.

We should be going after their medical licenses.



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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: rgG
Date: September 19, 2021 03:32PM
Big cheap wedding seems like an oxymoron, these days.
Even a small to medium sized wedding seems to cost tens of thousands of dollars.

BTW, we got married in Vegas but had a big party about a month or so later, which we hosted ourselves at our house. Catered BBQ and all the fixings, plus beer and wine.

Maybe they can get married then have a big party afterwards.
A party doesn’t require as much lead time, a venue won’t overcharge, just because it’s a wedding, and I’ll bet you people will have more fun. The reception is the fun part, you just sit through the wedding to get to the reception anyway.

But, I know a lot of people are fixated on a big wedding. I personally think they are a huge waste of money and that they are more stress than anyone should willing put themselves though, but to each his own.





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 03:34PM by rgG.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 03:41PM
Quote
AllGold
Quote
Lemon Drop
There are family doctors in my town prescribing ivermectin and not pushing vaccine, nor getting it themselves.

We should be going after their medical licenses.

It's not against the law though it has to be unethical. Docs do prescribe stuff for off label use fairly often. There is an FDA approved human version of ivermectin. This is how common the prescriptions have become.

"Even the drug company Merck, which manufactures ivermectin, has issued a statement saying there's no scientific basis for a potential therapeutic effect against COVID.

The FDA warned about the drug's use for COVID in March.

But that hasn't stopped people from seeking it out. In a new communication to its Health Alert Network, the CDC says cases of overdose and misuse are rising.

More than 88,000 prescriptions were written for the drug ivermectin in the week ending August 13, an increase of 2,400% over the weekly average prior to the COVID-19 pandemic."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 03:41PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: PeterB
Date: September 19, 2021 03:58PM
I was going to add that, in addition to the small, intimate wedding, they could have a big blow-out party, once (hopefully) everything gets a bit better.

The problem is that we don't know exactly when that'll happen.

They could also get really creative in terms of what they want to do --

[www.herecomestheguide.com]
[health.clevelandclinic.org]
[www.brides.com]
[www.cnbc.com]
[www.nytimes.com]

... the last thing you want is to have the wedding become a super-spreader event. Weddings should be happy occasions, not death sentences for attendees. This becomes an especial issue if, as is typical for weddings, there are people in attendance who might be high-risk.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: September 19, 2021 04:39PM
Large, flat space with 2 or 3 large (very large) tents. That's where the money should go. Then buffet served food. I think that's possible, especially if we're talking next summer. The dancing may be an issue but perhaps they can dedicate one tent just to that and everyone can spaced apart. Of course, if they are locked into a tight tent already under contract, none of this applies.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 19, 2021 05:12PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Couples who have big weddings are more likely to have long happy marriages. (Proven) The theory is that this indicates a strong social support system for the couple. Also probably parents with resources to help.

Some studies have shown a correlation between large weddings and longer happy marriages, but they do not add up to "(Proven)". Theories abound for why this appears to be the case, but don't see any conclusive research to support any of them.

Against the size factor, they have also found that those who spent more than $20,000 on a wedding divorced at a rate 1.6 times that of those who spent less. So you have that counteracting the size factor here.

Finally those who spent money on a good honeymoon trip appear to do better afterwards.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Spock
Date: September 19, 2021 05:37PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC. I doubt they would have any vendors of they tried that.

You can negotiate any damn term you like in the contract as long as it's not illegal. Any attempt by the backward state of SC to curtail your right would be unconstitutional. Invite firms to quote and make vaccination a term of the contract. That way you'll find out who values your business and who is prepared to turn down a 300 person gig.



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 05:49PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Lemon Drop
Couples who have big weddings are more likely to have long happy marriages. (Proven) The theory is that this indicates a strong social support system for the couple. Also probably parents with resources to help.

Some studies have shown a correlation between large weddings and longer happy marriages, but they do not add up to "(Proven)". Theories abound for why this appears to be the case, but don't see any conclusive research to support any of them.

Against the size factor, they have also found that those who spent more than $20,000 on a wedding divorced at a rate 1.6 times that of those who spent less. So you have that counteracting the size factor here.

Finally those who spent money on a good honeymoon trip appear to do better afterwards.

Yes I referenced the 2014 Emory study above.

Their conclusion is that big, cheap weddings with modest engagement rings result in the fewest divorces.

The only reason I brought this up was to counter the notion that weddings with a lot of guests are somehow bad.

That was an era of push back against the tyranny of Bride's magazine and Debeers diamonds. Remember "you're supposed to spend 2 months salary on the ring?" Those costs kept going up until the pandemic, which has put a lot of wedding vendors out of business.

My niece planned her wedding for June 2022, after getting engaged in Nov. 2020, expecting that the need for Covid precautions would have faded.

They do have a move honeymoon in the virgin islands planned, which she paid for working nights for a law firm. He bought the ring. They are very practical and hard working kids who want to include the people they love in the big day.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 05:52PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC. I doubt they would have any vendors of they tried that.

You can negotiate any damn term you like in the contract as long as it's not illegal. Any attempt by the backward state of SC to curtail your right would be unconstitutional. Invite firms to quote and make vaccination a term of the contract. That way you'll find out who values your business and who is prepared to turn down a 300 person gig.

Aren't you from Florida?
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Janit
Date: September 19, 2021 06:02PM
Quote
rgG
Couples who have big weddings are more likely to have long happy marriages. (Proven) The theory is that this indicates a strong social support system for the couple. Also probably parents with resources to help.

Not sure there is a true cause and effect relationship there, “proven” or not, but if they want a big wedding I am sorry they might not be able to have it.
A lot of people are getting creative with when/how they eventually get their big ceremony. A lot of my daughter’s friends are dealing with this right now.

I agree. Correlation is not causation. It's more likely that having a strong social support system and parents with resources are the things lead to the strong marriage, not the party itself.

In other words, postponing the party should not cause the marriage to fail. One would hope that a true "strong social support system" would be present both in good times and in bad times, including the flexibility to adapt to the times.

Seems wiser to elope now and throw a big bash reception when it becomes safe.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 19, 2021 06:20PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC. I doubt they would have any vendors of they tried that.

You can negotiate any damn term you like in the contract as long as it's not illegal. Any attempt by the backward state of SC to curtail your right would be unconstitutional. Invite firms to quote and make vaccination a term of the contract. That way you'll find out who values your business and who is prepared to turn down a 300 person gig.

This ^^

A business in backwards states filled with Deplorables cannot mandate vaccination but the customer can mandate anything they want from the business as long as it is legal. The customer cannot discriminate based on race. They can discriminate based on vaccine status. Unvaccinated employees are not a protected class.

The annual gathering of organ transplant recipients can demand to see vaccination proof of all the vendors and employees.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Spock
Date: September 19, 2021 07:02PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
You can't mandate vaccines on a business on SC. I doubt they would have any vendors of they tried that.

You can negotiate any damn term you like in the contract as long as it's not illegal. Any attempt by the backward state of SC to curtail your right would be unconstitutional. Invite firms to quote and make vaccination a term of the contract. That way you'll find out who values your business and who is prepared to turn down a 300 person gig.

Aren't you from Florida?

Yep, the backward state of Florida, home of DeathSantis and two of the slimiest senators in the country.



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 19, 2021 07:12PM
I know that customers can make requests regarding vaccines.
I only allow vaccinated aids and cleaners in our house. The agency doesn't yet require their staff to be vaccinated. No agency in the area does.

I found this about vaccine status and wedding guests and workers. They also suggest having a required rapid test station at the venue. If affordable.

[www.weddingwire.com]

My original post was not about how to mitigate the risk but I appreciate the suggestions which are all good. . It was simply the feeling of setback that we even have to have the conversation.
Things may be much better by next spring. We don't know.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/19/2021 07:13PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 19, 2021 07:35PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
.. the vaccine has not delivered the feeling of safety we expected.

Even seniors should feel safe if vaxxed. You and "the family' want a big party, so have one.

I guess the question is if the family is overall willing to potentially lose some members by inviting them while knowing they are not protected. We know the anti-vaxxers won't take a warning at this point, so it's not really about protecting them per se.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 20, 2021 02:38PM
It takes 2 to tango. I'm not going to pretend that my side doesn't contribute to the problem of national division. If we ever hope to come together as a nation, there will be concessions on both sides.
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Re: Knocked back
Posted by: Michael
Date: September 20, 2021 03:09PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lemon Drop
SIL says they will soon have to decide whether or not to cancel my niece's wedding, scheduled for June 2022. She plans to invite 300 people. Both have big extended families, lots of school friends.

SiL said they won't have the wedding as planned if disease transmission has not decreased greatly by late November.

Deposits, nonrefundable costs, etc, they don't want to risk it.

1. Insist that all guests are vaccinated, no exceptions.

2.Use the power of the pocket book. Insist that any vendor and their staff are fully vaccinated, no exceptions (make it a term of any contract with a huge penalty clause for non compliance).

We're planning on going to my nephew's wedding in Florida in Nov. The reception site in Miami Beach requires PCR tests within 48 hours of the reception and the result emailed to the place. They're supposed to have a list at the door and security will put wristbands on those admitted. We're trying to figure out the most efficient and cheapest way to get a fast(ish) PCR test. Miami-Dade County has a number of free testing sites. We'll try those. If it comes down to it we can go to the airport and pay to get one of the very fast PCR tests.
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