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Political dilemma
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 20, 2021 10:46AM
If. 45 runs in next election..voters against Biden
But don’t want to vote for 45. A real dilemma for Republicans that don’t cling to Trumpism (which is still alive and well)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 10:49AM by samintx.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 20, 2021 11:37AM
Aren’t you describing literally every election?



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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 20, 2021 11:39AM
That Biden will run again is no sure thing.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 20, 2021 11:45AM
I don’t envy Republicans. The party has no identifiable platform except authoritarianism and obstruction. If voting conservatives want something else they are keeping it a secret.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 20, 2021 12:12PM
Quote
deckeda
I don’t envy Republicans. The party has no identifiable platform except authoritarianism and obstruction. If voting conservatives want something else they are keeping it a secret.
There was NO platform in 2020. None.
There won't be a platform in 2024.
The actions speak for themselves. The Republicans no longer stand for any actual conservative causes.

Size of government ? Bigger and meaner the better.

Citizen freedoms ? Oh heck no. Not for non whites and females.

Law and Order ? Only for white males. For everyone else police are an occupying force.

Fiscal responsibility ? The public debt has ballooned since Clinton was president, thanks to Republican tax cuts and the endless war spending. Debt is always 'The other guy's fault". Republicans happily spend taxpayer dollars on underage girls and cocaine.

Conservative approach to the environment ? Puhleeze... Rape, Pillage, and Burn is the model for Republicans.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 20, 2021 12:31PM
Quote
mattkime
Aren’t you describing literally every election?

No because we are not dealing with a Trump every election….or his ideology.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 20, 2021 12:47PM
Quote
samintx
Quote
mattkime
Aren’t you describing literally every election?

No because we are not dealing with a Trump every election….or his ideology.

Trump's takeover of the GQP* is nearly complete so in a sense primary voters are always dealing with Trump. QOP* primary winners will be carrying the Trump flag into general elections, so there's that.



*Cant decide which is the more descriptive or snarky.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 20, 2021 01:04PM
Quote
samintx
Quote
mattkime
Aren’t you describing literally every election?

No because we are not dealing with a Trump every election….or his ideology.

He's not that special. You give him too much credit.



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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 20, 2021 01:05PM
Newsom’s win helped solidify the idea that enjoying the throwing of feces isn’t enough of a reason to vote Republican. Although tougher, if McAuliffe can claw his way back that’ll help also.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: davester
Date: September 20, 2021 01:07PM
A major problem with elections in a two party plurality voting system is that people don't understand what the function of their vote is. It is not, as most people think, to vote for the person you most like. That is what you do in parliamentary systems or in ranked-choice voting. In a system like ours, the only valid function of a vote is to vote against the person you like least. It is downright foolish to throw your vote away on someone who has no chance of winning. That's more or less equivalent to voting against your interests. Here's an interesting article regarding why the US election system is so screwed up:
[medium.com]



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/20/2021 01:32PM by davester.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 20, 2021 02:40PM
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 20, 2021 02:57PM
Thinking it over....I have zero sympathy for anyone who has a hard time choosing between Trump and nearly anyone else.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 20, 2021 04:29PM
Quote
RgrF
That Biden will run again is no sure thing.

agree smiley

Ought to be sufficient time for other potential Democratic candidates to present themselves.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 20, 2021 05:45PM
Sleepy Joe will run again as long as he remains healthy.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 20, 2021 08:02PM
If Biden does not run for relection, he will be the first president since Rutherford B. Hayes to voluntarily not run after serving one single term. That is 140 years of precedent he would go against.

(Johnson, Truman, & Coolidge first served out a dead president's term)



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Rolando
Date: September 20, 2021 08:47PM
Quote
Ombligo
If Biden does not run for relection, he will be the first president since Rutherford B. Hayes to voluntarily not run after serving one single term. That is 140 years of precedent he would go against.

(Johnson, Truman, & Coolidge first served out a dead president's term)

I'm not sure Joe will not choose to retire, letting Harris for President as incumbent!

In 2016, The Libertarian Party ran TWO retired Republican Governors for President/VP. Although they got twice as many votes as the Green Party, a certain NY Senator running for President was unable to cash in on that! I don't know of any real non-Trumpy Republicans are tough enough to run against Trumpo. Maybe Mitt Romney?



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 20, 2021 08:54PM
Quote
Rolando
I'm not sure Joe will not choose to retire, letting Harris for President as incumbent!?

Unless unanticipated events occur, I don't think Harris could win the nomination.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Rolando
Date: September 20, 2021 09:19PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Rolando
I'm not sure Joe will not choose to retire, letting Harris for President as incumbent!?

Unless unanticipated events occur, I don't think Harris could win the nomination.

Disagree. Harris is extremely popular among the rank & file D's. Hopefully she will be smart enough to unite the party rather than pushing the actual liberal wing down!



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 20, 2021 10:39PM
Quote
Rolando
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Rolando
I'm not sure Joe will not choose to retire, letting Harris for President as incumbent!?

Unless unanticipated events occur, I don't think Harris could win the nomination.

Disagree. Harris is extremely popular among the rank & file D's. Hopefully she will be smart enough to unite the party rather than pushing the actual liberal wing down!

Harris "is" a liberal. Why would she push herself and people who share her philosophies down? You may want to check your adjectives.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Rolando
Date: September 20, 2021 11:28PM
Harris is most definitely on the Center Right wing of the party.

Check her record as a CA Senator and even previously as a District Atty. She is no more liberal than Hillary Clinton. I'd classify both as slightly to the right of Eisenhower. Definitely to the right of Biden.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 20, 2021 11:39PM
Quote
Rolando
Harris is most definitely on the Center Right wing of the party.

Check her record as a CA Senator and even previously as a District Atty. She is no more liberal than Hillary Clinton. I'd classify both as slightly to the right of Eisenhower. Definitely to the right of Biden.

You think I don't know her record as a District Attorney, Attorney General or Senator of California? My state? A woman from my city?

I know her programs, her initiatives, her pet policies and even her history as a prosecutor since 1998? I know this woman. She's the "center" of nothing.

Do you know the records of the "liberals" that you hope she won't push down?

Can you articulate their policies that shouldn't get "pushed down?"
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 20, 2021 11:41PM
Quote
Rolando
Harris is most definitely on the Center Right wing of the party.

Check her record as a CA Senator and even previously as a District Atty. She is no more liberal than Hillary Clinton. I'd classify both as slightly to the right of Eisenhower. Definitely to the right of Biden.

agree smiley
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 20, 2021 11:46PM
Quote
RgrF
Quote
Rolando
Harris is most definitely on the Center Right wing of the party.

Check her record as a CA Senator and even previously as a District Atty. She is no more liberal than Hillary Clinton. I'd classify both as slightly to the right of Eisenhower. Definitely to the right of Biden.

agree smiley

You agree with your own speculation. You can't even specify "how' anything you "believe" is accurate or true. Just words that come out of your mouth (just politically).
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: September 21, 2021 12:40AM
I am fine with the vast majority of Harris' background, except for letting a whole bunch of mortgage barons off the hook (cough*Mnuchin*cough). She is missing a dozen or more private million dollar speeches to Wall Street insiders to get to the right of Clinton.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: RgrF
Date: September 21, 2021 12:50AM
I thought Rolando was commenting on the public perception of the Harris image, I think he had that perception down pretty well. Still do.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 21, 2021 02:20AM
Quote
RgrF
I thought Rolando was commenting on the public perception of the Harris image, I think he had that perception down pretty well. Still do.

The public's perception critical of Harris is based on not knowing any aspect of her existence. Just going with the flow. Es: Harris, allowing rape kits to become contaminated by a troubled cop, resulting in spoiling hundreds of cases was common knowledge. Only not even a little bit true. Multiply that by dozens of accusations that simply aren't true. People to do research and then show their work.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 21, 2021 02:24AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
I am fine with the vast majority of Harris' background, except for letting a whole bunch of mortgage barons off the hook (cough*Mnuchin*cough). She is missing a dozen or more private million dollar speeches to Wall Street insiders to get to the right of Clinton.

And the problem with that? She can't earn a buck even when she's a private citizen? You judge a politician by their legislative actions. If you have a problem with any of that, put it out there. Did she somehow reward "Wall Street Insiders?" What legislation was that?
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 21, 2021 08:00AM
"Kamala Harris is right of Eisenhower and Biden" is the funniest thing I've read here in a while. Ask any of your conservative friends about that.

Girlfriend is liberal.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 21, 2021 08:12AM
Quote
vision63
The public's perception critical of Harris is based on not knowing any aspect of her existence. Just going with the flow.

That speaks to my initial point. If the "public's perception" isn't changed over the next two years*, "I don't think Harris could win the nomination."


*Isn't that when hats will begin getting tossed into the ring (if not sooner)?
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 21, 2021 08:17AM
VP Harris needs to get out in the public arena a whole lot more. But, then she might upstage Sleepy Joe.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: September 21, 2021 10:44AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
I am fine with the vast majority of Harris' background, except for letting a whole bunch of mortgage barons off the hook (cough*Mnuchin*cough). She is missing a dozen or more private million dollar speeches to Wall Street insiders to get to the right of Clinton.

And the problem with that? She can't earn a buck even when she's a private citizen? You judge a politician by their legislative actions. If you have a problem with any of that, put it out there. Did she somehow reward "Wall Street Insiders?" What legislation was that?

What I said seemed fairly clear, it was the lack of legislation. Nothing to punish Wall Street. There was a global depression caused by shenanigans and nothing to prevent another one. We still need a new version of Glass-Steagall.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 21, 2021 11:24AM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Rolando
I'm not sure Joe will not choose to retire, letting Harris for President as incumbent!?

Unless unanticipated events occur, I don't think Harris could win the nomination.

I agree. Don’t think she would get the nod but I feel that was the plan. Biden no 2nd term, Harris first woman prez. Just isn’t going to happen IMO.
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: September 21, 2021 11:42AM
I thought the popular conspiracy was that Kamala pays the Clintons to "remove" Biden after two years, then she can serve 10 years as POTUS?
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Re: Political dilemma
Posted by: deckeda
Date: September 21, 2021 12:53PM
It's great how this thread started as Republicans being challenged and now Democrats are doomed because of the V.P.

I think she can hold her own, if it comes to that. She'll either run in '24 or '28 and by then people will have other things to worry about than whatever she did or did not do in CA.

I do wish V.P.'s in general had more ways to be public without every damn thing being interpreted as upstaging the headliner or a perfunctory role.
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