‘ Tennessee, which is following the guidance of the National Institutes of Health, appears to be the first state to recommend limiting monoclonal antibody treatment to Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated or vaccinated but immunocompromised.

“If we had enough to give this to every single person at risk of hospitalization, that would be ideal,” Dr. Karen Bloch of Vanderbilt University Medical Center told The Tennessean. “But with this limited resource, identifying those most at risk makes sense. Taking out the politics, the unvaccinated fit into that category.” ‘


[www.nbcnews.com]

Only if they put on a dunce cap and publicly apologize for not getting vaccinated first.

---

Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero

Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a battle you know nothing about. —Wendy Mass

Seems like its sending the wrong message....on purpose.

---

It should be very rare for a vaccinated person to even need this, right? Especially now that seniors can get the 3rd shot soon.

Also offering fast cars to DUI arrestee's?

---

San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater

“But in recent months, 70 percent of the country’s supply has gone to seven Southern states: Alabama, Florida, Texas, Mississippi, Tennessee, Georgia and Louisiana.

All but Louisiana are led by Republicans who have opposed mandating Covid-19 vaccinations. And all but Florida have below average Covid-19 vaccination rates.

“The recent increase in COVID-19 cases has caused a substantial rise in the utilization of monoclonal antibody drugs, particularly in areas of the country with low vaccination rates,” Dr. Daniel Skovronsky, Eli Lilly and Company’s chief scientific and medical officer, said in a recent statement.

Tennessee’s vaccination rate is 44.1 percent, which is one of the worst in the country, according to the latest Mayo Clinic statistics.

Last week the Biden administration ordered more doses from the two main suppliers, Regeneron and Eli Lilly and Company, and informed state officials it would start capping the shipments of the drug to make sure there’s enough for the rest of the country.

“Our supply is not unlimited,” White House spokeswoman Jen Psaki said. “And we believe it should be equitable across states across the country.”

That move drew immediate criticism from the Republican governors of Florida, Mississippi and Texas (Ron DeSantis, Tate Reeves and Greg Abbott).

DeSantis, in particular, has touted expensive monoclonal antibody treatments (about $2,100 a dose) but has refused to mandate the far-cheaper vaccines (between $10 and $20 a dose) or proven safety measures like wearing masks.

>>>

I like the part in red text except that it indiscriminately will affect those who have been fully vaccinated and are also immunocompromised like organ transplant recipients. Hopefully medical professionals will give priority for antibody treatment to those who have been vaccinated.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2021 09:08PM by Speedy.

Apparently it works well. This STILL EXPERIMENTAL treatment (Emergency FDA approval) was given to 45 when he got it.

"I refuse to get the vaccination. I don't trust the government !"

(cough... wheeze...)

"DO ANYTHING !"

How bout we follow the science and get it to people who are medically eligible instead of making it another "bash the Southerners" festival?

As I said above, most vaccinated people are not generally eligible for this. You have safeguarded yourself in a better way already.


"As for vaccinated folks, there’s no evidence that the treatment doesn’t work or is harmful to them, Fales says. But vaccinated people have a lower risk of getting COVID-19 when exposed, and of developing severe COVID-19 if they do become infected, so they don’t generally qualify for monoclonal antibodies for prevention. 

In certain cases, a vaccinated person may be eligible to get monoclonal antibodies, Fales says: If they are immunocompromised due to age or another condition and might not build a robust immune response to the vaccine that would protect them in case of exposure, or if they become infected with COVID-19 and their symptoms become significant."

Relax.

They will all soon be vaccinated via cool ranch.

[dailyboulder.com]

Quote
Lemon Drop
How bout we follow the science and get it to people who are medically eligible instead of making it another "bash the Southerners" festival?

As I said above, most vaccinated people are not generally eligible for this. You have safeguarded yourself in a better way already.

> instead of making it another "bash the Southerners" festival?

Because its directly saying "not getting vaxxed gives you access to medicine"

Should doctors way all risk factors including vaccination status when determining who would benefit the most from a scarce treatment? Absolutely! Should health officials say "we're only giving x medicine to those who have put themselves at unnecessary risk?" No @#$%& way!

And they're doing it to score political points, pure and simple.

---

Quote
mattkime

Quote
Lemon Drop
How bout we follow the science and get it to people who are medically eligible instead of making it another "bash the Southerners" festival?

As I said above, most vaccinated people are not generally eligible for this. You have safeguarded yourself in a better way already.

> instead of making it another "bash the Southerners" festival?

Because its directly saying "not getting vaxxed gives you access to medicine"

Should doctors way all risk factors including vaccination status when determining who would benefit the most from a scarce treatment? Absolutely! Should health officials say "we're only giving x medicine to those who have put themselves at unnecessary risk?" No @#$%& way!

And they're doing it to score political points, pure and simple.

All they are doing is saying that due to a limited supply of this drug, they are strictly following the drug manufacturer's and NIH guidelines, instead of giving it out more liberally than that. This is a POSITIVE message for vaxxed people, you are well protected and in the majority of cases do not need this drug. Theu make exceptions for vaxxed folks in some cases.

What other states take this approach now matt, did you check?

There is nothing political happening here except for the absurd reactions from people triggered by seeing the names of Southern states.

The thing about monoclonal antibody treatment is that it is by far and away most effective if given within the first four to five days of covid symptoms - IOW, it needs to be given before we most often have any decent idea if the person sick with Covid will get so sick later that they will need hospitalization. Since non-immune compromised vaccinated people very, very seldom need to be hospitalized and unvaccinated individuals are much more likely to need hospitalization and there is limited availability of the treatment, to optimize positive outcomes overall it makes sense to limit the treatment to unvaccinated individuals. That's hardly a consolation for the very rare non-immune compromised vaccinated individual that ends up hospitalized or dead. It totally sucks - they did what they should do by getting vaccinated and yet some yahoo who didn't have the sense to do so gets a treatment that would have saved that vaccinated person who ends up hospitalized/dead. But general pragmatic considerations of limited resources lead to that suck-a-tude.

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e pluribus unum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2021 01:20PM by Ted King.

Quote
Lemon Drop
How bout we follow the science and get it to people who are medically eligible instead of making it another "bash the Southerners" festival?

Maybe because, on the whole, people and politicians primarily from Southern states are on the verge of doing today what they failed to do in 1860?

Historian and documentary filmmaker Ken Burns said that the present day is one of the worst times in American history.
Burns made the remark while on the “SmartLess” podcast, hosted by Will Arnett, Jason Bateman, and Sean Hayes, comparing current events with the Civil War, the Depression, and World War II.


From whence shall we expect the approach of danger? Shall some trans-Atlantic military giant step the earth and crush us at a blow? Never. All the armies of Europe, Asia, and Africa could not by force take a drink from the Ohio River or make a track on the Blue Ridge in the trial of a thousand years. No, if destruction be our lot we must ourselves be its author and finisher. As a nation of free men, we will live forever or die by suicide. ~ Abraham Lincoln

“making it another "bash the Southerners" festival”. No need, they do it to themselves without any help from us non-southerners.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Quote
Ted King
The thing about monoclonal antibody treatment is that it is by far and away most effective if given within the first four to five days of covid symptoms - IOW, it needs to be given before we most often have any decent idea if the person sick with Covid will get so sick later that they will need hospitalization. Since non-immune compromised vaccinated people very, very seldom need to be hospitalized and unvaccinated individuals are much more likely to need hospitalization and there is limited availability of the treatment, to optimize positive outcomes overall it makes sense to limit the treatment to unvaccinated individuals. That's hardly a consolation for the very rare non-immune compromised vaccinated individual that ends up hospitalized or dead. It totally sucks - they did what they should do by getting vaccinated and yet some yahoo who didn't have the sense to do so gets a treatment that would have saved that vaccinated person who ends up hospitalized/dead. But general pragmatic considerations of limited resources lead to that suck-a-tude.

Thanks for that Ted. The vaccinated people who benefit most from this drug are those who need non-covid hospital care. This drug keeps people out of the hospital or shortens their stay. That means more resources to take care of other patients .

Quote
Lemon Drop

Quote
Ted King
The thing about monoclonal antibody treatment is that it is by far and away most effective if given within the first four to five days of covid symptoms - IOW, it needs to be given before we most often have any decent idea if the person sick with Covid will get so sick later that they will need hospitalization. Since non-immune compromised vaccinated people very, very seldom need to be hospitalized and unvaccinated individuals are much more likely to need hospitalization and there is limited availability of the treatment, to optimize positive outcomes overall it makes sense to limit the treatment to unvaccinated individuals. That's hardly a consolation for the very rare non-immune compromised vaccinated individual that ends up hospitalized or dead. It totally sucks - they did what they should do by getting vaccinated and yet some yahoo who didn't have the sense to do so gets a treatment that would have saved that vaccinated person who ends up hospitalized/dead. But general pragmatic considerations of limited resources lead to that suck-a-tude.

Thanks for that Ted. The vaccinated people who benefit most from this drug are those who need non-covid hospital care. This drug keeps people out of the hospital or shortens their stay. That means more resources to take care of other patients .

I think I exaggerated above in the sense that the risk of hospitalization if you are vaccinated and contract Covid is probably higher than what I said. But even if something like 10% of people admitted to hospitals with Covid are vaccinated (excluding immune compromised individuals), that would mean that an unvaccinated individual with Covid would have a significantly greater chance than a vaccinated person of ending up in the hospital if they didn't get the monoclonal treatment. Practicalities say give it only to the unvaccinated but I can't shake the feeling that there is some unfairness in the unvaccinated person getting a benefit because they didn't do what the should have done over someone who did what all of us should do.

---

e pluribus unum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2021 05:16PM by Ted King.

Quote
Ted King

Quote
Lemon Drop

Quote
Ted King
The thing about monoclonal antibody treatment is that it is by far and away most effective if given within the first four to five days of covid symptoms - IOW, it needs to be given before we most often have any decent idea if the person sick with Covid will get so sick later that they will need hospitalization. Since non-immune compromised vaccinated people very, very seldom need to be hospitalized and unvaccinated individuals are much more likely to need hospitalization and there is limited availability of the treatment, to optimize positive outcomes overall it makes sense to limit the treatment to unvaccinated individuals. That's hardly a consolation for the very rare non-immune compromised vaccinated individual that ends up hospitalized or dead. It totally sucks - they did what they should do by getting vaccinated and yet some yahoo who didn't have the sense to do so gets a treatment that would have saved that vaccinated person who ends up hospitalized/dead. But general pragmatic considerations of limited resources lead to that suck-a-tude.

Thanks for that Ted. The vaccinated people who benefit most from this drug are those who need non-covid hospital care. This drug keeps people out of the hospital or shortens their stay. That means more resources to take care of other patients .

I think I exaggerated above in the sense that the risk of hospitalization if you are vaccinated and contract Covid is probably higher than what I said. But even if something like 10% of people admitted to hospitals with Covid are vaccinated (excluding immune compromised individuals), that would mean that an unvaccinated individual with Covid would have a significantly greater chance than a vaccinated person of ending up in the hospital if they didn't get the monoclonal treatment. Practicalities say give it only to the unvaccinated but I can't shake the feeling that there is some unfairness in the unvaccinated person getting a benefit because they didn't do what the should have done over someone who did what all of us should do.

In Tennessee only .6% of hospitalized people have been fully vaccinated. Nationwide it ranges from .1% (Georgia) to 4.7% (Arkansas) [www.nytimes.com]

Looking at their numbers, I think the decision makes sense in a limited resource environment.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2021 05:34PM by Lemon Drop.

Seems like its sending the wrong message....on purpose.


I understand what Dr. Bloch is saying, and it makes sense.

Dr. Karen Bloch of Vanderbilt University Medical Center told The Tennessean. “But with this limited resource, identifying those most at risk makes sense. Taking out the politics, the unvaccinated fit into that category.”

I have no disagreement whatsoever.

But— on it's face, first blush, It feels like 'don't worry about getting a risky vaccination, we've got monoclonal treatment which works better at curing than the vaxx does and preventing.'

The doctor is taking the politics out of it.

But I wish she'd have included something to the effect of 'we wouldn't have to do this if so many stupid people would pull their heads out of their asses and get vaccinated in the first place'.

Only maybe nicer.

---

I am that Masked Man.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Just make sure that unless they have a valid medical reason, every unvaccinated dimwit gets charged the full price of the antibody treatment. The choice should be free vaccine vs full-price antibodies.

---

"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

Southerners:

[www.nytimes.com]

Covid Hospitalizations Hit Crisis Levels in Southern I.C.U.s
By Charlie SmartSept. 14, 2021

Hospitals in the southern United States are running dangerously low on space in intensive care units, as the Delta variant has led to spikes in coronavirus cases not seen since last year’s deadly winter wave.

One in four hospitals now reports more than 95 percent of I.C.U. beds occupied — up from one in five last month. Experts say it can become difficult to maintain standards of care for the sickest patients in hospitals where all or nearly all I.C.U. beds are occupied.

In June, when Covid-19 cases were at their lowest level, less than one in 10 hospitals had dangerously high occupancy rates.

In Alabama, all I.C.U. beds are currently occupied. In recent days, dozens of patients in the state have needed beds that were not available, according to data published by the Department of Health and Human Services.

“It means they’re in the waiting room, some are in the back of ambulances, things of that nature,” said Jeannie Gaines, a spokesperson for the Alabama Hospital Association.

First map ending July 1, second map week ending September 9.








Percent of ICU beds occupied. July 1/September 9

Alabama (the far right is over 100%)



Texas



Florida (the far right is over 100%)

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/22/2021 07:51PM by Speedy.

Quote
Lemon Drop

In Tennessee only .6% of hospitalized people have been fully vaccinated. Nationwide it ranges from .1% (Georgia) to 4.7% (Arkansas) [www.nytimes.com]

Looking at their numbers, I think the decision makes sense in a limited resource environment.

Well, to be fair, the other side of the coin is that by denying monoclonal therapy to vaccinated inpatients, you are saving only ~1% of the doses.

Or does this apply only to outpatients?

PS - I don’t think this is so much bash the Southerners as it is bash the Republican governments there that are knowingly denying basic public health measures and science in the name of Freedom! (while jockeying for higher office, playing to a deluded, pwn-the-libs base).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/23/2021 09:19AM by pdq.

Quote
pdq

Quote
Lemon Drop

In Tennessee only .6% of hospitalized people have been fully vaccinated. Nationwide it ranges from .1% (Georgia) to 4.7% (Arkansas) [www.nytimes.com]

Looking at their numbers, I think the decision makes sense in a limited resource environment.

Well, to be fair, the other side of the coin is that by denying monoclonal therapy to vaccinated inpatients, you are saving only ~1% of the doses.

Or does this apply only to outpatients?

PS - I don’t think this is so much bash the Southerners as it is bash the Republican governments there that are knowingly denying basic public health measures and science in the name of Freedom! (while jockeying for higher office, playing to a deluded, pwn-the-libs base).

To repeat...this is NOT a political decision. This is a healthcare rationing decision by medical professionals based on guidance of agencies and drug makers.

Idaho and Alaska hospitals are now on Crisis Standards of Care because their hospitals are overwhelmed. Montana is not far behind. Waiting for the thread about the "deluded" people who live in these places. Doubt we'll see that, will we?

Further to the above...we are in a terrible, confusing age where people have fatally linked healthcare and politics.

Threads like this show how even standard guidance statements by a doctor from one of the nation's top universities gets twisted into politics.

I think both sides need to take a breath and really try harder to separate the two.

Quote
Lemon Drop
Waiting for the thread about the "deluded" people who live in these places. Doubt we'll see that, will we?

Well, I have roughed up Governor Noem here a time or two for encouraging folks to come to her Covid-superspreader-palooza in Sturgis.

But you bet - maybe twenty to thirty percent of the folks in this country are delusional, anti-science, a danger to themselves and others…but I digress - and live all over the place, unfortunately many in the slowly-dying rural areas of this country.

So Idaho is overwhelmed with Covid. And Paul LePage, racist, xenophobic and nut-job extraordinaire is running for governor again in Maine…and Susan Collins, in a moment when she wasn’t deeply concerned, has endorsed him.

So yes, crazy lives everywhere. It just happens to currently have a near death-grip on the South.

Does this mean that someone who is immunocompromised but vaccinated isn't offered this treatment but someone who's otherwise young, healthy and unvaccinated is?

I guess my question is "Is there a group of vaccinated individuals who are at greater risk of dying from covid compared to a group of lowest risk unvaccinated individuals?"

---

I recommend reading this entire article
[www.wbir.com]

Explains who gets this treatment and why, very clearly.

The rationing to unvaxxed only is suggested ONLY if a provider runs low, which has NOT happened. This is NOT a policy you see on the state's public health website. It is a doctor saying what they would recommend in a what if, worst case scenario.