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WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: PeterB
Date: September 27, 2021 10:05PM
[www.reuters.com]

Ummm, you would think that healthcare workers would want what's in the best interests of their patients and of themselves too.

Yes, there might be a few here or there who can't get vaccinated for legitimate medical reasons, but a religious exemption ... I just don't see it. [fox2now.com]




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: September 27, 2021 10:21PM
You’d think.
If they won’t take measures not to kill their patients, they need to leave healthcare, as well as do some deep soul searching to find out how their priorities got so screwed up.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 27, 2021 10:22PM
Same as every population of Americans.

A significant portion -- often a majority -- are pure narcissists with no sense of humanity.



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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: abevilac
Date: September 27, 2021 10:45PM
It should be noted that the term health care worker covers everyone from the people who clean, phone bank operators, orderlies, office assistants in doctors’ offices, etc to ICU nurses, surgeons and all those who need advanced degrees to be qualified for their work. I’m sure there are instances of BSRNs or medical doctors who have been interviewed by the media but I don’t think they comprise any appreciable percentage of the unvaccinated. IMHO
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 27, 2021 11:05PM
FACT: NY includes Staten Island.



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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 27, 2021 11:09PM
A bell-shaped curve of competence exists in ALL professions.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Sarcany
Date: September 27, 2021 11:25PM
Quote
abevilac
I’m sure there are instances of BSRNs or medical doctors who have been interviewed by the media but I don’t think they comprise any appreciable percentage of the unvaccinated. IMHO

That's an interesting observation. It does seem to be almost entirely nurses and technicians, and not many educators or practicing physicians.

Still, they're shutting down whole wards, endangering thousands of lives and depriving remote communities of essential services with this assholery.



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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 28, 2021 07:04AM
A worry everywhere, not just New York. These early mandates are in states with very high vaccination rates. Imagine what's going to happen when Biden's mandate hits the South and Midwest.

"Hospitals and nursing homes around the U.S. are bracing for worsening staff shortages as state deadlines arrive for health care workers to get vaccinated against COVID-19.

With ultimatums taking effect this week in states like New York, California, Rhode Island and Connecticut, the fear is that some employees will quit or let themselves be fired or suspended rather than get the vaccine.

“How this is going to play out, we don’t know. We are concerned about how it will exacerbate an already quite serious staffing problem,” said California Hospital Association spokesperson Jan Emerson-Shea, adding that the organization “absolutely” supports the state’s vaccination requirement."

[www.postandcourier.com].


Seems to be working out for airlines. When the message is get the shot or lose your healthy paycheck, it works. But in low paying jobs where people can just go elsewhere, could be a disaster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2021 07:05AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 28, 2021 07:42AM
It's important to remember that the majority of healthcare workers are poorly compensated and poorly educated and poorly trained. Sure, on TV you see the hero doctors and nurses. But... you know.. those people are expensive ! So corporate healthcare got laws changed through bribery uh.. lobbying... so that lower paid people could deliver all the hands on healthcare, and expensive people would deliver only special care.

And that's why we're in this situation. In Ohio, when healthcare workers were allowed to get the COVID-19 vaccination, a weird situation showed up. In nursing homes and assisted living homes, over 80% of the residents got vaccinated. But only 35% of the staff got vaccinated.

The Gordon Gecko school of Medicine is running things...
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: September 28, 2021 08:45AM
Hi everyone,

I'm a NYer and I'm very happy about the mandate. Required vaccinations are nothing new and has been upheld for decades. Want to attend school? You need the proper vaccinations. I'd even go as far to say that workers already have to follow specific requirements in their daily activities. Think about it.

Hospitals, doctor's offices, services providers all have strict safety protocols and requirements. They aren't necessarily mandated but they must be followed. Not just by doctors and nurses. Employees of all types have contact with each other and many have direct or indirect contact with patients.

Enter an area like an operating room? Wear appropriate coverings (gowns, masks, gloves, etc), follow proper hand hygiene, you name it. Hands on with patients during routine care? Same thing. Requirements are in place and employees who do not follow the rules face discipline and/or being fired. It's considered insubordination.

If they're fired and it is due to insubordination, good luck getting unemployment benefits. In many places, insubordination is one of the reasons someone might be ineligible to receive them.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2021 08:48AM by Robert M.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 28, 2021 08:57AM
^^^
Not really the issue. Of course we have to have vaccinated healthcare workers.

Low paid workers particularly in healthcare don't give a rat's ass about being fired. Right now they can get paid same or more with better conditions elsewhere.

You have to hope enough people just feel drawn to this work.

The stick is not going to help that much. I'd try more carrot, as in better pay and conditions.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Acer
Date: September 28, 2021 09:12AM
Three things:

The churn in healthcare is incredible. Poaching is rampant. It finally forced my wife's employer to offer substantial incentives just to keep the people they had. Still they are chronically understaffed--they have been for decades, but COVID is really laying it bare.

Travel nursing is where the big bucks are right now. Got your vax? You can double or even triple your pay-- and sleep at home working at facilities in and around your home region. Of course, you can find yourself thrust into some very stressful situations.

Robert's logic is impeccable. But I will say that a good nurse is empathetic as well as scientific. The trade-off for having both of those qualities is that logic doesn't always carry the day.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: September 28, 2021 09:30AM
There are red hats everywhere.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: September 28, 2021 09:39AM
COVID has thrown the old common sense rules out the window.

People who never had trouble getting vaccines and following health protocols now believe that doing so for Covid is going to turn them into a Prius driver with a coexist bumper sticker.

And this behavior appears across all levels of income and education. I know a number of family doctors in my town who are anti-vax. And prescribing ivermectin to anyone who asks.

People who think mandates will make this all go away are doing some magical thinking.

I can't guess how it ends. Deaths are 4.7 times higher per capita in the heavily Trump counties, according to the Times. . People have accepted sickness and death. Once you're there, where do you go?
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 28, 2021 10:11AM
I know two of them.
They are:
1) Enclosed in an internet and practical religious bubble
2) Not very bright
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Buzz
Date: September 28, 2021 11:45AM
FAH-LOE DUH MUH-NEE!

Healthcare workers are in high demand, so lots of places are paying astronomical sums to poach workers from other venues.

Make a vax stink.

Leave where you're at.
Triple (or more) your salary.
Shut up and silently get vaxxed.

Capitalism and narcisism elegantly combined.

Then force your former employer to play the pay-to-poach game, too.
==
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: AllGold
Date: September 28, 2021 02:47PM
Buzz, why would they need all the drama? If they want to go somewhere else and make more money then why not just do it?



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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: September 28, 2021 03:08PM
Buzz,

You speak as if it is easy to just quit a job, go somewhere else and get hired again. It's tough enough for a single individual to do that. Factor in those with a family and/or other critical factors? Definitely not so easy. I'll say it's something people will do only after careful consideration and planning.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/28/2021 03:33PM by Robert M.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: kj
Date: September 28, 2021 03:52PM
Quote
Acer
Three things:

The churn in healthcare is incredible. Poaching is rampant. It finally forced my wife's employer to offer substantial incentives just to keep the people they had. Still they are chronically understaffed--they have been for decades, but COVID is really laying it bare.

Travel nursing is where the big bucks are right now. Got your vax? You can double or even triple your pay-- and sleep at home working at facilities in and around your home region. Of course, you can find yourself thrust into some very stressful situations.

Robert's logic is impeccable. But I will say that a good nurse is empathetic as well as scientific. The trade-off for having both of those qualities is that logic doesn't always carry the day.

thumbs up

Along with empathetic vs scientific you've got rule-follower vs get-er-done, easy going vs detail oriented. Caregivers that are too much like either "Odd couple" drive people nuts.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: sekker
Date: September 28, 2021 04:31PM
The seasonal flu shot has had to be mandatory in health care settings for many years.

Why? I'm clueless. It's not from lack of health care training or information.
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: September 28, 2021 05:43PM
My partner is now the Director of a pre-school/daycare in a Retirement Community. (co-located and operated by the retirement community)

Anyway, every employee gets a flu shot. Period. Even the school staff, because they share space. Flu shots are being done soon. Lots of freebies and drawings for the staff and residents. Or they hunt you down later, and you get no freebies, and miss out on the drawings.



********************************************
The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Grateful11
Date: September 28, 2021 08:58PM
He's a ordinated Lutheran pastor.

What does your faith exempt you from?
[currentpub.com]



Grateful11
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Buzz
Date: September 29, 2021 11:22AM
Quote
Robert M
Buzz,

You speak as if it is easy to just quit a job, go somewhere else and get hired again. It's tough enough for a single individual to do that. Factor in those with a family and/or other critical factors? Definitely not so easy. I'll say it's something people will do only after careful consideration and planning.

Robert

Lots of understaffed hospitals are paying outrageous sums to bring in add'l workers. It more than easy; they lure you away with the big bucks. IMHO, any decent healthcare worker isn't gonna have a real problem with the vax situation. OTOH, I can readily understand many red-blooded healthcare workers not seeing anything wrong with being more loyal to their own wallets, than to their current employers during the pandemic free-for-all.

A friend's daughter, a nurse from here in L.A. County, had been working up in Santa Clara County pre-pandemic, because they were even then paying almost 3X what the biggies were paying down here. She'd work a bunch of days on, then on her bunch of days off, she'd come home down here. Eventually she got homesick enough that she started looking for opportunities here. She found a situation she liked, at less than half the pay, just as the pandemic started to be a real thing. She was all set to try to cure her homesickness, but when she gave notice up north, her hospital offered to up her already ourageous salary even more, AND provide a sizable housing and travel stipend for her to keep going back and forth.

I know of many more financially motivated situations, and using the vax/anti-vax conundrum to grease the skids, just wreaks of capitalizing on what the pandemic has to offer. Easy, or not, and under the pandemic's free-for-all it is easy; in some circles it's the American (Amagakin?) way.
==
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Re: WTH is wrong with the healthcare workers in NY?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: September 29, 2021 11:55AM
Buzz,

An anecdote doesn't mean much of anything to me. As I read it, nothing you said takes into consideration anything I mentioned in my post. Got a family with kids? You're not going to move so quickly. Married? Is the spouse ready to leave his/her job and find a new one since if one spouse moves, the other is likely going to have to move and find a new employer as well? If it was as easy as you're implying, getting people to come to work wouldn't be an issue. Unfortunately, that's not the case.

Robert



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/30/2021 01:24PM by Robert M.
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