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Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Speedy
Date: October 26, 2021 08:19PM
It’s Wisconsin. The dead and wounded have already been tried and convicted.

[www.washingtonpost.com]

A Wisconsin judge ruled Monday that attorneys in the Kyle Rittenhouse murder trial could refer to the men the teen shot in Kenosha, Wis., last year as “rioters,” “looters” and “arsonists.” They could not, however, describe Joseph Rosenbaum and Anthony Huber, who were killed, and Gaige Grosskreutz, who was wounded, as “victims” because the term was “loaded,” the judge said.

The ruling comes ahead of what’s expected to be a contentious trial. Rittenhouse, then 17, shot the men in downtown Kenosha on Aug. 25, 2020, with an AR-15-style rifle after crossing state lines during the turmoil sparked by the shooting of Jacob Blake, a Black man, by Rusten Sheskey, a White police officer. Rittenhouse was with fellow armed men who had tasked themselves with patrolling Kenosha’s streets amid the chaos.

Circuit Judge Bruce Schroeder laid out final ground rules before the trial next week. Rittenhouse faces homicide charges in the deaths of Rosenbaum, 36, and Huber, 26, and an attempted homicide charge for shooting Grosskreutz, 27. He also is charged with being a minor in possession of a firearm. Rittenhouse has pleaded not guilty to all charges, and his attorneys are expected to argue that he acted in self-defense.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: mattkime
Date: October 26, 2021 08:46PM
>It’s Wisconsin.

Its Paul Ryan's old district. Not representative of the state, probably the most conservative bit.



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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: October 26, 2021 08:54PM
I don't get it. Why call them anything ? Human Beings.

I despise right wing politics.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Rolando
Date: October 26, 2021 10:54PM
Sounds like the judge has already decided.
I wonder if the Prosecutor is ok with this, or will he note this is a request for "judicial disqualification" or the like.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: AllGold
Date: October 27, 2021 01:05AM
Quote
Rolando
Sounds like the judge has already decided.
I wonder if the Prosecutor is ok with this, or will he note this is a request for "judicial disqualification" or the like.

Yep, should be an instant mistrial and the "judge" should get the boot.



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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 27, 2021 06:57AM
Victim is easy: they’re dead
Rioter, looter, and ESPECIALLY arsonist … um wouldn’t those only come after a conviction??

The judge made some amateurish comment like, if the Defense thinks it’s smart to bully or use pejoratives and the jury is dumb enough to go along with it too bad. That was my take. His actual comment wasn’t much better, like if the jury decides I’m wrong they’ll let me know thru their decision.

He’s bad news either way.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: RgrF
Date: October 27, 2021 07:03AM
There are those Senators who would have us believe politicizing the judiciary is not a bad thing.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: deckeda
Date: October 27, 2021 07:42AM
Quote
RgrF
There are those Senators who would have us believe politicizing the judiciary is not a bad thing.

It’s like running for Sheriff. You put a D or an R behind your name. But why should a Sheriff have political affiliation, just because it’s an elected position? Seems no one can fathom an alternative.

And unsurprisingly, today I heard on local radio some state rep wants to … wait for it … position school board members with which political party they’re with. You know, for “accountability.” Can you guess he’s a Republican? Sure you can, because giving parents the ability to not re-elect a board member they don’t like just isn’t good enough: You have to front-load the board by partisanship outta the gate these days.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2021 07:43AM by deckeda.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 27, 2021 08:22AM
This would not be grounds for recusal, but I guarantee the prosecution is going through the judge's previous rulings and background looking for something to disqualify him. If nothing is found then they move forward as best they can. There is no prosecutorial appeal if Rittenhouse is found not guilty.

Still, this is a case that has hung jury written all over it.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: bazookaman
Date: October 27, 2021 09:05AM
B/c the terms “rioters,” “looters” and “arsonists” are NOT loaded????



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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Acer
Date: October 27, 2021 10:25AM
They aren't victims until a crime has been established, which is what the trial is supposed to do.

But it should cut both ways. Until it has been established in court that the people who stood in the way of Rittenhouse's bullets were actually rioting or looting or, um, arsoning, then they should be referred to as they referred to themselves, or as their peers referred to them, protestors.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2021 10:26AM by Acer.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: October 27, 2021 10:48AM
Quote
Ombligo
This would not be grounds for recusal, but I guarantee the prosecution is going through the judge's previous rulings and background looking for something to disqualify him. If nothing is found then they move forward as best they can. There is no prosecutorial appeal if Rittenhouse is found not guilty.

Still, this is a case that has hung jury written all over it.

Bet he walks on all the serious charges (minor in possession isn't)
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: October 27, 2021 11:22AM
Quote
Acer
They aren't victims until a crime has been established, which is what the trial is supposed to do.

I think it's safe to call someone whose life was involuntarily taken from them for no good reason a victim.

I might feel differently if the deceased were shot while committing a violent crime of some sort... but they weren't, as far as we are able to tell.



It is what it is.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 27, 2021 11:58AM
It's Chinatown, Jake (at least it was before the big fire and explosions)
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: mattkime
Date: October 27, 2021 12:48PM
Thinking about where the trial is being held, we should consider it a victory if the verdict comes back anything better than a pull apology from the state.



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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 27, 2021 12:59PM
another Hamburger And A Hug verdict is on the way?
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Mr Downtown
Date: October 27, 2021 02:53PM
This judge has had a longstanding rule of not allowing prosecutors to refer to people as "victims" at trial. "Victim" assumes facts not yet in evidence. It can have a specific legal meaning: signifying that a decedent's death was the result of a crime. But determining whether there actually was a crime, which one, and the guilt of the accused are the very purposes of the trial.

The judge has only said he'd allow calling the decedents "looters" or "rioters" IF evidence of that was introduced—not as a general rule from the start. And it would only be in closing arguments, at which time prosecutors are also free to call Rittenhouse a "murderer" or a "rogue assassin" if they want.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: AllGold
Date: October 27, 2021 03:38PM
Fine. Call them recipients of Kyle Rittenhouse's bullets.



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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 27, 2021 05:53PM
"unfortunate recipients of lead poisoning"



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: October 28, 2021 06:36AM
"Perforated-Americans"
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: October 28, 2021 07:18AM
Rittenhouse's supporters were upset that they couldn't just be called "uppity n%@@^r's"



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: AllGold
Date: October 28, 2021 04:45PM
I could be wrong but I believe two thirds of the people Rittenhouse shot were white.



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Re: Men shot by Kyle Rittenhouse can be called ‘rioters’ and ‘looters’ but not ‘victims,’ judge rules
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: October 28, 2021 04:52PM
how about "tourists'?
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