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How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 28, 2021 11:13PM
Kindergarten was day one. What did we miss?
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 28, 2021 11:28PM
Kindergarten in my day was finger paint and graham crackers. Now you are behind if you show up not knowing your letters or the quadratic equation.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 28, 2021 11:33PM
Quote
Acer
Kindergarten in my day was finger paint and graham crackers. Now you are behind if you show up not knowing your letters or the quadratic equation.

There were naps, punch and crafts. It was awesome. Hop on Pop. Go Dog. Go.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Wags
Date: November 28, 2021 11:35PM
For the baby boomers it was probably due to mothers not working. Most families could get along fine with one wage earner.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: C(-)ris
Date: November 29, 2021 12:00AM
Quote
vision63
Kindergarten was day one. What did we miss?

.



C(-)ris
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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 12:01AM by C(-)ris.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Racer X
Date: November 29, 2021 12:31AM
socialization is the big one. Learning not to bite, hit, peak in others' undies. Lots more too. My partner is asleep, or I would try and get s 3 sentence answer from her.



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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: November 29, 2021 01:26AM
I went to pre-K. My impression is that after 'class' were attempts to get me to play nice with new acquaintances for extended periods so mom could start to go back to work. I think it was parents trying out round robin DIY daycare.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: November 29, 2021 02:32AM
I went to preschool.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 29, 2021 02:42AM
Quote
cbelt3
I went to preschool.

Really? I don't remember it being an option during my time.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: November 29, 2021 07:01AM
Vision,

You missed a bunch. Preschool isn't just fun and games. I'll go as far to say preschool actually starts in daycare and the curriculum progresses just like an elementary school. In the earliest years for Little M, daycare was play, experiences and socialization. As Little M got older, daycare switched gears to preschool and life skills, academics and "school" skills.

Robert
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: November 29, 2021 07:31AM
I went to pre-K until I got kicked out. I wasn’t so good at listening to others. I suppose not much has changed since then, but they did try to correct me. After 50 years it’s such a relief to finally come clean.

I flicked cookie crumbs across the table and continued to do so when told to stop. I missed recess and didn’t appreciate that.

So maybe I wasn’t “kicked out,” but we all know it’s more fun to play the victim and decry persecution for one’s cookie crumb beliefs. So yeah, my tainted record began early.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: samintx
Date: November 29, 2021 07:49AM
1st grade was it in my day…1930’s. Maybe kindergarten for really rich kids.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: November 29, 2021 08:02AM
Today's preschool is closer to what Kindergarten was when we were kids, possibly even 1st grade. By the time a student arrives in Kindergarten, they are expected to know the alphabet and do some basic reading, simple addition, and subtraction.

The children who have not gone to preschool are generally behind from start. Unfortunately, there are far too many in that position due to the cost involved.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: November 29, 2021 08:08AM
vision - when “pre-school” age did you have a parent at home, parents at home in your neighborhood, and neighbor kids to play with?

pre-school is daycare and the intro to indoctrination to the social system. for the strata of the population who believes plopping a kid in front of a tv or tablet for hours at a time is sufficient it’s a preferable option.

yeah, i homeschooled my son for a lot of reasons.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: November 29, 2021 08:20AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
cbelt3
I went to preschool.

Really? I don't remember it being an option during my time.
Private preschool / daycare setup. In the South, schooling was private if you want more than the absolute minimum. That has changed, fortunately. Somewhat.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 29, 2021 08:50AM
There's a pretty big overlap between kindergarten and pre-k. Its mostly about socialization and identifying any problems early. IMO almost any pre-k is ALSO child care, just as Kindergarden through high school is also childcare.

My son started kindergarten this year. It was good to start the year with some recognition of letters and numbers but it wasn't necessary. Kids start out at all different levels and they're going to finish at a variety of levels. Thats just how it is at that age.



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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Todd's keyboard
Date: November 29, 2021 09:49AM
Previous generations did not need college (nor any school, for that matter).

Society seems to have a trend towards lengthening the number of years at both ends of childhood. For many professions today, an undergraduate degree is not enough to begin a career.

Todd's school key board
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: btfc
Date: November 29, 2021 10:03AM
Hey! Teacher!
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: November 29, 2021 10:07AM
Quote
Todd's keyboard
Previous generations did not need college (nor any school, for that matter).

Society seems to have a trend towards lengthening the number of years at both ends of childhood. For many professions today, an undergraduate degree is not enough to begin a career.

Todd's school key board

This! And don't even start me on the whole "hold back" thing because little Johnny is not "ready" for Kindergarten. Argh. My son was early aged compared to his peers (turned 5 after K began) and it's the best decision I ever made.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: wave rider
Date: November 29, 2021 10:25AM
Quote
samintx
1st grade was it in my day…1930’s. Maybe kindergarten for really rich kids.

I too went straight to first grade in the 1950s. No pre or kindergarten for me. Got into first grade a little early, I was 17 when I graduated high school.



=wr=
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: November 29, 2021 10:26AM

the case for more and better pre-K
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Janit
Date: November 29, 2021 10:45AM
Pre-K was called "nursery school" in my day -- mornings, I think, and I don't remember how many days a week or if I went one or two years. Then kindergarten and on until morning.

My class was the first to have kindergarten in my town. Without that, I guess it would have been an additional year of nursery school.

Nursery school was definitely a plus. It gave my three siblings and my Mom some room to breathe, and it also gave her time to paint.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 29, 2021 10:54AM
Quote
Janit
Pre-K was called "nursery school" in my day -- mornings, I think, and I don't remember how many days a week or if I went one or two years. Then kindergarten and on until morning.

My class was the first to have kindergarten in my town. Without that, I guess it would have been an additional year of nursery school.

Nursery school was definitely a plus. It gave my three siblings and my Mom some room to breathe, and it also gave her time to paint.

YES! I didn't go to Nursery School but I've heard of that. I've been assuming that's what all kids have been getting.

Kids slightly younger than me went to Nursery School. I think everywhere I've lived has had what they're calling Pre-K. With the call for Universal Pre-K, I'm wondering who doesn't have access to it (not that I care enough to actually check it out). I just vote for the Democrats.

Even in my home town school system LAUSD, they make a big deal about achieving Universal Pre-K, when based on what I've seen it's a current option for kids in the district.

When I go to people's houses they have pictures of their kids graduating from Pre-K, with full cap and gowns like they split the atom or something, about to head off to the University.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: A-Polly
Date: November 29, 2021 10:57AM
1950s Florida here, went to kindergarten but it was a private school, as there was no public option. Most children began with first grade, and I don't know if anyone ever used the term "pre-" school (but I was a kid, so who knows). I remember a table covered with a mountain of gray clay, which I adored. But sitting in a chair with a bible to contemplate my sins of misbehavior nono smiley while the other kids got to play, did not please my little self at all! Old Fogette
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 29, 2021 11:01AM
Quote
A-Polly
1950s Florida here, went to kindergarten but it was a private school, as there was no public option. Most children began with first grade, and I don't know if anyone ever used the term "pre-" school (but I was a kid, so who knows). I remember a table covered with a mountain of gray clay, which I adored. But sitting in a chair with a bible to contemplate my sins of misbehavior nono smiley while the other kids got to play, did not please my little self at all! Old Fogette

You should commit a few crimes for real life absolution and balance.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: rgG
Date: November 29, 2021 11:12AM
I went to kindergarten when I was five.
That must have been in 1962.
I really only remember getting to take out our little red and blue segmented fold up mats and take a nap about half way through the day, however long that was. I thought nap time was da bomb. grinning smiley





Roswell, GA (Atlanta suburb)
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: graylocks
Date: November 29, 2021 11:25AM
Quote
rgG
I thought nap time was da bomb. grinning smiley

on the other end of the cycle, nap time is still da bomb!



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 29, 2021 11:27AM
Quote
rgG
I went to kindergarten when I was five.
That must have been in 1962.
I really only remember getting to take out our little red and blue segmented fold up mats and take a nap about half way through the day, however long that was. I thought nap time was da bomb. grinning smiley

What was amazing was every single one of us conked right out. The teacher had to be pleased. She even played soothing records on the record player sometimes. Miss Smith. Awesome lady.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 11:27AM by vision63.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: November 29, 2021 11:39AM
Quote
graylocks
Quote
rgG
I thought nap time was da bomb. grinning smiley

on the other end of the cycle, nap time is still da bomb!

Accurate
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: November 29, 2021 11:47AM
With the call for Universal Pre-K, I'm wondering who doesn't have access to it (not that I care enough to actually check it out). I just vote for the Democrats.

Unless I’m mistaken, anything pre-K has never been part of any state’s public education. It’s private school/daycare for children younger than Kindergarten.

I mostly consider it daycare (helping out working parents) and good daycare costs dollars. There was a church near us that was a great compromise, offering basically half-day daycare that cost less than the for-profit daycare facilities and with (in our opinion) better care. As RacerX knows, it can be the Wild West with regard to the quality of service and attention the kids get. “Brand name” centers. Grandmas working out of their home. And so on.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 29, 2021 12:07PM
Quote
deckeda
With the call for Universal Pre-K, I'm wondering who doesn't have access to it (not that I care enough to actually check it out). I just vote for the Democrats.

Unless I’m mistaken, anything pre-K has never been part of any state’s public education. It’s private school/daycare for children younger than Kindergarten.

I mostly consider it daycare (helping out working parents) and good daycare costs dollars. There was a church near us that was a great compromise, offering basically half-day daycare that cost less than the for-profit daycare facilities and with (in our opinion) better care. As RacerX knows, it can be the Wild West with regard to the quality of service and attention the kids get. “Brand name” centers. Grandmas working out of their home. And so on.

That's interesting. In my mind, this is something we already have. It's confusing that they keep wanting more of it. That shows you right there how ineffective the messaging is. What does Pre-K stand for? Not Pre-School?

The message should be (and headlines should put it this way if it's valuable to the public): Democrats want children to have Pre-K (whatever that means), and Republicans do not.

Every election there's something school related on the ballot. I think the the general public feels like they're always getting what they want and the attitude is "What do they want now!"



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 12:09PM by vision63.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: November 29, 2021 12:21PM
Quote
vision63
What does Pre-K stand for? Not Pre-School?

Just an even earlier form of pre-school. Back in the day kindergarten was pre-school, when I went 60+ years ago it was just half a day of kindergarten. Not all school systems ran kindergarten either, there were many where your first "formal" school experience was going to one as a first grader.

Anything earlier than K was an informal mix of daycare, nursery schools, or just stay at home with a parent. That would usually be a mother, but there were plenty of off shift fathers who also did this.

Basically the current movement for universal Pre-K is to have a more formal method of providing and tracking having this available to more parents and their children. It may in effect be an expansion of daycare options for those with young children not already in school.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: November 29, 2021 12:51PM
Deckeda,

Times have changed. Universal pre-K is becoming commonplace. As a kid, I remember kindergarten in our elementary schools. Now, basic public education in my area starts with pre-K and finishes with high school. Parents think of it as another grade now because it isn't just fun and games. Real learning takes place and it is an important step to ensure children are ready for kindergarten.

Although many public school districts offer universal pre-K, many don't have it and parents need to pay for it on their own. Many pre-K programs are a part of nursery schools and more comprehensive daycare centers. Little M attended a daycare center for the littlest ones and pre-K programs for children old enough for them. If she was of age to start pre-K now, she'd attend the universal pre-K program in our local school district.

Robert
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 29, 2021 12:54PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
vision63
What does Pre-K stand for? Not Pre-School?

Just an even earlier form of pre-school. Back in the day kindergarten was pre-school, when I went 60+ years ago it was just half a day of kindergarten. Not all school systems ran kindergarten either, there were many where your first "formal" school experience was going to one as a first grader.

Anything earlier than K was an informal mix of daycare, nursery schools, or just stay at home with a parent. That would usually be a mother, but there were plenty of off shift fathers who also did this.

Basically the current movement for universal Pre-K is to have a more formal method of providing and tracking having this available to more parents and their children. It may in effect be an expansion of daycare options for those with young children not already in school.

Now that I recall, it was just a half-day. My mother worked at my Elementary School at the time as an aide.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: hal
Date: November 29, 2021 01:07PM
My sister was so traumatized by pre-school that I wasn't sent.

Kindergarten was just a mysterious blur to me. I don't remember much aside from naptime and the teacher telling us to put our heads down and keep them there for the nap period. She would usually go to the class next door during nap time, but warned us not to misbehave because she had Xray eyes (point to both eyes with both hands) and can see what we are doing while she is away.

That school was such a mystery... I'd go through the front doors and enter Kindergarten that was the first door on the left once inside. I never penetrated further into the school building and never knew what it was like. We moved to California before I entered 1st grade.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: deckeda
Date: November 29, 2021 01:47PM
Perhaps I was unclear. Yes, we do have pre-K “universally” however it’s not truly available if families cannot afford it. If it’s magically included in some states’ school buildings, and at zero out of pocket cost to the parent, that’s great. It certainly wasn’t that way for where we were in GA a few years ago.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Robert M
Date: November 29, 2021 02:00PM
Deck,

You can't go by what things were like a few years ago. Things have changed tremendously in that time. Sure, pre-K was available if parents were willing to pay for it back then. Now, pre-K is becoming available via school districts at no cost to the parents/caregivers. It's a different world.

Robert
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 29, 2021 03:00PM
Headstart is Pre-k, and pretty well established in much of the country. But targeting low income populations. Several large ones, in and around Pittsburgh, are operated by the local Native American council, interestingly.

Kindergarten started as a movement of its own, it was not originally within the scope of public education.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 03:03PM by Acer.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: November 29, 2021 03:59PM
Quote
Robert M
Deck,

You can't go by what things were like a few years ago. Things have changed tremendously in that time. Sure, pre-K was available if parents were willing to pay for it back then. Now, pre-K is becoming available via school districts at no cost to the parents/caregivers. It's a different world.

Robert

Yes, this. Part of what drives the push for pre-K (a very large part, I might add) is the insane child care costs associated with "daycare." When we had two kids in day care, it was nearly as much as our monthly house mortgage.

But pre-K is often only a few hours per day. In many school districts, full day K is only about two decades old.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2021 03:59PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: November 29, 2021 04:25PM
Here are some facts about voluntary, universal pre-k.
[earlysuccess.org]

Florida, Vermont and DC have it in full already. That means any family that wants it can enroll their child. 6 other states have "almost" universal pre-k.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: November 29, 2021 07:12PM
Florida has universal pre-k, but unsurprisingly it was more about politics than actual accomplishment. The program reimburses private Day Care facilities for a half-day of instruction. That leaves most parents paying for a half-day of childcare. The requirements for the "teachers" are to have certification if early childhood development.

Sounds fancy, but I administered those tests to disinterested high school students - the passing rate was around 70%.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
-- François de La Rochefoucauld

Growing older is mandatory. Growing up is optional.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: November 29, 2021 08:17PM
Florida's preK is badly underfunded and generally low quality unless the parents can afford a spendy preschool where a few hours a day are subsidized. That is not what voters were promised, and it's another reason we need federal standards.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 30, 2021 02:12AM
Quote
wave rider
Quote
samintx
1st grade was it in my day…1930’s. Maybe kindergarten for really rich kids.

I too went straight to first grade in the 1950s. No pre or kindergarten for me. Got into first grade a little early, I was 17 when I graduated high school.

I was exactly a contemporary of wave rider, no pre or kindergarten and graduated at 17. But in the pre and K years I lived next to a vast forest and the largest freshwater lake in the world. It was a magical place with lots of young kids and bears in the street.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 30, 2021 10:18AM
Quote
Speedy
It was a magical place with lots of young kids and bears in the street.

Survivor bias. What about the kids who were eaten? Bet they wish they had a safe pre-K to be in.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 30, 2021 04:36PM
Quote
Acer
Quote
Speedy
It was a magical place with lots of young kids and bears in the street.

Survivor bias. What about the kids who were eaten? Bet they wish they had a safe pre-K to be in.

None were eaten. The word traveled fast down the street that there was a bear making its way. But there was a nice wooded area across the street that we loved to play in. Of course, I had three siblings so one getting eaten wouldn’t have been a hardship for my family.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: vision63
Date: November 30, 2021 06:41PM
Quote
Speedy
Quote
Acer
Quote
Speedy
It was a magical place with lots of young kids and bears in the street.

Survivor bias. What about the kids who were eaten? Bet they wish they had a safe pre-K to be in.

None were eaten. The word traveled fast down the street that there was a bear making its way. But there was a nice wooded area across the street that we loved to play in. Of course, I had three siblings so one getting eaten wouldn’t have been a hardship for my family.

One less egg to fry. I would have enjoyed the bears.
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Re: How come we didn't need Pre-School?
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: December 02, 2021 05:38PM
Kindergarten at age 4.x, no Pre-K, graduated senior year at 17.

I have no problem with a district having pre-K and K levels.

Not at all familiar with current school structure (no such thing as 'middle-school' in my say) I don't know if there is pre-k in the local school districts.

But if we think of First Grade as a level of learning, I think it important to have some idea of school structure, certainly some level of knowledge, and some basic social skills before expecting kids to come home knowing something they didn't when they left the house.

During my time in school listening to teachers talk, so many parents weren't really involved in teaching kids much of anything – 'isn't that the teacher's job?'





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