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vision63
It's not killed. It's still resolvable.

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Ted King
And that's why the House progressives tried to their best to link passage of the physical infrastructure bill with the Build Back Better bill.

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Ted King
And that's why the House progressives tried to their best to link passage of the physical infrastructure bill with the Build Back Better bill.

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pdq
What irritates me most is Manchin playing rope-a-dope all this time. So much for $3T is too much; half it. So much for the “agreement” with House progressives.

The most charitable interpretation is that he’s just flaky and changed his mind. I think it more likely that he knew all along he wasn’t going to vote for it and just yanked everyone around for uncertain reasons. I suspect he personally sought to gain stop-the-libs cred with his red state base.

Don’t know how it would be accomplished, but I’d make him pay for this if at all possible.

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In a more than 700-word statement, [Press Secretary] Psaki said, “If his comments on FOX and written statement indicate an end to that effort, they represent a sudden and inexplicable reversal in his position, and a breach of his commitments to the President and the Senator’s colleagues in the House and Senate.”

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vision63

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Ted King
And that's why the House progressives tried to their best to link passage of the physical infrastructure bill with the Build Back Better bill.

Then they voted no on it, while touting it to their constituents as if they invented it because projects are rolling out.

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Ombligo
The next shoe to drop is when he flips to Republican, giving McConnell back the Senate. I expect that is the next week or two.

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vision63
It’s Time for Democrats to Buck Up and Give Joe Manchin What He Wants
[slate.com]

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Ted King

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Ombligo
The next shoe to drop is when he flips to Republican, giving McConnell back the Senate. I expect that is the next week or two.

Yesterday I would have said that that was unlikely, but today...

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vision63
Biden isn't a dummy. He's a former Senator. Down deep, he doesn't like a lot in this bill. He doesn't like how so much of it is temporarily funded. That's Manchin's big problem with it. Manchin wants to fund programs for a set period, say for 10 years with a sunset. This bill wants to fund programs for 3/4 years and be extended when they expire.

To Manchin, He wants to see precise funding for set periods. But Biden, can't come out and say this to his party. Not now. Manchin will show Democrats what he wants, but it just isn't the climate for Democrats to sign off on it.

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RgrF

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vision63
It’s Time for Democrats to Buck Up and Give Joe Manchin What He Wants
[slate.com]

Hasn't it always been national policy to not give in to terrorists?

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“Less than 30 minutes before” his appearance on the conservative news channel’s Sunday morning show, Manchin told an aide to notify the White House and members of his own party about his massive, sudden decision, Politico reports. An official at the White House told the outlet’s Playbook newsletter reporters that they placed a call to Manchin.

…Manchin “refused to take a call from White House staff,” they revealed.

…” I’ve done everything humanly possible,” Manchin claimed on air.

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“Senator Manchin’s comments this morning on FOX are at odds with his discussions this week with the President, with White House staff, and with his own public utterances. Weeks ago, Senator Manchin committed to the President, at his home in Wilmington, to support the Build Back Better framework that the President then subsequently announced.”

… “On Tuesday of this week, Senator Manchin came to the White House and submitted—to the President, in person, directly—a written outline for a Build Back Better bill that was the same size and scope as the President’s framework, and covered many of the same priorities”

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pdq
Honestly, I’d come down hard. Strip him of all committee assignments. Let him switch parties. He’s far worse than being a Republican.

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mattkime

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pdq
Honestly, I’d come down hard. Strip him of all committee assignments. Let him switch parties. He’s far worse than being a Republican.

While I share your anger for Manchin, having him flip republican would be considerably worse. We're getting judges appointed.

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vision63
Biden isn't a dummy. He's a former Senator. Down deep, he doesn't like a lot in this bill. He doesn't like how so much of it is temporarily funded. That's Manchin's big problem with it. Manchin wants to fund programs for a set period, say for 10 years with a sunset. This bill wants to fund programs for 3/4 years and be extended when they expire.

To Manchin, He wants to see precise funding for set periods. But Biden, can't come out and say this to his party. Not now. Manchin will show Democrats what he wants, but it just isn't the climate for Democrats to sign off on it. So now they have to play this game.

It would have been quicker and easier to go this route.

It’s Time for Democrats to Buck Up and Give Joe Manchin What He Wants
[slate.com]

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I don’t want to leave the impression that Joe Manchin has been an overall force for good or sanity in the BBB negotiations. He’s weakened the bill’s climate provisions (though they remain very strong regardless). And his insistence on capping the size of the legislation is a major part of the reason Democrats have resorted to budget gimmicks like temporary funding in the first place. I would also argue that it doesn’t make sense for Democrats to fully pay for the cost of spending that is meant to be temporary, such as green energy tax credits designed to transition the grid off of fossil fuels; mainstream public finance theory suggests that kind of spending can be safely deficit-financed.

But if you accept Manchin’s demand to keep the bill’s total around $2 trillion—and at this point, Democrats have—then it also makes sense to design the legislation his way, with fewer programs set to last long-term. Caving to Manchin’s demands will require Democrats to sacrifice some worthy parts of their agenda. But it’s time for them to buck up and do it, lest they end up with nothing at all.

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During a private meeting in July, Sen. Joe Manchin and Majority Leader Chuck Schumer sat down to negotiate what exactly it would take for Democrats to unlock Manchin's vote to start the process of considering President Joe Biden’s massive social and environmental bill…Both signed it, with reservations.

Nearly five months later, much of what Manchin wanted has been delivered. But fellow Democrats appear nowhere close to gaining the conservative senator's support…

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Manchin wrote in the document that he wanted a $1. 5 trillion topline — far less than the $3.5 trillion Biden proposed.

Biden halved the amount to $1.75 trillion when it became clear Manchin could accept that.

Manchin wanted to begin debate on the legislation no earlier than Oct. 1…That date has passed.

Manchin insisted the corporate tax rate, which Biden proposed raising to 28%, not inch past 25%. In fact, it ended up not being raised at all…

[Manchin,] the coal-state senator, insisted on a “fuel neutral” energy policy — essentially one that does not favor wind, solar and other renewable energy sources over fossil fuels, such as coal and natural…After Manchin objected, the White House scrapped plans for a nationwide clean energy standard that environmental advocates viewed as the most significant tool for curbing climate change.

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Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., leader of the Congressional Progressive Caucus… said Manchin agreed to a framework for the bill in October, which spelled out the plan’s priorities and costs but didn’t limit the duration of any of them. Manchin, she predicted, will “hold to his commitment."

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Filliam H. Muffman
Manchin is protecting the 0.1%. He doesn't care about his constituents. Same thing for Sinema, she cares much more about business owners than the working class.

Remember, the Senate is 48 Dems, 2 Independents that usually vote Dem, and 50 Repubs. I said it almost a year ago, Dems need to find an attractive alternative and primary Manchin. I now think Sinema falls into that camp, and maybe Gillibrand too. They nearly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by not turning enough Senate seats in 2020 when independents were turning out to reject the party of the Mango Mussolini.

17 Republican Senate seats up for election in 2022. How many of those races have viable Democratic candidates? Five are listed as less than solid R: Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida. These are possible battlegrounds for Republicans. Dems have three vulnerable states they absolutely need to keep: Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada. Turning two Senate seats would take the power from Sinema and Manchin.

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pdq
What Manchin wanted, got, and then rejected in Biden's $2T bill*

Manchin insisted the corporate tax rate, which Biden proposed raising to 28%, not inch past 25%. In fact, it ended up not being raised at all…

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Ted King

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pdq
What Manchin wanted, got, and then rejected in Biden's $2T bill*

Manchin insisted the corporate tax rate, which Biden proposed raising to 28%, not inch past 25%. In fact, it ended up not being raised at all…

That's one of the things that is really galling to me about what Manchin has done. He basically insisted on little to no tax increases that were included in Biden's proposal that would have paid for a big chunk of the spending. And then he turned around and used the fact that deficit spending would go up so much if the proposed bill was passed to argue against the bill. More evidence he never really wanted any part of the Build Back Better bill.

I think it looks like Manchin really, really wanted the "roads and bridges" infrastructure bill passed and couldn't get it past progressives unless he committed to supporting the Build Back Better bill (with significant reductions). It seems like once he got his infrastructure bill passed, then he went big time into rope-a-dope. I suspect he thought he could keep the rope-a-dope going a fair bit longer before finding some excuse to ditch Build Back Better but got mad that fellow Democrats and journalists were pressing him hard on what the heck he was doing, so he just said f**k you guys, I'll go to Fox and flip you all a giant bird.

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vision63

Steve Schmidt (of all people) really breaks down what at stake for Manchin from Manchin's perspective in a perceptive thread. He's telling the truth and it makes sense even though it's very frustrating.

[twitter.com]

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bfd
Problem here is that there's no scenario short of a massive stroke or heart failure that can remove Manchin from the Senate. Politics at its finest, your gubmint dollars at work!

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Ombligo

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bfd
Problem here is that there's no scenario short of a massive stroke or heart failure that can remove Manchin from the Senate. Politics at its finest, your gubmint dollars at work!

wouldn't matter - The Democrat WV governor flipped to the Republican party a few months after being elected. He did so at a Trump Rally.

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Ted King
All I see in that tweet thread is that Democrats denying Manchin committee assignments isn't a good idea. I don't think many Democrats in D.C. think that doing so is a good idea and neither do I so that's not adding much...

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Sam3

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Filliam H. Muffman
Manchin is protecting the 0.1%. He doesn't care about his constituents. Same thing for Sinema, she cares much more about business owners than the working class.

Remember, the Senate is 48 Dems, 2 Independents that usually vote Dem, and 50 Repubs. I said it almost a year ago, Dems need to find an attractive alternative and primary Manchin. I now think Sinema falls into that camp, and maybe Gillibrand too. They nearly snatched defeat from the jaws of victory by not turning enough Senate seats in 2020 when independents were turning out to reject the party of the Mango Mussolini.

17 Republican Senate seats up for election in 2022. How many of those races have viable Democratic candidates? Five are listed as less than solid R: Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, and Florida. These are possible battlegrounds for Republicans. Dems have three vulnerable states they absolutely need to keep: Arizona, Georgia, and Nevada. Turning two Senate seats would take the power from Sinema and Manchin.

Michigan has 2 Dem senators, Peters and Stabenow. Not sure why you thought Michigan was less than solid R.

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RgrF
Bringing elements of the omnibus as separate free standing bills and forcing a vote on each over a period of time has appeal. Make it like the drip, drip, drip of water torture and make it last right up until mid-terms.

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$tevie
If I was in charge, I'd put everything back into the bill the way it was before Manchin got his dirty paws on it.
I'd begin a massive PR campaign to explain BBB to the public rather than let the GOP and the media scare everyone with the "OMG 1.75 trillion!" crapola. Congress just gave the Pentagon $778 Billion for ONE year. Someone smarter than me can do the math and show how defense spending dwarfs BBB and if we stop forcing unwanted projects down the military's throats we can instantly have more money for Biden's agenda.

Then after the bill is defeated, and it will be, I would do a PR blitz naming the Senators who voted against it and say things like "Senator XXX would rather pay $75 billion to Lockheed Martin than lower your insulin cost to $35 a month." "Senator YYY would rather pay for a plane that the military said they do not want, than to help a woman get off welfare by providing child care." "Senator ZZZ would rather fix the infrastructure in German military bases than fix the bridge in your home town." or whatever, these are super rough ideas.

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RgrF
Bringing elements of the omnibus as separate free standing bills and forcing a vote on each over a period of time has appeal. Make it like the drip, drip, drip of water torture and make it last right up until mid-terms.

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RgrF
Bringing elements of the omnibus as separate free standing bills and forcing a vote on each over a period of time has appeal. Make it like the drip, drip, drip of water torture and make it last right up until mid-terms.

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pdq

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RgrF
Bringing elements of the omnibus as separate free standing bills and forcing a vote on each over a period of time has appeal. Make it like the drip, drip, drip of water torture and make it last right up until mid-terms.

I don’t think that would work with the filibuster in place. The GOP would shoot down each one, one after the other, and there’d be nothing passed, with the Dems looking ineffectual.

Politics is the art of the possible. BBB looked very possible until Manchin got on Fox News.

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RgrF