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“ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: btfc
Date: February 17, 2022 12:43PM
“ For over a decade, the US has blended ethanol with gasoline in an attempt to reduce the overall carbon pollution produced by fossil fuel-powered cars and trucks. But a new study says that the practice may not be achieving its goals. In fact, burning ethanol made from corn—the major source in the US—may be worse for the climate than just burning gasoline alone.

Corn drove demand for land and fertilizer far higher than previous assessments had estimated. Together, the additional land and fertilizer drove up ethanol’s carbon footprint to the point where the lifecycle greenhouse gas emissions—from seed to tank—were higher than that of gasoline. Some researchers predicted this might happen, but the new paper provides a comprehensive and retrospective look at the real-world results of the policy. “



[arstechnica.com]
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Ammo
Date: February 17, 2022 12:47PM
But farmers make a lot of money growing corn.



Where is there dignity unless there is also honesty? - Cicero
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: February 17, 2022 01:21PM
I doubt it will be removed from gasoline any time soon. Too many big investors would lose money.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 17, 2022 01:50PM
This is not news, environmentalists have been complaining about it for years. While it may have seemed like a good, even environmental, idea at one time, in practice it has not borne out, the physics of energy being what they are.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/17/2022 01:51PM by Acer.
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Carnos Jax
Date: February 17, 2022 01:56PM
Yup, this is the most stupidest thing that was ever concocted (and I have an engineering background and can understand why this is stupid, though even someone with a high school background should be able to make the same conclusion).
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: pdq
Date: February 17, 2022 02:49PM
What I’ve heard is that turning sugar cane into ethanol like the Brazilians do can be a net gain.

But corn to ethanol has been suspect for awhile. Unfortunately, that ship is going to be hard to turn, as Ammo notes.
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: February 17, 2022 04:00PM
...what about the corn.....hole....??



_____________________________________

I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Racer X
Date: February 17, 2022 05:06PM
And, the consumers get screwed in the process. E-10 contains about 3% less energy a gallon. E-85 I think is about 28% less.

If auto manufacturers wanted to improve fuel economy, they should fight tooth and nail to kill off gasahol.

I don't think there are any compelling upsides for the country as a whole. Some groups benefit, but not everyone.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Acer
Date: February 17, 2022 05:08PM
Quote
Racer X
And, the consumers get screwed in the process. E-10 contains about 3% less energy a gallon. E-85 I think is about 28% less.

If auto manufacturers wanted to improve fuel economy, they should fight tooth and nail to kill off gasahol.

I don't think there are any compelling upsides for the country as a whole. Some groups benefit, but not everyone.

WHY DO HATE SMALL FAMILY FARMERS, RACER X?

/s
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Speedy
Date: February 17, 2022 05:25PM
Raise switch grass.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: kj
Date: February 17, 2022 05:58PM
Quote
Acer
This is not news, environmentalists have been complaining about it for years. While it may have seemed like a good, even environmental, idea at one time, in practice it has not borne out, the physics of energy being what they are.

No doubt, I've been hearing how stupid it is for 30yrs. And it is.
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Pam
Date: February 17, 2022 06:10PM
Turn the corn fields into solar fields or wind farms
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: Ted King
Date: February 17, 2022 06:13PM
Quote
kj
Quote
Acer
This is not news, environmentalists have been complaining about it for years. While it may have seemed like a good, even environmental, idea at one time, in practice it has not borne out, the physics of energy being what they are.

No doubt, I've been hearing how stupid it is for 30yrs. And it is.

Yeah, maybe, but clean coal is smart, right?



e pluribus unum
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: RgrF
Date: February 17, 2022 06:59PM
The oil depletion allowance is still on the books so don't expect the corn agricultural giveaway to be reformed anytime soon. Conservatives complain about how temporary government initiatives become permanent (see wartime telephone tax) but fail to notice that big business* is addicted and responsible for much ongoing wasteful government.

*oil, big ag, defense contractors and the like.
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: MacArtist
Date: February 17, 2022 08:26PM
All ethanol has been successful at is propping up the corn market for farmers that don’t want to invest in equipment to grow anything else. Richest soil here in Iowa and nothing but corn and soybeans planted in it.

Farmers used to rotate between those 2 crops and now they knife in anhydrous ammonia fertilizer to grow corn back to back. And all that fertilizer runs off into the waterways and ends up in the Gulf of Mexico creating a growing dead zone. The upriver states don’t want to bear any responsibility ($) for their actions. But they love the tax dollars generated by the fertilizer plants.

The ethanol plants use a huge amount of water and electricity. Enough to resources to satisfy a small city’s needs.

And now they want to build infrastructure to collect all the carbon dioxide generated by the ethanol plants to transport and sequester it.

Think about all the fuel and resources required by corn farmers, fertilizer mfg and ethanol plants…we dealing with a zero sum game.



I sit on a man’s back, choking him and making
him carry me, and yet assure myself and others
that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his
lot by all possible means — except by getting off
his back. - Leo Tolstoy, novelist and Philosopher
(1828-1910)

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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: deckeda
Date: February 17, 2022 09:26PM
Quote
Speedy
Raise switch grass.

I see you.


Quote

"We'll also fund additional research in cutting-edge methods of reducing ethanol, not just from corn but wood chips and stalks, or switch grass," Bush said during [the 2006 State of the Union] speech.
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Re: “ Corn ethanol no better—and probably worse—than burning gasoline “
Posted by: kj
Date: February 17, 2022 11:17PM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
kj
Quote
Acer
This is not news, environmentalists have been complaining about it for years. While it may have seemed like a good, even environmental, idea at one time, in practice it has not borne out, the physics of energy being what they are.

No doubt, I've been hearing how stupid it is for 30yrs. And it is.

Yeah, maybe, but clean coal is smart, right?

Just as obviously stupid.
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