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Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 15, 2022 06:42AM
Not ONLY can I pack heat wherever I roam in the state, I don't even have to tell a police officer if I'm stopped that I have a weapon on me.

Hoo boy... .there's gonna be a whole lot more police shootings. Because every single citizen can be packing, so they will 'feel at risk'.

I can hear the discussions in the Russian Rifle Association....

"Ve don't need to invade, zey will all just shoot each other and ve can just roll in and take."
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 15, 2022 10:15AM
Just means you don't need to apply for a CWP. All other laws still apply. Felons still can't own/carry firearms. Not that they give a @#$%&.

The only people affected by laws are those that follow them.

I'm licensed to carry concealed in about 36 states. Number fluctuates as reciprocity requirements change.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2022 10:16AM by Racer X.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: March 15, 2022 11:26AM
RacerX… good points.

I’ve never carried. I just stay away from places where I may be at risk.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: March 15, 2022 11:42AM

'Weekend In The Park With Cbelt'
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 15, 2022 12:00PM
And everyone still has to go through the Federal NICS background check, assuming that state doesn't exempt private sales, to acquire the firearm.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: jdc
Date: March 15, 2022 02:50PM
Sweet... hows the stand your ground laws?

So anyone that comes up to you... just bang bang... cause I thought they were a threat...





Edited 999 time(s). Last edit at 12:08PM by jdc.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: p8712
Date: March 15, 2022 06:02PM
Quote

Not ONLY can I pack heat wherever I roam in the state, I don't even have to tell a police officer if I'm stopped that I have a weapon on me.

"I feel threatened!" *pew pew* -Belt,y in an upcoming dash-cam video.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 15, 2022 08:13PM
Quote
cbelt3
Not ONLY can I pack heat wherever I roam in the state, I don't even have to tell a police officer if I'm stopped that I have a weapon on me.

Hoo boy... .there's gonna be a whole lot more police shootings. Because every single citizen can be packing, so they will 'feel at risk'.

I can hear the discussions in the Russian Rifle Association....

"Ve don't need to invade, zey will all just shoot each other and ve can just roll in and take."

Different states have different requirements on reporting firearms at traffic stops. In Washington, my CWP is noted if an officer runs my plates. Then they ask specifically, and I am required to then be truthful.

I explain these firearms-related issues, not to be verbose, but to educate. News reports are geared towards grabbing attention, not necessarily to EDUCATE, which is why I feel I must educate others myself.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2022 08:17PM by Racer X.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 15, 2022 08:32PM
Quote
Racer X
And everyone still has to go through the Federal NICS background check, assuming that state doesn't exempt private sales, to acquire the firearm.

“Everyone” = residents of a distinct minority of states (wikipedia:22 of 50 - Ohio doesn’t require such a check)…despite evidence suggesting homicides are decreased by such checks, and multiple surveys showing something like 85% of Americans (both gun owning and not) favor universal background checks. That’s roughly 6 to 1 in favor of such laws.

The NRA, of course, opposes.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 16, 2022 12:08AM
ALL, I repeat ALL purchases of a serialized receiver or full firearm done through a LICENSED FEDERAL FIREARMS DEALER MUST have a background check run. If a business sells a firearm or serialized receiver without holding the appropriate FFL, they are omitting at least one felony per item.

Private sales or TRANSFERS (not an ownership change, but a loan) may or may not, depending on state laws.

So, what I originally said is exactly true. If going through a dealer, EVERYONE, (even law enforcement) if done as a private person to person sale, depends.

"And everyone still has to go through the Federal NICS background check, assuming that state doesn't exempt private sales, to acquire the firearm."

You just stated what I did, with a wikipedia link. You are trying to rebut me, when we said the same thing. RollingEyesSmiley5

I have no issue with universal background checks. I also think the penalties for unlawful ownership are way too low.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2022 12:11AM by Racer X.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 16, 2022 12:43AM
Quote
Racer X
ALL, I repeat ALL purchases of a serialized receiver or full firearm done through a LICENSED FEDERAL FIREARMS DEALER MUST have a background check run. If a business sells a firearm or serialized receiver without holding the appropriate FFL, they are omitting at least one felony per item.

Private sales or TRANSFERS (not an ownership change, but a loan) may or may not, depending on state laws.

Actually, you didn’t say “through a licensed federal firearms dealer” above. You said everyone, assuming the state doesn’t exempt private sales. Which subtly suggests that would be an unusual situation. It’s not. It’s the rule, not the exception. And it’s not even close.

As I said, most states don’t have state laws requiring background checks in private sales or things like gun shows. Wikipedia says that something like 78% of gun sales go through background checks. That’s great. But ~70 million Americans have a criminal record, and over 8% of Americans have a felony on their record (It varies; in GA, it’s about twice that.)

But no problem. Go to a gun show in a majority of states, swear you don’t have a record, get a gun. Easy.

Quote

You are trying to rebut me, when we said the same thing. RollingEyesSmiley5

Not exactly “rebut”. I just think it is unusual, for someone saying they’re just trying to educate people, to leave out the part about the gaping holes in the regulation of gun sales in this country.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 16, 2022 01:07AM
If the sale is through a business, here in the United States, each and every one of those businesses MUST have the appropriate FFL. No exceptions. Not through a business is a "private sale"

So, buying from an unlicensed business will net the business one felony for the sale, and ANOTHER for not running the NICS check.

Now, depending on the state, there may be an additional state check for anything current, like a just issued protection order. Washington does those for semi auto rifles, and all handguns. These are for FFL purchases.


But remember, criminals almost universally DON'T buy from a FFL, so they wouldn't get a background check anyway. So, required or not, it's a moot point.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 16, 2022 07:43AM
Quote
Racer X
But remember, criminals almost universally DON'T buy from a FFL, so they wouldn't get a background check.

Why should they, when the “gun show loophole” or a private sale allows them to evade a background check in a majority of states? It’s a simple way to get a gun into the hands of someone who wouldn’t be able to pass a background check.

And that’s not a moot point.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 16, 2022 11:56AM
My point is, even if there is a requirement for background checks on ALL firearm sales in a state, through a dealer or private sale, criminals don't, by definition, comply with the law.

When one gang banger trades or buys from another, requiring a background check isn't going to stop the transaction. Or they flat out steal one.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 16, 2022 01:22PM
We started this with you suggesting that “everyone still has to go through the Federal NICS background check”. I pointed out that ignores a huge loophole for the majority of the country.

Now you seem to be saying that doesn’t matter, because criminals by definition don’t follow the law.

Why do we have any laws then?
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 16, 2022 02:04PM
Quote
pdq
We started this with you suggesting that “everyone still has to go through the Federal NICS background check”. I pointed out that ignores a huge loophole for the majority of the country.

Now you seem to be saying that doesn’t matter, because criminals by definition don’t follow the law.

Why do we have any laws then?

They encourage honest people to stay honest. Just like padlocks, or locked doors. If someone wants in, glass breaks VERY easily. Numerous studies with a lot of collected data proves that the vast majority of firearms in the hands of criminals are stolen.

One of the reasons we have the high crime rates in some areas is because repeat offenders don't actually get punished enough to deter them from doing it again. Or, for that matter, get charged and convicted in the first place.

If a corporation gets fined for breaking the law, if the fine is less than the profit, it's just the cost of doing business.

We do what we can.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 16, 2022 08:48PM
Interesting info on where criminals get their guns. [www.pbs.org]

It looks like dirty FFL businesses are a major source.

This I was surprised by "Stolen guns account for only about 10% to 15% of guns used in crimes,"

also [bjs.ojp.gov]

I was off a bit on some of what I thought were accurate numbers and assumptions, but here is what REALLY sticks out "Among prisoners who possessed a firearm during their offense, 0.8% obtained it at a gun show" so much for the gun show loophole being a major source for criminals

and "Among prisoners who possessed a gun during their offense, 90% did not obtain it from a retail source." so not coming from a legally operating licensed dealer (FFL)



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/16/2022 08:54PM by Racer X.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Acer
Date: March 16, 2022 11:39PM
90% not retail
~90% not stolen
99% not from a gun show

So, where are the guns used in crimes coming from, if not stolen but also not legally purchased? Illegally purchased, then? From who? Who is selling guns illegally, and where are they getting their stock?
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: March 17, 2022 12:21AM
It's been known for at least ten years that most guns in NYC come from a few dozen gun stores in surrounding states with much more lenient laws. It is usually a very similar situation in most other high crime cities that have tough gun laws.

Just because a felon did not personally buy a gun at a gun show does not preclude a straw buyer from being the original purchaser.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 17, 2022 12:25AM
Quote
Acer
90% not retail
~90% not stolen
99% not from a gun show

So, where are the guns used in crimes coming from, if not stolen but also not legally purchased? Illegally purchased, then? From who? Who is selling guns illegally, and where are they getting their stock?

essentially the largest % are coming from a small number of FFL holders dealing illegally. Fake sales, straw sales, "lost" or "stolen" from the FFL.

"ATF officials say that only about 8% of the nation's 124,000 retail gun dealers sell the majority of handguns that are used in crimes. They conclude that these licensed retailers are part of a block of rogue entrepreneurs tempted by the big profits of gun trafficking. "

This was a surprise to me.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 17, 2022 02:12AM
Quote
Filliam H. Muffman
It's been known for at least ten years that most guns in NYC come from a few dozen gun stores in surrounding states with much more lenient laws. It is usually a very similar situation in most other high crime cities that have tough gun laws.

Just because a felon did not personally buy a gun at a gun show does not preclude a straw buyer from being the original purchaser.
I would assume that this was figured into the less than 1% number quoted in the article.

But in those FFL gun shops outside draconian jurisdictions, they still have to follow FEDERAL law and conduct the NICS background check. So we are back to FFL holders not following the law, or straw purchases, or FFL holders purposefully operating illegally.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: March 17, 2022 09:04AM
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Acer
Date: March 17, 2022 09:30AM
"essentially the largest % are coming from a small number of FFL holders dealing illegally. Fake sales, straw sales, "lost" or "stolen" from the FFL. "

This a frickin' MASSIVE leak in the system, is it not???
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: pdq
Date: March 17, 2022 09:56AM
Jeff Wachtel, ATF agent (from Racer’s link):

Quote

"Let's be honest. If someone wants a gun, it's obvious the person will not have difficulty buying a gun, either legally or through the extensive United States black market."

In my local paper today, they just got a guilty plea from the last of three young folks (22 to 34 years old) who had straw-purchased a total of 97 guns for others for $100 each (over the price of the guns). Eighteen of the guns had already been “found by law enforcement officials at crime scenes”.

Ninety seven guns purchased by 3 people. Not all that unusual; some folks have hundreds of guns.

BTW, the other 79 have not (yet!) been recovered. They’ll continue to trickle in the same way as the others. Kind of like crime…uh, money in the bank, just waiting to be spent.

We have way too many guns in this country. It’s a plague upon us all. And it’s getting worse.
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Re: Hey, Ho, way to go Ohio.... concealed Carry uncontrolled as of 6-12-22
Posted by: Racer X
Date: March 17, 2022 02:52PM
That's an ATF enforcement issue, between the FFL holders/business and the ATF, allowing that many straw purchases to happen. "In December, Elwood and Jackson also pleaded guilty on one count each. All three could face up to 10 years in prison and a fine of up to $250,000." Plead guilty to ONE count? For 97 firearms? That's a joke. That's an enforcement issue.

Each 4473 form Sarah Elwood lied on is a separate felony. They have the actual documents she falsely filled out, and signed in front of a witness. That's 97 felonies. Letting her plead guilty to ONE count is an enforcement issue, and a joke, and an insult.

The laws are in place.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2022 03:12PM by Racer X.
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