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Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: pdq
Date: April 09, 2022 05:01PM
Details at this time are sketchy. Texas law apparently exempts the mother from criminal charges, and so it’s unclear under which law this woman is being charged.

Quote
WaPo

A 26-year-old woman in Texas was arrested and charged with murder after what authorities claimed was a “self-induced abortion,” the Associated Press reported Saturday.

Lizelle Herrera was arrested Thursday in Starr County, a county along the Rio Grande and the country’s southern border with Mexico. In a statement to the AP, the local sheriff’s office said that Herrera was charged after “intentionally and knowingly causing the death of an individual by self-induced abortion,” without providing details of which legal statute she had violated.

… Herrera’s bail had been set at $500,000 and she was being held at the Starr County jail in Rio Grande City.

Sounds like the day has come. Is this what Republican women wanted?
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: April 09, 2022 07:40PM
Here's the local version
[www.tpr.org]

Good to see so many advocating for this woman. It appears the charges are a mistake based on Texas law. There is no provision to charge a woman whose pregnancy is terminated with murder.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Ted King
Date: April 09, 2022 07:46PM
Does this mean Abbot is one up on DeSantis in the culture wars score?



e pluribus unum
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Ted King
Date: April 10, 2022 03:10PM
[www.politico.com]

Quote

RIO GRANDE CITY, Texas — A Texas district attorney said Sunday that he will ask a judge to dismiss a murder charge against a woman who allegedly gave herself an abortion.

Lizelle Herrera was arrested Thursday in Rio Grande City, a community of about 14,000 people along the Mexico border, after a Starr County grand jury indicted her on March 30 for murder for causing the death of a fetus or embryo through a self-induced abortion.

District Attorney Gocha Allen Ramirez said Sunday that his office would move to dismiss the charge Monday.

“In reviewing this case, it is clear that Ms. Herrera cannot and should not be prosecuted for the allegation against her,” Ramirez said in a statement.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Speedy
Date: April 10, 2022 03:40PM
Will they also dismiss the indictment against the ham sandwich?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: RgrF
Date: April 10, 2022 03:55PM
If the DA won't prosecute, who brought the indictment, the sheriff? Not sure how that works in Tejas.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: hal
Date: April 10, 2022 04:46PM
[www.washingtonpost.com]

The district attorney’s office in a Texas border county said Sunday it would dismiss the case against Lizelle Herrera, a 26-year-old who was arrested on murder charges after what authorities said was a “self-induced abortion."

The case had confounded activists on both sides of the abortion debate because, although Texas has taken measures to restrict access to abortion, it was not clear which legal statute Herrera was alleged to have violated. Texas law also explicitly exempts a woman from a criminal homicide charge for aborting her pregnancy.

In a statement made to the Associated Press last week, the Starr County Sheriff’s Office merely stated that Herrera was charged after “intentionally and knowingly causing the death of an individual by self-induced abortion.”

On Sunday, the district attorney’s office stated that this was “not a criminal matter.”

“In reviewing applicable Texas law, it is clear that Ms. Herrera cannot and should not be prosecuted for the allegation against her,” District Attorney Gocha Allen Ramirez wrote.

The case was brought to the attention of the sheriff’s office by a hospital, according to Ramirez’s statement.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: April 10, 2022 04:58PM
Someone at the hospital broke medical-confidentiality and turned her in, thinking they could get a $10 grand reward.

They thought they were going to automatically get $10k, but at best they had a right to sue. Texas allows any bystander to sue anyone who provides or aids an abortion procedure for $10k plus legal fees. Apparently, lawmakers have not done a good job of letting people know that the cash is not automatically handed over.



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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: pdq
Date: April 10, 2022 05:21PM
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: PeterB
Date: April 10, 2022 07:59PM
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder? Presumably this now means that RU-486 is illegal?

How exactly are they going to prove this? Raid a woman's medicine cabinet?

Edit: I just answered my own question: [www.texasstandard.org]

facepalm facepalm facepalm




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2022 08:10PM by PeterB.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: April 10, 2022 08:34PM
Quote
PeterB
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder?

Maybe. After 7 weeks of gestation.

(Should have included the "7 weeks" in my earlier post. Not every abortion will qualify for the $10 awards to stoolies.)

Of course, most women wouldn't even know they were pregnant until well after that.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2022 08:35PM by Tiangou.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: PeterB
Date: April 10, 2022 09:37PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder?

Maybe. After 7 weeks of gestation.

(Should have included the "7 weeks" in my earlier post. Not every abortion will qualify for the $10 awards to stoolies.)

Of course, most women wouldn't even know they were pregnant until well after that.

And how are they going to know it was after 7 weeks? They'd have to be able to figure out the exact date of conception, and again, good luck getting that information from the woman and/or her partner.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Racer X
Date: April 10, 2022 09:44PM
So, anyone turn the nurse in for HIPAA violations? Sounds fair to me.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: April 10, 2022 09:49PM
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder?

Maybe. After 7 weeks of gestation.

(Should have included the "7 weeks" in my earlier post. Not every abortion will qualify for the $10 awards to stoolies.)

Of course, most women wouldn't even know they were pregnant until well after that.

And how are they going to know it was after 7 weeks? They'd have to be able to figure out the exact date of conception, and again, good luck getting that information from the woman and/or her partner.

They don't owe court fees if they bring a bad case.



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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: PeterB
Date: April 10, 2022 09:51PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder?

Maybe. After 7 weeks of gestation.

(Should have included the "7 weeks" in my earlier post. Not every abortion will qualify for the $10 awards to stoolies.)

Of course, most women wouldn't even know they were pregnant until well after that.

And how are they going to know it was after 7 weeks? They'd have to be able to figure out the exact date of conception, and again, good luck getting that information from the woman and/or her partner.

They don't owe court fees if they bring a bad case.

facepalm facepalm facepalm




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Dennis S
Date: April 10, 2022 10:01PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder?

Maybe. After 7 weeks of gestation.

(Should have included the "7 weeks" in my earlier post. Not every abortion will qualify for the $10 awards to stoolies.)

Of course, most women wouldn't even know they were pregnant until well after that.

And how are they going to know it was after 7 weeks? They'd have to be able to figure out the exact date of conception, and again, good luck getting that information from the woman and/or her partner.

They don't owe court fees if they bring a bad case.

So they can just take a free shot.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Acer
Date: April 10, 2022 10:16PM
Suing someone takes more than filling in a form and waiting for your check. Have to retain a lawyer, then your life is a string of court dates. Not to mention the media and special interest circus it will spawn for at least the first few attempts. Then you get to do it all over again for the appeals, especially for those first few cases until the case law gets the rule established or shot down. Even if someone else pays your legal fees and you still end up with 10K when it's over, your life will be ruined. Enjoy!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2022 10:21PM by Acer.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: PeterB
Date: April 10, 2022 10:33PM
Quote
Acer
Suing someone takes more than filling in a form and waiting for your check. Have to retain a lawyer, then your life is a string of court dates. Not to mention the media and special interest circus it will spawn for at least the first few attempts. Then you get to do it all over again for the appeals, especially for those first few cases until the case law gets the rule established or shot down. Even if someone else pays your legal fees and you still end up with 10K when it's over, your life will be ruined. Enjoy!

No doubt someone WILL do this though, and then eventually the law will go to the SC. Then it'll be interesting to see how Amy "The Handmaid" C-B will justify the incredible invasion of privacy and violation of HIPAA laws (as noted above) that this law seemingly requires.




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/10/2022 10:33PM by PeterB.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: April 10, 2022 11:09PM
Quote
Dennis S
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
PeterB
Wait, so any woman using an abortifacient is guilty of murder?

Maybe. After 7 weeks of gestation.

(Should have included the "7 weeks" in my earlier post. Not every abortion will qualify for the $10 awards to stoolies.)

Of course, most women wouldn't even know they were pregnant until well after that.

And how are they going to know it was after 7 weeks? They'd have to be able to figure out the exact date of conception, and again, good luck getting that information from the woman and/or her partner.

They don't owe court fees if they bring a bad case.

So they can just take a free shot.

I think they would be out at least the filing fee. (Assuming that no right-wing organizations reimbursed them.)

...The filing fee, and maybe some document-fees if you don't get them waived by claiming hardship/poverty. If you served the papers on the defendant in person, you wouldn't even have to pay for service.

From some Googling...

CLERK’S BASIC FILING FEE (NEW CIVIL SUITS)
Source: Government Code § 51.317(b)(1)
Amount: Depends on number of plaintiffs
(a) 10 or fewer plaintiffs..........................$50.00
(b) 11 to 25 plaintiffs ..............................$75.00
(c) 26 to 100 plaintiffs ..........................$100.00
(d) 101 to 500 plaintiffs ........................$125.00
(e) 501 to 1,000 plaintiffs .....................$150.00
(f) more than 1,000 plaintiffs ...............$200.00


...

...the court shall award:
(1) injunctive relief sufficient to prevent the
defendant from violating this subchapter or engaging in acts that
aid or abet violations of this subchapter;
(2) statutory damages in an amount of not less than
$10,000 for each abortion that the defendant performed or induced
in violation of this subchapter, and for each abortion performed or
induced in violation of this subchapter that the defendant aided or
abetted; and
(3) costs and attorney's fees.
(c) Notwithstanding Subsection (b), a court may not award
relief under this section in response to a violation of Subsection
(a)(1) or (2) if the defendant demonstrates that the defendant
previously paid the full amount of statutory damages under
Subsection (b)(2) in a previous action for that particular abortion
performed or induced in violation of this subchapter, or for the
particular conduct that aided or abetted an abortion performed or
induced in violation of this subchapter.



...

(i) Notwithstanding any other law, a court may not award
costs or attorney's fees under the Texas Rules of Civil Procedure or
any other rule adopted by the supreme court under Section 22.004,
Government Code, to a defendant in an action brought under this
section.




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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: April 11, 2022 01:02PM
I'm just waiting for the first woman to be arrested for having a miscarriage. Because 15-20% of all pregnancies end in a miscarriage. My beloved wife experienced two.

I do not understand the self hatred that allows Texan women to justify this law.
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Re: Texas woman charged with murder for “self-induced abortion”
Posted by: PeterB
Date: April 11, 2022 01:29PM
Quote
cbelt3
I'm just waiting for the first woman to be arrested for having a miscarriage. Because 15-20% of all pregnancies end in a miscarriage. My beloved wife experienced two.

I do not understand the self hatred that allows Texan women to justify this law.

I'm sorry to hear of you and your wife's miscarriages. Somehow I doubt that it is mostly Texan *women* who are justifying this law. (And/or the ones who are, are maybe using the "blame the victim" approach of, "well, if you decided to have sex and get pregnant, it's your own problem!")




Freya says, 'Hello from NOLA, baby!' (Laissez bon temps rouler!)
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