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“ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 03, 2022 09:40PM
‘ The company said it was legally prohibited from unilaterally imposing wage and benefit increases in stores where employees have unionized or will soon vote on unionization. It noted that it must bargain with a union over any wage or benefit changes.
But labor law experts said that it could be illegal to withhold wages and benefits from only unionized employees or employees voting on a union.

Matthew Bodie, a former lawyer for the labor board who teaches law at Saint Louis University, said the announced pay increases could unlawfully taint the so-called laboratory conditions that are supposed to prevail during a union election by giving employees an incentive not to unionize.

“If Starbucks said, ‘Drop the union campaign and you’ll get this wage increase and better benefits,’ that’d clearly be illegal,” Mr. Bodie said by email. “Hard to see how this is that much different in practice.” ‘


[www.nytimes.com]


Not that I spend much time in Starbucks, but it seems like it’s time for a boycott.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 03, 2022 09:53PM
Typical illegal union-busting stuff.
Fine the management creeps.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: graylocks
Date: May 03, 2022 10:10PM
You probably don't want to hear this but if I was still at Starbucks I would not be voting to unionize. I don't think it's necessary.

I am not anti-union. I've been a member of the musician's union for almost 30 years.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 03, 2022 10:16PM
Quote
graylocks
You probably don't want to hear this but if I was still at Starbucks I would not be voting to unionize. I don't think it's necessary.

I am not anti-union. I've been a member of the musician's union for almost 30 years.

I’m neither specifically for or against any Starbucks stores unionizing, but I do think management’s response is outrageous.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: mattkime
Date: May 03, 2022 10:20PM
Quote
graylocks
You probably don't want to hear this but if I was still at Starbucks I would not be voting to unionize. I don't think it's necessary.

I am not anti-union. I've been a member of the musician's union for almost 30 years.

Right, and there's no reason to vote if you're okay with the current elected officials.

Its best to be organized BEFORE its needed. It takes time and energy to organize. Best to be prepared. But also - if workers and management aren't far apart, why do they find the union threatening?



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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: bfd
Date: May 03, 2022 10:47PM
Quote
mattkime
But also - if workers and management aren't far apart, why do they find the union threatening?

… the notion that unions break complete control by a company? These places thrive on being able to hire and fire at will. It's not all about wages.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: graylocks
Date: May 03, 2022 10:48PM
Quote
mattkime
But also - if workers and management aren't far apart, why do they find the union threatening?

decades ago my mom worked at JFK where Skychefs, the catering subsidiary of American Airlines at the time, ran a restaurant. They unionized and it really F'd things up. Union really did nothing for the workers other than create a bigger riff between workers and management. To new employees who didn't know better the union reps bragged about the benefits the union had attained for them like flight privileges on American Airlines. Thing is - those benefits were in place BEFORE the union came on the scene. Total dues collecting BS. Really pissed my mom off.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 03, 2022 10:49PM
NYC unions are unlike unions anywhere else on earth.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: graylocks
Date: May 03, 2022 10:50PM
Quote
bfd
These places thrive on being able to hire and fire at will. It's not all about wages.

True but in Starbucks case not as relevant in practice. It's really hard to get fired at Starbucks. There are so many procedures in place you practically have to kill a customer before you are fired. I had 11 years of watching people who should have been fired NOT being fired.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Don C
Date: May 03, 2022 11:18PM
If I don't go to Starbucks anyway, how do I change my not going to a boycott?
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 03, 2022 11:40PM
Unions; a power so great, they can only be used for good or evil.



A tip of the hat to Firesign Theatre.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 04, 2022 01:01AM
Quote
graylocks
It's really hard to get fired at Starbucks.

So why do so many union organizers/sympathizers get fired? (you don't have to answer)

I have good and bad stories about unions, like when a former union steward that got promoted, 'forgot' to pay me overtime. It was an open shop, so I didn't need to join the union. Except I could not file a grievance over not getting paid unless I was in the union. She was essentially forcing me to join the union to get paid for my overtime. Eight years after I left, they voted out one union and a slightly bigger and slightly less corrupt one took over.

The site recently went on wildcat strike because the union got a cost-of-living raise and told everybody it was the best they could do even though the company is making record profits from higher crude/gas prices. Stock prices are up because the company is buying back shares to drive prices up so the CEO and board can get bigger bonuses.
facepalm



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 04, 2022 06:02AM
My family has been lifelong union - the UAW. My grandfather and father were both part of the 1937 Sitdown strike in Flint, MI that got the UAW recognized by GM. My brother was on the contract committee in the seventies. So I have union blood in me, although I have never joined one.

By the late 80s' even my brother said the union was going too far and would have to back off its demands or GM would go down the tubes. He was pretty nearly right.

A union has its place - it is there to protect employees from abuse. But that protection must be tempered with responsibility and greed can not become the driving force. Unions need to protect employees but they need to also have a reasonable method to separate employees who are not working or performing up to par.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 04, 2022 11:49AM
Union family, too. My father was IBEW which gave us a nice middle class life. He collects three pensions now and, at age 94, makes more than he did before he retired.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: testcase
Date: May 04, 2022 02:39PM
Quote
Steve G.
Typical illegal union-busting stuff.
Fine the management creeps.

I have to disagree here. Once employees VOTE to have a union, they TRANSFER virtually any and all power they had BEFORE they voted to unionize. Depending on state laws, it may or may not be required for ALL employees to join the "recognized bargaining agent" (union). Where I worked in NY, I could opt to NOT join the union BUT, I had to accept ALL the "benefits" the union "negotiated" as well as pay union dues (YES, that is / was effed up).

The simple fact is that the ones who benefit the MOST are the union bosses. The "working stiffs" get crumbs while the bosses get fat doing VERY little for the rank & file members.

NOTE: There ARE some businesses (usually privately held) that treat employees FAIRLY which in turn was STRONG encouragement for employees to act responsibly and give a fair day's work for a fair day's wage.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 04, 2022 02:48PM
Quote
testcase

The simple fact is that the ones who benefit the MOST are the union bosses. The "working stiffs" get crumbs while the bosses get fat doing VERY little for the rank & file members.

While that may be true of some unions, I don't think it's fair to generalize that conclusion to all unions. It certainly wasn't the case of the teacher's union I belonged to.



e pluribus unum
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: May 04, 2022 04:56PM
I can understand the desire to unionize from the perspective of a Starbucks worker who treats the job as a FT endeavor, but it's going to make it unreasonably difficult for those who want to use it as a PT and side gig.

But now, around here, there are 9-employee coffee shops where the workers are trying to unionize. That's ridiculous. And of course, if you are pro union, you have to support these efforts, too.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/04/2022 04:56PM by mrbigstuff.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: btfc
Date: May 04, 2022 07:31PM
Unions were badly needed when they first arose, but over time many became bloated and corrupt, and many of the issues that they arose to address became law.

It seems like there is a role for them in today’s world.

Uber and Lyft perhaps? Delivery workers?

Not all unions are created equal.

It’s possible to build an effective and transparent model.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: August West
Date: May 04, 2022 07:39PM
I'm for unionization.



“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: vision63
Date: May 04, 2022 08:21PM
Quote
Speedy
Union family, too. My father was IBEW which gave us a nice middle class life. He collects three pensions now and, at age 94, makes more than he did before he retired.

I wish I was his son too.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 04, 2022 11:30PM
Unions are needed now more than ever as wealth moves towards fewer and fewer people and even bigger corporations. The right to go broke is in the Constitution, or at least bankruptcy. These idiots in places where anti-unionism is drummed into them from birth may never vote in a union and will suffer for it. My father may have three pensions but his son does not because my union membership was all too brief. I depend on my wife’s retirement and my social security. Plus some lucky investing.

Quote
vision63
Quote
Speedy
Union family, too. My father was IBEW which gave us a nice middle class life. He collects three pensions now and, at age 94, makes more than he did before he retired.

I wish I was his son too.

We’re plenty proud of him. He’s stooped over from years of manual labor but his mind is as sharp as ever.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: “ Starbucks plans wage increases that won’t apply to unionized workers “
Posted by: vision63
Date: May 04, 2022 11:56PM
Quote
Speedy
Unions are needed now more than ever as wealth moves towards fewer and fewer people and even bigger corporations. The right to go broke is in the Constitution, or at least bankruptcy. These idiots in places where anti-unionism is drummed into them from birth may never vote in a union and will suffer for it. My father may have three pensions but his son does not because my union membership was all too brief. I depend on my wife’s retirement and my social security. Plus some lucky investing.

Quote
vision63
Quote
Speedy
Union family, too. My father was IBEW which gave us a nice middle class life. He collects three pensions now and, at age 94, makes more than he did before he retired.

I wish I was his son too.

We’re plenty proud of him. He’s stooped over from years of manual labor but his mind is as sharp as ever.

He sounds like quite a man. I'm proud of him too.
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