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Worth reading
Posted by: vicrock
Date: May 26, 2022 03:40PM
In reaction to yesterday's tragedy, without being political or talking about the cause - this article has points that could be implemented in every school in this country at low cost and done with exceptional speed.
Worth a read:

[www.westernjournal.com]
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 26, 2022 03:42PM
try the other side for this
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: hal
Date: May 26, 2022 03:51PM
without being political, let me drop this load of rightwing garbage in your lap :-)
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: May 26, 2022 03:59PM
Aw man. my first response got lost in the move to the other side.

Simply, schools are not prisons, and kids and teachers are not prisoners. Teachers are also not prison guards.

Besides, once we fortify the schools, what is next? Shopping malls? Churches? Restaurants? Movie theaters? Where does it stop? All so some jerks can feel like they are a hero with all of the guns they own?

This "single entrance" argument is simply being pushed out into the media widely as a distraction. It's time to get real about how guns are killing America right now.

Block me, ban me, I don't give a %$#@. This is the time to say I am as mad as hell and I am not going to let people sweep gun violence under the rug.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: vicrock
Date: May 26, 2022 04:00PM
Sorry if people think this is political - given the inability of our politicians to do anything in a timely manner, I thought that the 3 points that have the potential to secure our schools had merit.

Perhaps the article has a political slant - and if you perceive it that way, so be it - I was hoping for discussion of the possible implementation of relatively inexpensive, non-political ways to secure safety of children.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 26, 2022 04:02PM
I think anyone with a semi-automatic rifle, a hand gun and 375 rounds of ammo can surmount any of the security suggestions I've seen.

Birthday gifts make it extra-special
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Markintosh
Date: May 26, 2022 04:03PM
First off, in California, huge parts of just about every school are in individual portable classrooms. Each has a separate external only entrance. The only way to protect that is to wall in the whole campus like a prison, complete with razor wire and guard towers.

"Single entrance" is not a simple solution.



“Live your life, love your life, don’t regret…live, learn and move forward positively.” – CR Johnson
Loving life in Lake Tahoe, CA
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: hal
Date: May 26, 2022 04:17PM
Quote
Markintosh
First off, in California, huge parts of just about every school are in individual portable classrooms. Each has a separate external only entrance. The only way to protect that is to wall in the whole campus like a prison, complete with razor wire and guard towers.

"Single entrance" is not a simple solution.

not to mention the obvious issue - no fire dept is gonna allow 100s of kids to gather in a building with one single exit.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 26, 2022 04:21PM
That piece offered nothing. (If knives are so deadly, then lets just let all the gun owners trade in their guns for knives! They should be more than sufficient to defend our liberty if they are that much more effective at killing than guns!)

"The founders adopted the Second Amendment for a reason, and it’s not about hunting, as Biden suggested Tuesday. It’s about self-protection and the preservation of liberty."

Well, there are 21 fewer people who have liberty today in the nation with twice as many guns per capita as the next nation (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country)
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 26, 2022 04:35PM
Quote
Markintosh

Besides, once we fortify the schools, what is next? Shopping malls? Churches? Restaurants? Movie theaters? Where does it stop?

Many synagogues have adopted guards after the slaughter in Pittsburgh.
The perpetrator killed eleven people and wounded six, including several Holocaust survivors. It was the deadliest attack ever on the Jewish community in the United States.

(also see 'Charlottesville Unite the Right Rally'. They chanted the same things motivating this week's massacre)
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Ted King
Date: May 26, 2022 04:35PM
Quote
Markintosh
First off, in California, huge parts of just about every school are in individual portable classrooms. Each has a separate external only entrance. The only way to protect that is to wall in the whole campus like a prison, complete with razor wire and guard towers.

"Single entrance" is not a simple solution.

Yeah, this.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 26, 2022 04:49PM
Quote
Steve G.
Many synagogues have adopted guards after the slaughter in Pittsburgh.

Of course a determined mass shooter just approaches the guard, shoots him, then proceeds into the temple.

If the mass shooter intends to commit suicide anyway (and many do), then a guard (or more) doesn't represent a viable deterrence.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 26, 2022 05:26PM
Quote
vicrock
In reaction to yesterday's tragedy, without being political or talking about the cause - this article has points that could be implemented in every school in this country at low cost and done with exceptional speed.
Worth a read:

[www.westernjournal.com]

TLDR:
If schools were locked down like Fort Knox and protected by dozens of armed guards, there would be fewer student-shootings.



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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: davester
Date: May 26, 2022 05:40PM
Quote
vicrock
...without being political...

and then posts a blatantly political article.

Are you out of your effing mind?



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Fritz
Date: May 26, 2022 05:53PM
let's face it, we need more guns.



hold my beer



!#$@@$#!

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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 26, 2022 05:58PM
Western Journal

“The Western Journal, previously known as Western Journalism, is an American conservative news and politics website based in Phoenix, Arizona. It was founded by political consultant Floyd Brown in 2008.”

“‘…a torrent of sensationalized, misleading, or entirely made-up stories, often aimed at Muslims and immigrants.’ Because of negative rulings by fact-checking sites and user trust surveys, Western Journalism was blacklisted by Google and Apple News, and by 2017 its Facebook traffic declined to near zero.”

“Western Journalism founder Floyd Brown also founded the Political Action Committee Citizens United and served as executive director of the Young America's Foundation.”
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 26, 2022 06:44PM
Let's ask the ghosts of the victims of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire how they feel about single-point-of-entry.



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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Racer X
Date: May 26, 2022 09:10PM
Quote
$tevie
Let's ask the ghosts of the victims of the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory fire how they feel about single-point-of-entry.

Single point of entry isn't the issue. It's single exit that is.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: jonny
Date: May 26, 2022 11:21PM
Every exit is an entry if it doesn’t latch.
And we all know how often that happens.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Sam3
Date: May 27, 2022 06:25AM
Our school system for the most part already does this, and the schools that don't have a secured entrance are having their entrances redone. Also, all exits in the schools are latched to only allow exit. Sure they can be propped open, and they are when there is the Halloween parade in the one elementary school, but 99% of the time the doors closed and locked. Even during recess time.

Our high school has a resource officer, but that's the only school, and who's to say that in a crisis situation the resource officer would do anything. Look at the Uvalde situation, the cops stood around and did nothing.

The school district runs active shooter drills as well.

Would this stop a shooter? It may slow them down, but a determined person could still wreck havoc and take lives. Our schools are not air conditioned, on hot days I've seen windows open with fans in them. A determined shooter would just need to hop in through the window and start blasting away.

Again, it all goes back to gun availability. Universal background checks, mandatory waiting periods, age restrictions (minimum 21 unless active military), etc.



The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: May 27, 2022 08:58AM
Quote
Sam3
Universal background checks, mandatory waiting periods, age restrictions (minimum 21 unless active military), etc.

How about red flag laws?

Oh, wait. We can't do that because some angry woman could falsely accuse her spouse/boyfriend of domestic abuse.

Then that poor man would be defenseless against government tyranny!

So we need to err on the side of caution.

The side that protects some rando against government tyranny, not the side that protects civilians from being shot in stores/schools/synagogues/churches/movie theaters/restaurants/army bases/navy bases/etc.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: jonny
Date: May 27, 2022 10:22AM
Many of these shooters have a history of domestic violence. Red flag laws could have nipped several of them in the bud.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 27, 2022 10:54AM
Quote
jonny
Many of these shooters have a history of domestic violence. Red flag laws could have nipped several of them in the bud.

Not necessarily this one. The poor kid probably just needed a hamburger and compassionate hug from a good Christian cop.

Red-flagging may stop a handful, but it won't stop outraged righteous citizens from grabbing a gun and blowing away their neighbors and nearby strangers.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: May 27, 2022 12:07PM
I looked at the article and its simply a rehash of all the bad arguments in favor of unrestricted gun ownership. It could be used in a classroom as a method of teaching logical fallacies. You can find a long list of them on Skeptical Raptor
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: May 28, 2022 06:34AM
Quote
Ca Bob
I looked at the article and its simply a rehash of all the bad arguments in favor of unrestricted gun ownership. It could be used in a classroom as a method of teaching logical fallacies. You can find a long list of them on Skeptical Raptor

Controlled entry matters.

Which means a single entrance with multiple exits, and those exits electronically monitored so a central station knows if they've been propped open.

It's expensive enough to retrofit that most schools will simply throw up their hands & won't spend the money to implement it.

So anyone will continue to be able simply to walk into the school via any door that accesses the outside.

Nor will most bother to lock classrooms while classes are in session, so anyone who gets inside will be able to walk into any classroom as well.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 06:35AM by Bill in NC.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 28, 2022 10:16AM
It's so American to fix the problem by turning our schools into prisons. Don't forget to do the supermarkets, churches, synagogs, street fairs, and nightclubs next.
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Re: Worth reading
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 28, 2022 10:32AM
Quote
Acer
It's so American to fix the problem by turning our schools into prisons. Don't forget to do the supermarkets, churches, synagogs, street fairs, and nightclubs next.

...and theaters, and sports stadiums, and concerts, and amusement parks, and public beaches, and bars, and restaurants, and race tracks, and DMV offices, and department stores, and...
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