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"Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 28, 2022 11:53AM
Quote

When politicians talk about civility and public discourse, what they’re really saying is that they would prefer for people to remain silent in the face of injustice. They want marginalized people to accept that the conditions of oppression are unalterable facts of life. They want to luxuriate in the power they hold, where they never have to compromise, never have to confront their consciences or lack thereof, never have to face the consequences of their inaction.
...
When asked for solutions, Republicans talk about arming teachers and training them to defend their classrooms. We hear about how good guys with guns will valiantly stop mass shootings, even though there have been good guys with guns at several mass shootings and they have not prevented these tragedies.

These politicians offer platitudes and prayers and Bible verses. But they do not care to do what must be done to stop the next gun massacre or the average of 321 people shot a day in the United States — including 42 murders and 65 suicides. It is critical that we state this truth clearly and repeatedly and loudly. That we don’t let them hide behind empty rhetoric. That they know we see through their lies. They must know that we know who they truly are.

Gifted link: [www.nytimes.com]



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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 12:00PM
Well said. I'm a fan of Roxanne Gay. Smart lady, can also be a very funny writer. Nothing to be funny about here, she says what needs to be heard.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 12:01PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: chopper
Date: May 28, 2022 12:25PM
Also, don't prop the security door open. Also, don't lie about your actions while kids were dying.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 12:29PM
Quote
chopper
Also, don't prop the security door open. Also, don't lie about your actions while kids were dying.

Also, don't let 18 year olds purchase military style assault weapons and unlimited ammunition with large capacity magazines
No civilian needs that for any purpose.

Nobody better DARE try to lay blame on the teacher who went outside briefly. It is shameful and disgusting to even say that.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 28, 2022 12:39PM
"Don't Prop a door open." It was a school. This is America. I should be able to prop the damn door open.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 12:39PM by Acer.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 28, 2022 12:49PM
Quote
chopper
Also, don't prop the security door open. Also, don't lie about your actions while kids were dying.

Blame anything but gun availability is default right wing mantra.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: gabester
Date: May 28, 2022 12:51PM
Yeah the whataboutism of "the door was propped!" is just awful. So if the door had properly locked, the whackadoodle gun mass murderer would have just gone home? Gone to the next school hoping to find a door propped open?

Come up with real solutions. Not platitudes. Not hemming and hawing about the fake "freedom" for individuals to own unlimited firearms. Definitely not your useless hopes and prayers. Either you're not doing it right - since these mass gun murders keep happening - or it's not going to solve anything.



g=
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 01:19PM
I wouldn't say it's "whataboutism"...some people are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time...for some of us, it is possible to discuss multiple facets of an issue simultaneously as well. Others, apparently, not so much.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 01:50PM
Quote
SDGuy
I wouldn't say it's "whataboutism"...some people are capable of walking and chewing gum at the same time...for some of us, it is possible to discuss multiple facets of an issue simultaneously as well. Others, apparently, not so much.

That is not what "whataboutism" means. It refers to bringing up a tangent when you want to divert attention away from something else. Something that might shine an uncomfortable light.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 02:20PM
? - how is bringing up the point that school personnel should secure entry points (e.g. don't prop open a door), especially if he or she hears gunfire nearby, a tangent?

There are multiple facets that are germane to this discussion:
- the shooter and his access to weapons
- what school personnel should do in this kind of situation
- what responding folks (Law Enforcement as well as civilians) should do in this kind of situation
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 02:36PM
Things that gunners want to blame mass shootings on, instead of guns:
Video games
Apps
Rap music
Trench coats
Hoodies
Loose pants
Not enough praying
Divorce
Single moms
Schools
Teachers
Families
Mental health
Liberals
The victims themselves
And new one: doors



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 02:37PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 02:53PM
As I said - apparently, some of us are capable of discussing multiple facets of a situation, others, not so much.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 03:00PM
Quote
SDGuy
As I said - apparently, some of us are capable of discussing multiple facets of a situation, others, not so much.

You have yet to explain why this teacher, a victim of this shooter just like every other person at the school that day, should be part of the larger discussion on ending mass shootings.

Do you really think it was her role to stop him? I've heard the gunner talking points on this since the second night: it's the doors! Harden the targets!


It's BS!
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 03:08PM
After 30 years as a gun safety advocate, with some nice wins along the way, I have heard it all.

It is 100% necessary to maintain a laser focus on the heart of the problem, and that is and remains easy access to and little accountability around extremely dangerous firearms.

The rest is smoke.

Schools in the US have spent hundreds of millions on security, yet the carnage continues
Those measures DO NOT WORK.

We know what works. Control the weapons of death. Other countries have done it with excellent results
So can we.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 03:16PM
No - I don't believe she was responsible for stopping the shooter, but - yes, I believe that school personnel should be trained to "harden the target"; to the point where it should be second-nature and they shouldn't have to think about what the correct response should be - e.g. if you hear gunfire near by outside, close the door and don't prop it open.

(full disclosure - until I retired last Fall, I was a Federal employee - and EVERYONE working at my location - thousands of folks - had to go through annual training on what to do in an "Active Shooter" situation)

Now - I don't think this is the ONLY aspect of this discussion - the shooter's access to weapons is obviously the main topic, but there are other very relevant discussion points as well, given how THIS particular instance played out.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: davemchine
Date: May 28, 2022 03:17PM
SDguy is correct. There are multiple problems and we can discuss each. The school should have been secured if that was the rule. The police should have followed their training. These two things can be done better with education and further training. How to prevent mental illness and violence are not so easy to discuss or fix. I feel pain for those parents and what they are going through. It’s unimaginable.



Ukulele music I couldn't find anywhere else.
[colquhoun.info]
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 28, 2022 03:21PM
..

I deleted my impolite post. Sincere apologies to dave.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 05:45PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 28, 2022 03:23PM
UK, Canada, Australia and European nations are not wandering around wondering how to "harden" targets. Maybe because they've found a way to control the underlying problem?
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 03:34PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
davemchine
SDguy is correct. There are multiple problems and we can discuss each. The school should have been secured if that was the rule. The police should have followed their training. These two things can be done better with education and further training. How to prevent mental illness and violence are not so easy to discuss or fix. I feel pain for those parents and what they are going through. It’s unimaginable.

Ok, so not the gun.

I see.

Talk about that all you want, but please get clear out of the way of adults who actually know what would help.

? as I mentioned more than once - it is possible to walk and chew gum at the same time. I don't think anyone is saying access to firearms is not a problem (well - maybe some are, but not me).

But in addition to that, for THIS particular situation, there are definitely some lessons to be learned, so that maybe in a future occurrence fewer mistakes will be made. Ignoring those mistakes does no good.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 28, 2022 04:49PM
Quote
SDGuy
? - how is bringing up the point that school personnel should secure entry points (e.g. don't prop open a door), especially if he or she hears gunfire nearby, a tangent?

Not only is it a wholly inappropriate tangent, but you first have to ignore all of the safety issues related to locking doors and the psychological trauma inflicted on children when you treat them like defacto criminals and you're promoting the dumb idea that a determined gunman would be dissuaded by a locked door in order to make that dumb tangent.







Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 04:52PM by Tiangou.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: May 28, 2022 05:00PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Things that gunners want to blame mass shootings on, instead of guns:
Video games
Apps
Rap music
Trench coats
Hoodies
Loose pants
Not enough praying
Divorce
Single moms
Schools
Teachers
Families
Mental health
Liberals
The victims themselves
And new one: doors

They forgot one: moron gun-crazed Republicans
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 05:19PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
SDGuy
? - how is bringing up the point that school personnel should secure entry points (e.g. don't prop open a door), especially if he or she hears gunfire nearby, a tangent?

Not only is it a wholly inappropriate tangent, but you first have to ignore all of the safety issues related to locking doors and the psychological trauma inflicted on children when you treat them like defacto criminals and you're promoting the dumb idea that a determined gunman would be dissuaded by a locked door in order to make that dumb tangent.

"wholly inappropriate"? - how is discussing how to react in an Active Shooter situation a tangent to a discussion about...wait for it...a School Shooting (with, by definition, an Active Shooter)?

I assume you are also aware that there are "Exit-only" types of doors - you've probably even seen them, like in paid parking garages and movie theatres; I assume Uvalde probably already had that type of door installed, else the teacher wouldn't have had a reason to prop it open - I would actually say that YOU are purposely trying to go off on a tangent by bringing up the Triangle Shirtwaist fire (where people were locked in, not locked out of the building).
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 28, 2022 05:29PM
Quote
SDGuy
Noise. Strawman. False narrative. Distraction-fallacies.



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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: JoeH
Date: May 28, 2022 05:37PM
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
SDGuy
? - how is bringing up the point that school personnel should secure entry points (e.g. don't prop open a door), especially if he or she hears gunfire nearby, a tangent?

Not only is it a wholly inappropriate tangent, but you first have to ignore all of the safety issues related to locking doors and the psychological trauma inflicted on children when you treat them like defacto criminals and you're promoting the dumb idea that a determined gunman would be dissuaded by a locked door in order to make that dumb tangent.

"wholly inappropriate"? - how is discussing how to react in an Active Shooter situation a tangent to a discussion about...wait for it...a School Shooting (with, by definition, an Active Shooter)?

I assume you are also aware that there are "Exit-only" types of doors - you've probably even seen them, like in paid parking garages and movie theatres; I assume Uvalde probably already had that type of door installed, else the teacher wouldn't have had a reason to prop it open - I would actually say that YOU are purposely trying to go off on a tangent by bringing up the Triangle Shirtwaist fire (where people were locked in, not locked out of the building).

Whole bunch of noise missing the point. The door may have been temporarily propped open to move something in or out before the shooting started, and missed in getting children to safer locations once the shooting started. He had been taking potshots into the school for about 20 minutes before entering.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 28, 2022 05:50PM
First of all I brought up the Triangle fire, not Lemon.

Second of all IF you are going to believe the @#$%& officials who have told one lie after another, and there really was a door propped open, these same officials said it was propped open BEFORE the shooting started. So if you are going all in on their version, ain't nobody propped no door open after guns were being fired.



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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 05:57PM
Quote
JoeH
...Whole bunch of noise missing the point...

I think it may help if you, or someone else participating on this thread describes EXACTLY what "the point" is, then, from your point-of-view.

I was under the impression that the topic of this discussion was how to prevent future tragedies, which includes multiple facets; one of which would be how to respond in such a situation.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 28, 2022 06:10PM
Actually, the OP was civility and how we can't cling to it and expect any change.

This is not the How To Prevent Shootings Thread you are looking for.



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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 06:14PM
Quote
$tevie
Actually, the OP was civility and how we can't cling to it and expect any change.

This is not the How To Prevent Shootings Thread you are looking for.

Ah my mistake - didn't realize this thread was about not having civility - suddenly the other responses I've seen here make sense.

In that vein, then...your Mother was a Hamster, and your Father smelt of Elderberries!!
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: May 28, 2022 07:07PM
The point chopper and SD refer isn’t irrelevant to this specific situation. However, it’s only relevance is that humans are human and human error will occur at tragically bad times.

It is also wholly irrelevant to any incredibly serious discussion that dwarfs fine tooth combing through any single tragedy.

Personally, if mentioned at all, I would only note my feelings of sorrow for anyone who would have to carry the weight of such an error.



National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
As of July 16, 2022, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is now available by simply dialing 988. The previous number, 1-800-273-8255, will remain active.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 08:32PM
Quote
Blankity Blank
...It is also wholly irrelevant to any incredibly serious discussion...

Your Mother was a Hamster and your Father smelt of Elderberries
"Lock the Door"
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 28, 2022 09:19PM
I think if the door had been closed and all the windows were bulletproof, the gunner would have had a hard time gaining entrance, especially since he had just run his easy locked door bypass device into the ditch.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: August West
Date: May 28, 2022 10:37PM
Quote
SDGuy
Ah my mistake...

What's that they say about blind squirrels and stopped clocks?



“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 28, 2022 11:07PM
Quote
August West
Quote
SDGuy
Ah my mistake...

What's that they say about blind squirrels and stopped clocks?

To be fair, having a thread where the intent is to not be civil is not a normal occurrence...oh, to stay on topic: you're a poopy-head



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/28/2022 11:08PM by SDGuy.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 28, 2022 11:37PM
Civility will always be a regrettable victim when results fail. We demand answers that don’t involve turning schools, Wal-Marts, office spaces, and homes into prisons.

That’s what the linked article means. There are always a million things that might help, but very few are credible priorities. Why waste more time?
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 29, 2022 08:29AM
Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 29, 2022 08:51AM
Quote
SDGuy
"irrelevant?"...
"A school may not be able to keep out a determined gunman, who may shoot out windows to gain entry, but...it's important to always have the doors locked "because what it does is it creates a time barrier." ... the best practice "is to have all exterior perimeter doors locked and have a single point of entry with someone monitoring that entrance point before you admit someone into the school." "
- Kathy Martinez-Prather, director of the Texas School Safety Center

oh...to keep on topic - yo momma...and you are stinky

Time barrier? What a joke. How much time would it take for the gunner to have backed his truck through the front entrance, pull ahead 15 feet, get out and start firing? The schools around here have entrances big enough to park the truck inside after you smashed the doors open. In a number of them you could drive through the doors and straight down the hallway.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 29, 2022 09:09AM
I want to say one word to you...just one word...Bollards

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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 29, 2022 09:19AM
What is this Martinez-Prather woman smoking?

It doesn't appear that she has ever been to an elementary school or looked at Texas school staff budgets.

Schools have had beefed up security for decades at enormous cost to taxpayers and at the expense of not funding vital educational needs. And oh, it has not stopped school shootings, which continue unabated because of easy access to military style assault weapons.

Which is the thing that kills children and their teachers. Not unlocked doors. My new slogan is doors don't kill children, but assault weapons sure do.
Hey, let's do something about THAT.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2022 09:20AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 29, 2022 10:48AM
Quote
Lemon Drop
What is this Martinez-Prather woman smoking...doors don't kill children, but assault weapons sure do.
Hey, let's do something about THAT.

? it is possible to do both simultaneously (work on controlling who has access to weapons as well as look to what Best Practices people should be following);
doing one does not preclude doing the other.

If you feel the Texas School Safety Center (the "clearinghouse for the dissemination of safety and security information..for K-12 schools and junior colleges throughout the state of Texas") could use some feedback, they have a "Contact Us" page where you can directly provide them with suggestions.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 29, 2022 11:11AM
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
Lemon Drop
What is this Martinez-Prather woman smoking...doors don't kill children, but assault weapons sure do.
Hey, let's do something about THAT.

? it is possible to do both simultaneously (work on controlling who has access to weapons as well as look to what Best Practices people should be following);
doing one does not preclude doing the other.

If you feel the Texas School Safety Center (the "clearinghouse for the dissemination of safety and security information..for K-12 schools and junior colleges throughout the state of Texas") could use some feedback, they have a "Contact Us" page where you can directly provide them with suggestions.

You keep missing the point, I think quite deliberately.

Elementary schools ALREADY use monitored single entrances for adult visitors. We have been "looking at best practices" nonstop since Columbine, it is nonsense, extremely wasteful.
Proven not to work. JAMA had a study that showed schools with armed officers were 3 times more likely to have shootings than those without. But we keep doing that stuff!

Meanwhile, the gun laws just get slacker and slacker in the majority of states.
That is why we need laser focus on that. The rest is @#$%&.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2022 11:11AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 29, 2022 01:59PM
Every school I visit for my job as a nature educator has single-entrance, buzzed-in entry, and has since at least the mid 2000s. City, suburb, rural, they all have it.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 29, 2022 02:38PM
Quote
Acer
Every school I visit for my job as a nature educator has single-entrance, buzzed-in entry, and has since at least the mid 2000s. City, suburb, rural, they all have it.
At the risk of being mocked for worrying about it, what happens if there is a fire? Can the doors be pushed open from the inside? And if so, what prevents them being pushed open from the inside by, say, a second student who is in on the attack? Or whatever, you see my point.

Honestly curious, because I'm so old we didn't have to live in fear during our classes.



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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 29, 2022 02:44PM
I think people have forgotten about Sandy Hook. That school had just installed a new single entry system, you had to be buzzed in. The shooter just used his weapon to break the glass, and walked in.

We cannot "securitize " our way out of this mess.

Another point, even the Secret Service and NRA can't get it right. At their convention this weekend, just before Trump spoke, a reporter from LA, Lauren Windsor, and a friend walked into an unlocked side door, no checks, past an officer and into the front reserved seat section.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: hal
Date: May 29, 2022 02:45PM
Quote
$tevie
Honestly curious, because I'm so old we didn't have to live in fear during our classes.

no 'duck & cover' drills in your school? At my age (born in 61) we had those drills, but there was no fear involved. At least I never believed there would be an attack. IT was just a part of the routine.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 29, 2022 03:43PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Acer
Every school I visit for my job as a nature educator has single-entrance, buzzed-in entry, and has since at least the mid 2000s. City, suburb, rural, they all have it.
At the risk of being mocked for worrying about it, what happens if there is a fire? Can the doors be pushed open from the inside? And if so, what prevents them being pushed open from the inside by, say, a second student who is in on the attack? Or whatever, you see my point.

Honestly curious, because I'm so old we didn't have to live in fear during our classes.

Single entrance does not mean single exit. Emergency exit doors only open from the inside and often have a breach alarm. My school also had reinforced glass, it was not bullet proof but simply shooting it or hitting with an axe would not cause it to break open. However there were still issues - the front desk gets busy and somebody just gets buzzed in with no real vetting, or students open a door to let someone in.

Realistically there is no way to 100% secure a building 100% of the time since you cannot account for the human factor.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: May 29, 2022 04:16PM
Quote

Honestly curious, because I'm so old we didn't have to live in fear during our classes.

Hmmm…
- “Duck-and-cover” in the 50s
- “Bomb in the building” phone calls in the 60s

Not remotely like what’s happening now, but there were “issues” in previous decades.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2022 04:17PM by DeusxMac.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: hal
Date: May 29, 2022 04:27PM
an interesting aspect of the Jan 6 insurrection was that when it was realized that they were actually in a dangerous situation, most people didn't have any idea what to do, but the young staffers that grew up with mass shooting drills in school often took charge of small groups - they had the training...

re: "“Duck-and-cover” in the 50s" - also the 60s - I wasn't alive in the 50s, but I remember duck & cover drills.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 29, 2022 04:29PM
Duck & Cover was never a big thing during my elementary years of 1950 to '58. I may have heard of it 2 or 3 times but never in an atmosphere the way grade school kids today are inundated with. (purposely ended a sentence with a preposition - take that Sister Emmanuel!)
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: deckeda
Date: May 29, 2022 04:58PM
Every school my kids have been in has locked front doors with a buzzer. I’ve never not been buzzed in. How do they know I’m not there to mow everyone down?

The locked doors are worthless and pointless. It’s the kind of “solution” put together by the crowd who lacks the ability to think past Step 1 of any suggestion. Results and safety don’t matter to Republicans. They just don’t.
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Re: "Don’t Talk to Me About ‘Civility.’ On Tuesday Morning Those Children Were Alive."
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 29, 2022 05:06PM
All the schools I posted about have multiple fire doors.
But every door and every window is a potential point of failure.

Remember the maxim: Locks are for honest people.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/29/2022 05:07PM by Acer.
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