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Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 31, 2022 04:43PM
This woman is a hero who proactively tried to protect children. . The members of Gun Nut Nation who assigned blame to her really need to apologize. This woman's life has been threatened.


"The Robb Elementary School teacher who propped open an exterior door that law enforcement said a gunman used to get inside and kill 19 students and two teachers had closed the door but it did not lock, state police said Tuesday.

Investigators initially said the teacher had propped the door open with a rock and did not remove it before the gunman entered the school in Uvalde, Texas, on May 24. Investigators have now determined that the teacher, who has not been identified, removed the rock and closed the door when she realized there was a shooter on campus but that it did not lock, said Travis Considine, chief communications officer for the Texas Department of Public Safety.

Considine said the teacher initially propped the door open but ran back inside to get her phone and call 911 when the shooter crashed his truck.

“She came back out while on her phone, she heard someone yell, ‘He has a gun!’ she saw him jump the fence and that he had a gun, so she ran back inside,” removing the rock when she did, Considine said.

He continued: “We did verify she closed the door. The door did not lock. We know that much and now investigators are looking into why it did not lock.”

San Antonio attorney Don Flanery told the San Antonio Express-News that the Robb Elementary School employee, whom he’s not naming, closed the door shut after realizing that a gunman was on the loose.

“She saw the wreck,” Flanary told the newspaper. “She ran back inside to get her phone to report the accident. She came back out while on the phone with 911. The men at the funeral home yelled, ‘He has a gun!’ She saw him jump the fence, and he had a gun so she ran back inside.

“She kicked the rock away when she went back in. She remembers pulling the door closed while telling 911 that he was shooting. She thought the door would lock because that door is always supposed to be locked.”

[www.nbcdfw.com]
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: May 31, 2022 04:59PM
Wait. Wait. Wait.

She knew school doors should locked. She KNEW it.

Yet she didn’t have the common sense and professional pride, let alone basic love for her students, to acquire locksmithing skills and do daily checks for functionality of all locks in the quadrant of the school where her classroom is? We can only whine about ‘simple human error’ so far. People have to at least try.



National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
As of July 16, 2022, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is now available by simply dialing 988. The previous number, 1-800-273-8255, will remain active.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 31, 2022 05:06PM
ABC is reporting that Uvalde police and school district are no longer cooperating with the state and federal investigations into the response.

No doubt lawyers for those orgs are saying.. yeah this is bad.. stop talking.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: May 31, 2022 05:27PM
Is there anything police reported that wasn't a lie?



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Acer
Date: May 31, 2022 05:31PM
Oh, well, so much for the door red herring. Any word confirming the rumor the teacher was a trans illegal alien democrat donor?
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 31, 2022 05:32PM
Quote
Ombligo
Is there anything police reported that wasn't a lie?

The dead children

They had that one right
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 31, 2022 05:33PM
Quote
Acer
Oh, well, so much for the door red herring. Any word confirming the rumor the teacher was a trans illegal alien democrat donor?

Wait isn't that the shooter? Marjorie Taylor Greene told me, must be true.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: May 31, 2022 05:47PM
Quote
Ombligo
Is there anything police reported that wasn't a lie?
Evidently not.
Forget any investigation. Fire everyone in that department, and their bosses, and start anew. These guys are going to spend their days covering things up instead of working.



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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: May 31, 2022 06:00PM
Quote
Ombligo
Is there anything police reported that wasn't a lie?

At this point, I am tossing all of my former opinions on this event, given that they were based on wrong information.

I think I'll wait for the official report(s) (from some organization other than the local Police, along with whatever the documented evidence is) to be released before forming an opinion. Anything other than that is hearsay, as far as I am concerned. The locals have shown themselves to have no qualms over putting out misinformation, so who knows what the actual truth is at this point (other than that there are dead victims).



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/31/2022 06:01PM by SDGuy.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 31, 2022 06:18PM
By the time the press vets initial police reports the story has moved to page 6 where few will see or remember it.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 31, 2022 06:18PM
Quote
RgrF
By the time the press vets initial police reports the story has moved to page 6 where few will see or remember it.

Not this time.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Speedy
Date: May 31, 2022 06:22PM
I’ll withhold judgment about responsibility until after the bodycam video is released. Until then, the teacher was a trans illegal alien democrat donor who let the gunner in.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: May 31, 2022 06:25PM
Quote
Speedy
I’ll withhold judgment about responsibility until after the bodycam video is released. Until then, the teacher was a trans illegal alien democrat donor who let the gunner in.

Ok. But she turned off her bodycam when she went out to the car to get the cupcakes she got for the kids because she ate one herself and didn't want it on video.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: May 31, 2022 07:06PM
I thought it was the shooter that was a trans illegal alien democrat donor...

Both the school district and the police department have stopped cooperating with investigations.



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: May 31, 2022 07:29PM
Now it's the janitor's fault for not lubricating all of the hinges and locks. He probably played violent video games and smoked dope.



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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: May 31, 2022 07:33PM
After what transpired even the dumbest night school law grad would tell them to shut up. Leave it to us lawyers to save your assorted toches.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: steve...
Date: May 31, 2022 09:40PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
ABC is reporting that Uvalde police and school district are no longer cooperating with the state and federal investigations into the response.

Heard on the News that the School District Police Chief Arredondo has been silently sworn in as a Uvalde City Council member by the Republican Mayor (he's the one that called Beto a sick son of a bitch for confronting the TX governor).

Meanwhile, the Texas Department of Public Safety said Tuesday that Arredondo has not responded to a request for a follow-up interview with the Texas Rangers, who are investigating the massacre.

CNN





Northern California Coast
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: June 01, 2022 12:15AM
The NYT podcast, “The Daily”, reports that there was more than a little frustration amongst the officers in the school at the order to hold back. But they held to the chain of command.



National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
As of July 16, 2022, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is now available by simply dialing 988. The previous number, 1-800-273-8255, will remain active.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Mr645
Date: June 01, 2022 05:59AM
Why is the door even a concern, Joe Biden is opposed to locked doors, improved security and safety for school children. If we just get rid of AR-15 rifles no more kids will get killed
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 01, 2022 06:01AM
Quote
Mr645
Why is the door even a concern, Joe Biden is opposed to locked doors, improved security and safety for school children. If we just get rid of AR-15 rifles no more kids will get killed

Pres. Biden is more concerned about children than the gun strokers.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: pdq
Date: June 01, 2022 08:30AM
I still find this all to be a distraction. What we hear now is that the local police went into the school something like 4 minutes after the shooter, were shot at by this guy with an assault rifle, who then locked himself in a classroom.

It’s not clear when the victims were killed, but if the 18 year old had stopped shooting, it (sadly) doesn’t sound like a bad decision to me to wait until a SWAT/hostage team which was equipped to take on a troubled/suicidal young man with an assault rifle.

Uvalde, is after all, a town of ~15,000, IIRC. The idea that these small town police should have somehow blasted their way through a locked door into a room full of children with a deranged man with an assault rifle sounds more like a gun fetishist fantasy to me.

There will always be angry disaffected young men, in this country and in every other.

There will always be doors that are supposed to lock but don’t.

The glaring outlier here is that an 18 year old with a history of troubles can buy two highly deadly military assault rifles like I can buy milk.

It’s the guns. All the rest is Monday morning quarterbacking and distraction.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 01, 2022 08:32AM
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 01, 2022 09:05AM
Quote
Mr645
Why is the door even a concern, Joe Biden is opposed to locked doors, improved security and safety for school children. If we just get rid of AR-15 rifles no more kids will get killed

Still working for that Trolling Merit(less) badge we see.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: graylocks
Date: June 01, 2022 09:33AM
Quote
pdq
It’s not clear when the victims were killed, but if the 18 year old had stopped shooting, it (sadly) doesn’t sound like a bad decision to me to wait until a SWAT/hostage team which was equipped to take on a troubled/suicidal young man with an assault rifle.

He hadn't stopped shooting. The initial massive barrage was over but shots were still being fired. There were at least 5 calls to 911 over 40 minutes of the timeframe from kids trapped but hidden in the rooms with him. It is not clear whether or not the fact that those calls were happening was relayed to the officers outside the door. nonetheless, they did hear the additional shots.

The Daily:Why the Police Took 78 Minutes to Stop the Uvalde Gunman.



"Success isn't about how much money you make. It is about the difference you make in people's lives."--Michelle Obama



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/01/2022 09:37AM by graylocks.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: June 01, 2022 10:45AM
Not to be troublesome but a question I have not heard addressed is if the classroom door (not the outside door) was locked, how did he get in the classroom? There was already a shooting taking place, why would they open it?



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Blankity Blank
Date: June 01, 2022 11:06AM
Quote
Ombligo
Not to be troublesome but a question I have not heard addressed is if the classroom door (not the outside door) was locked, how did he get in the classroom? There was already a shooting taking place, why would they open it?

From the latest timelines I’m reading, and the accounts that he was in fact not confronted by anyone before gaining entrance to the school, my read is that there likely was little to no warning of a shooter before he got to the entrance to the classrooms.

The last account I recall stated he was the one who locked the classroom door(s).



National Suicide Prevention Lifeline
As of July 16, 2022, the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is now available by simply dialing 988. The previous number, 1-800-273-8255, will remain active.

I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn the inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: kj
Date: June 01, 2022 05:29PM
No blame needs to be or should be assigned. The problem we have should be fixed (or at least something toward that end).

Both students and teachers prop doors open, and they should quit doing that. There are ways that can be done, I'm sure. Doesn't mean they are to "blame".

If you were going to "blame" someone, it would be the shooter. Useless, because he's already fixed. So forget blame, we just need to fix the problem, and it's going to take more than one thing. One part could be security of schools, so no reason to throw that part out.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 01, 2022 05:46PM
Schools shouldn't need to be locked down. Are schools in Canada or Europe in a constant fear of gun violence?
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: kj
Date: June 01, 2022 06:23PM
Quote
RgrF
Schools shouldn't need to be locked down. Are schools in Canada or Europe in a constant fear of gun violence?

I actually would be really surprised if schools in most places weren't locked everywhere but the front entrance. There's a lot of funny business that goes on, not just gun violence**. If you could come over, I'd show you a door in the back of a junior high that is propped open with a rock, that a teacher put there. I check every once in a while when we go on a dog walk, because I used to find it amusing. Not so much now.

People really shouldn't have to lock their doors at home either, but...it has evolved into a pretty good thing to do.

**Two things I actually experienced were a divorced parent trying to "kidnap" his kids. The doors were locked, and someone asked wtf he was doing. The other was a parent who was a convicted pedophile, not allowed on school grounds, trying to sneak his kid out of school because he got sick of waiting in the adjacent business parking lot where he was supposed to wait. Both good illustrations of why security is a good thing. And there are numerous smaller things.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: RgrF
Date: June 01, 2022 06:58PM
You dodged the question, are schools in Canada or Europe in constant fear of gun violence?





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/02/2022 12:16AM by RgrF.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: deckeda
Date: June 02, 2022 11:59AM
Or she could have just picked up the rock and hit the assailant instead. So many opportunities for safety.

My favorite is still the suggestion to turn teachers into Rambo’s, which acknowledges how effective firearms are without acknowledging how effective firearms are, overall.

Every event remains a unique unicorn with no solution. Neat. Tidy.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: kj
Date: June 02, 2022 12:06PM
Quote
RgrF
You dodged the question, are schools in Canada or Europe in constant fear of gun violence?


You didn't ask that question. Do they lock the doors of their schools? In Europe, my experience is that they are way more anal about security than we are, but that's in Scandinavia. That's not the cure, but it sure as frick isn't a bad idea. The people propping open doors are spoiled fricken' babies, like most of the U.S. (look at people's Covid responses), and they should follow the rules.

Again, not a cure, but it would help, and we should do lots of things that would help.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: pdq
Date: June 02, 2022 02:17PM
A cure would be to get rid of the guns.

It wouldn’t end all violence, but it would likely bring the death rate down by half or two-thirds, like other countries enjoy.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: June 02, 2022 03:11PM
Quote
pdq
A cure would be to get rid of the guns...

agree smiley

But it also has a chance of happening approaching 0%...also - since they have NOT disappeared yet, what should people do in the meantime?

Telling them to don't bother having locks on your doors, or to use the locks if you do have them is about the same as telliing people to not use seatbelts and don't own fire extinguishers.

In an ideal world, such precautions would not be needed - but are we currently living in that ideal world?
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: kj
Date: June 02, 2022 04:13PM
Quote
pdq
A cure would be to get rid of the guns.

It wouldn’t end all violence, but it would likely bring the death rate down by half or two-thirds, like other countries enjoy.

A better cure would be world peace. Should happen any day now. There was a study a few years ago that concluded the world was close to it, don't know what happened.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 02, 2022 08:59PM
Quote
pdq
A cure would be to get rid of the guns.

It wouldn’t end all violence, but it would likely bring the death rate down by half or two-thirds, like other countries enjoy.
Another thing that would help is if right-wing media would stop working their listeners/viewers into a frenzy of continuous anger and fear. There are people who are very susceptible to propaganda, and being told day in and day out that non-whites and liberal elites are trying to destroy them is bound to make some snap.



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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: pdq
Date: June 03, 2022 07:53AM
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
pdq
A cure would be to get rid of the guns...

agree smiley

But it also has a chance of happening approaching 0%...

It’s happened in other countries. Australia, New Zealand, now maybe Canada. No, you can’t wave a magic wand and make them all disappear overnight. It will be a looong road back from this national disaster that the NRA and the gun nuts have wrought in our country.

But they are very invested in making sure you believe it’s impossible. It’s not. Other countries have done it. We don’t have to live with this carnage.
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: June 03, 2022 09:40AM
Quote
pdq
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
pdq
A cure would be to get rid of the guns...

agree smiley

But it also has a chance of happening approaching 0%...

It’s happened in other countries. Australia, New Zealand, now maybe Canada. No, you can’t wave a magic wand and make them all disappear overnight. It will be a looong road back from this national disaster that the NRA and the gun nuts have wrought in our country.

But they are very invested in making sure you believe it’s impossible. It’s not. Other countries have done it. We don’t have to live with this carnage.

But - you left off the last half of my sentence:
Quote
SDGuy
...what should people do in the meantime?...

THAT was my main point;
I don't think any of us is arguing that where we find ourselves now is a good situation, and needs to be changed.

I am advocating that until conditions change, people should take precautions (as far as I can tell, though, others here take issue with that stance).
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Re: Uvalde teacher did NOT leave door open. (I'm sure the apologies will pour in)
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 03, 2022 09:54AM
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