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If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 04, 2022 11:10PM
why aren't their daily mass shooting events conducted by police officers in police stations? Or at a firearms manufacturing plant, or in gun stores? Or at shooting range? Or, better yet, a firing range that rents fully automatic weapons?



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/04/2022 11:14PM by Racer X.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: June 04, 2022 11:25PM
I'll tell you why, because you're skimming the issue like a proper gun nut.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 04, 2022 11:33PM
Quote
Kraniac
I'll tell you why, because you're skimming the issue like a proper gun nut.

But you didn't tell me why.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Kraniac
Date: June 04, 2022 11:39PM
I don't think you're looking for answers..i think you're all set.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 04, 2022 11:51PM
Actually I am. A fair number of people here think if a firearm is present, violence will always ensue, based on what they have written.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 04, 2022 11:59PM
“Man, 21, arrested a week after 3 killed at Georgia gun range”

“Colorado gun shop owner allegedly kills wife and 2 of his kids in suspected murder-suicide”

“Suspect in shooting at gun store in Louisiana had been asked to unload gun”

“Boy, 7, Killed at Gun Store by Father”

“Employee fatally shot in the face after owner mistakes real gun for BB gun”

“Georgia gun range owner and his family are killed in robbery“


etc., etc
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 05, 2022 12:11AM
So these were mass shootings in gun stores, or at shooting ranges?

I don't see any mass shootings?, and whatever they are, they sure aren't daily.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 05, 2022 12:42AM
Quote
DeusxMac
“Man, 21, arrested a week after 3 killed at Georgia gun range”

“Colorado gun shop owner allegedly kills wife and 2 of his kids in suspected murder-suicide”

“Suspect in shooting at gun store in Louisiana had been asked to unload gun”

“Boy, 7, Killed at Gun Store by Father”

“Employee fatally shot in the face after owner mistakes real gun for BB gun”

“Georgia gun range owner and his family are killed in robbery“


etc., etc

your first and last are the same one I believe. Hard to tell without source links.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 05, 2022 04:56AM
Our nearby gunner shop has two employees working. Not enough for a mass shooting unless they get multiple customers at a time.

Our city police headquarters has bulletproof glass at the entrance and they buzz in everyone.

We have many more schools than ranges for the gun strokers, each with many, many more living targets than at any range.

We do have an ammo plant about 60 miles away. I don’t know what they do for on-site security to protect the employees from what they are manufacturing.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 05, 2022 06:32AM
Speedy, what about the police behind the plexi? They don't seem to be shooting each other. They easily could. So, why don't they?



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Wild eep
Date: June 05, 2022 06:55AM
He tried so hard to camouflage. RollingEyesSmiley5
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: pdq
Date: June 05, 2022 08:32AM
Racer, you’re sounding increasingly more desperate in your “questions”.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 05, 2022 08:42AM
Quote
Racer X
So these were mass shootings in gun stores, or at shooting ranges?

I don't see any mass shootings?, and whatever they are, they sure aren't daily.

Sorry they don't meet your threshold for suffering and death. RollingEyesSmiley5
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 05, 2022 08:44AM
Quote
Wild eep
He tried so hard to camouflage. RollingEyesSmiley5

Welcome back Wild eep!
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 05, 2022 08:46AM
Quote
Racer X
why aren't their daily mass shooting events conducted by police officers in police stations? Or at a firearms manufacturing plant, or in gun stores? Or at shooting range? Or, better yet, a firing range that rents fully automatic weapons?

False equivalence – describing two or more statements as virtually equal when they are not.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: davester
Date: June 05, 2022 11:10AM
Quote
Racer X
Actually I am. A fair number of people here think if a firearm is present, violence will always ensue, based on what they have written.

Classic straw man fallacy*.



*The straw man is a fallacy in which an opponent's argument is overstated or misrepresented in order to be more easily attacked or refuted. The technique often takes quotes out of context or, more often, incorrectly paraphrases or summarizes an opponent's position. Then after "defeating" the position, the attacker claims to have beaten the real thing..



"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Speedy
Date: June 05, 2022 02:04PM
Quote
Racer X
Speedy, what about the police behind the plexi? They don't seem to be shooting each other. They easily could. So, why don't they?

Must be because they are all armed and are thus forced to be polite to each other. As we know, an armed society is a polite society. What’s it matter if we lose 30k dead to guns every year as long as the gun strokers can exercise their god given right?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 05, 2022 03:58PM
Quote
Racer X
why aren't their daily mass shooting events conducted by police officers in police stations? Or at a firearms manufacturing plant, or in gun stores? Or at shooting range? Or, better yet, a firing range that rents fully automatic weapons?
You really need to stop trying to con us into thinking that you are anything other than a boot-licking follower of the NRA playbok.



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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 05, 2022 04:06PM
Quote
Racer X
But you didn't tell me why.
Because if you go into a place where everyone is armed and start shooting, everyone can turn around practically simultaneously and shoot you dead. It's kind of a lose-lose.

And please don't respond by saying that the classroom should have armed all the little children that are now dead. Or pretend that one armed guard could have stopped it.

What's your problem? Do you have something in your personal history that is going to make them deny you a purchase if background checks are instituted?

Nobody here has ever said that a gun in a room causes people to go into a killing frenzy. Your arguments get weaker and weaker by the day.



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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: June 05, 2022 05:22PM
The defenders of uncontrolled gun ownership and sales keep bringing up these limited cases where a police station full of armed, trained officers is less likely to be shot up than the rest of us.

But here is the basic case:

A certain number of our fellow human beings lose their tempers but manage to maintain some level of self control. Another fraction of our fellow human beings lose their tempers and do not maintain self control. They will grab any item or weapon at hand and try to do something with it to the person or persons they have issues with.

And if there is a high power semiautomatic rifle available (or for immediate sale) then sometimes it will get used.

The result is that the more people there are and the more guns that are available, the more gunshot wounds will occur.

And yes, the data are consistent with this model of life and reality.

It is also true that there are a large number of people who own guns and don't usually lose self control. That is the main core of the gun owners' argument. It is entirely irrelevant except that these people -- the ones with self control -- are faced with the ultimate loss of their own weapons because the widespread availability of weapons is a danger to the rest of the population. I see your point, that you would like to collect guns and use them for sport, and you would lose out on these things if the laws are changed. But lots of us are prohibited from generating dangerous organisms using bioengineering, and few people complain about the rules. There are lots of other examples about regulation and limitations on different kinds of ownership, and most people recognize them to be reasonable.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Buzz
Date: June 05, 2022 08:08PM
FWIW, Super-sniper Chris Kyle & pal Chad Littlefield were taken out at a Texas shooting range....

While I agree mass shootings at places w/ a heavy firearm presence are rare, largely because of the more equal playing field; like w/ most statements, there are exceptions. The problem here in the U.S., is that the cat has been out of the bag for so long, that there simply so many legit gun owners, owing so many legit guns, that there's no easy way to fix the situation.

Because of this problem, it's too easy for crazies and bad guys to exploit the opportunities that this overabundance of supply presents. Again, there's no easy, or quick, fix. We, as a society, need to accept, and play the hand that has been dealt, and play it the best we can. That most certainly means taking baby steps in some/many areas, and bigger steps when and where they can be taken.

I'm not willingly giving up my guns unless, and until I know the crazies and bad guys don't have guns, or have access to them. Focus on some common sense steps that can get our country freed of all violence, most certainly including gun violence..... but we have to start at the top; January 6th was the most disgusting single day display of violence I have ever witnessed (albeit on TV) or lived thru. It eclipsed 9/11 because we not only did it to ourselves, it was done on the most sacred grounds of our country, enabled and promoted largely by people sworn to uphold our Country's Constitution.

How the hell does anyone realistically expect to fix the "gun" problem while we're still languishing in the shadow of January 6th? The hypocrisy that has been our government, needs an overhaul. Wanna deal the "guns" thing? That brings us right back to baby steps.

2¢ from this observation point.
==
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: Racer X
Date: June 06, 2022 12:12AM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Racer X
But you didn't tell me why.
Because if you go into a place where everyone is armed and start shooting, everyone can turn around practically simultaneously and shoot you dead. It's kind of a lose-lose.

And please don't respond by saying that the classroom should have armed all the little children that are now dead. Or pretend that one armed guard could have stopped it.

What's your problem? Do you have something in your personal history that is going to make them deny you a purchase if background checks are instituted?

Nobody here has ever said that a gun in a room causes people to go into a killing frenzy. Your arguments get weaker and weaker by the day.

I have 2 concealed weapons permits, which entail far more in-depth background checks than a Federal 4473, or the local SPD checks they run every time you purchase a semi auto-loading rifle with removable magazine, or handgun, in addition to the standard 4473 check mandated by federal law.

I've passed firearm purchase background checks over 50 times, a dozen just this year, and have volunteered to be fingerprinted 5 times, all vetted by the FBI, and once by Homeland Security for my Security Clearance.

How about the rest of the denizens here?

Oh, and a clean driving record, courtesy of my Defensive Driver Trainer cert.

I don't believe I have ever said I don't support background check. I support them fully. I've passed them over 50 times.

If you want, I'll send cellphone pics of my CWP licenses to RgG for 3rd party verification. She knows who I am, so I know I can trust her. Up to you. I've offered numerous times to share my brother's death cert to ptove I have had a family member commit suicide, because I have been accused of not understanding the toll on a family when someone in it commits suicide.

You THINK you have me all figured out, but you are REALLY wrong. But I suspect you don't care, because it wouldn't fit your internal narrative that you operate by.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/06/2022 12:23AM by Racer X.
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 06, 2022 08:12AM
Quote
Racer X
I have 2 concealed weapons permits, which entail far more in-depth background checks than a Federal 4473, or the local SPD checks they run every time you purchase a semi auto-loading rifle with removable magazine, or handgun, in addition to the standard 4473 check mandated by federal law.

I've passed firearm purchase background checks over 50 times, a dozen just this year, and have volunteered to be fingerprinted 5 times, all vetted by the FBI, and once by Homeland Security for my Security Clearance.

How about the rest of the denizens here?

Oh, and a clean driving record, courtesy of my Defensive Driver Trainer cert.

I don't believe I have ever said I don't support background check. I support them fully. I've passed them over 50 times.

If you want, I'll send cellphone pics of my CWP licenses to RgG for 3rd party verification. She knows who I am, so I know I can trust her. Up to you. I've offered numerous times to share my brother's death cert to ptove I have had a family member commit suicide, because I have been accused of not understanding the toll on a family when someone in it commits suicide.

You THINK you have me all figured out, but you are REALLY wrong. But I suspect you don't care, because it wouldn't fit your internal narrative that you operate by.

Yet again…

Logic chopping fallacy - Focusing on trivial details of an argument, rather than the main point of the argumentation.

Ad nauseum
XXX
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Re: If all it takes is a firearm in the presence of humans for carnage to ensue,
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 06, 2022 01:30PM
Quote
Racer X
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Racer X
But you didn't tell me why.
Because if you go into a place where everyone is armed and start shooting, everyone can turn around practically simultaneously and shoot you dead. It's kind of a lose-lose.

And please don't respond by saying that the classroom should have armed all the little children that are now dead. Or pretend that one armed guard could have stopped it.

What's your problem? Do you have something in your personal history that is going to make them deny you a purchase if background checks are instituted?

Nobody here has ever said that a gun in a room causes people to go into a killing frenzy. Your arguments get weaker and weaker by the day.

I have 2 concealed weapons permits, which entail far more in-depth background checks than a Federal 4473, or the local SPD checks they run every time you purchase a semi auto-loading rifle with removable magazine, or handgun, in addition to the standard 4473 check mandated by federal law.

I've passed firearm purchase background checks over 50 times, a dozen just this year, and have volunteered to be fingerprinted 5 times, all vetted by the FBI, and once by Homeland Security for my Security Clearance.

How about the rest of the denizens here?

Oh, and a clean driving record, courtesy of my Defensive Driver Trainer cert.

I don't believe I have ever said I don't support background check. I support them fully. I've passed them over 50 times.

If you want, I'll send cellphone pics of my CWP licenses to RgG for 3rd party verification. She knows who I am, so I know I can trust her. Up to you. I've offered numerous times to share my brother's death cert to ptove I have had a family member commit suicide, because I have been accused of not understanding the toll on a family when someone in it commits suicide.

You THINK you have me all figured out, but you are REALLY wrong. But I suspect you don't care, because it wouldn't fit your internal narrative that you operate by.
It is hard to take you seriously when you spend your days bragging about your arsenal as well as nitpicking terminology. I don't know why you can't figure out that trolling us with your guns and ammo is not a valid response to the deaths of small children.
I am, again, sorry for your loss, but I've had losses, too.



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