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Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Wags
Date: June 18, 2022 10:59PM
Conservatives are taking umbrage. "Woke" seems to be the dominant pejorative. I never thought the concept of being woke was a negative, but now it seems to be right up there with libtard and commie. I think I can fairly assume most of them are MAGA's. One guy even (subconsciously?) quotes the Donald:

Communist, Marxist, Leftist, Bolshevik GARBAGE!! SAD!!!

One of my favs:

Go hold hands with Satan and sing your praises to Ba'al.

I'll wear my oven mitts, but I forgot the words so I'll just hum along.

[www.amazon.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/18/2022 11:02PM by Wags.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: June 19, 2022 04:54AM
I never thought the concept of being woke was a negative


Nor I, but it's been slung around as invective for some time now.

I saw a comment about a military movie with a woman lead, and wow!

The whining about 'another WOKE strong woman movie'.

It was not a positive comment in anyway.

Obviously there are a lot of demographics that still consider women as second class citizens, if not outright a subservient species.






I am that Masked Man.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: S. Pupp
Date: June 19, 2022 08:04AM
There’s been too much propaganda about liberals being the spawn of satan. How in God’s name is being woke, or aware and respectful of other human beings and their struggles, demonic?
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Randalls
Date: June 19, 2022 08:14AM
I still believe there is a collection of psyops outfits that can cherry pick words and phrases that can capture the spirit of the message that strokes the group egos that they want to control. Thinking people who are better able to rationalize and have empathy for a situation can also be manipulated obviously, but not to the same degree or as easily.

The liberal snow flake “go Brandon” crowd don’t have as many developed buzz words (mouth breathers, bubble boy, degenerate) that scratch the itch of group think where folks can discover a new mantra that encompasses the pseudo hypnosis needed to easily strike a cord that riles the Maga masses and makes them feel righteous.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 19, 2022 08:19AM
“Psyops”?

Nah, that’s basic advertising and marketing.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Randalls
Date: June 19, 2022 10:37AM
Well the Dems better hire a different marketing agency if they want more than a snowballs chance. I hear there are some good ones in Argentina
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: June 19, 2022 11:07AM
The British right has been using it for years. Very popular in right wing press.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: August West
Date: June 19, 2022 12:11PM
Quote
DeusxMac
“Psyops”?

Nah, that’s basic advertising and marketing.

+1, this has been well shown.



“There comes a point where we need to stop just pulling people out of the river. We need to go upstream and find out why they’re falling in."
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: June 19, 2022 12:26PM
Quote
RAMd®d
I never thought the concept of being woke was a negative


Nor I, but it's been slung around as invective for some time now...

"Woke" caught on in black communities as an ironic description of self-aggrandizing white folks who praised themselves for being aware of black civil rights issues without actually doing anything to help.

Now, it's commonly used simply to mean someone who is aware of racism and racist institutions, or alert to social injustices.

Apparently, "aware of social injustice" is the greatest insult a republican can sling.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2022 12:29PM by Tiangou.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 02:29PM
"Woke" caught on in black communities as an ironic description of self-aggrandizing white folks who ....."

No....

May be used that way NOW sometimes. But "Stay woke" dates from at least the 1930s and is from African American Vernacular English.

"Black American folk singer-songwriter Huddie Ledbetter, a.k.a. Lead Belly, uses the phrase near the end of the recording of his 1938 song "Scottsboro Boys", which tells the story of nine black teenagers accused of raping two white women, saying: "I advise everybody, be a little careful when they go along through there – best stay woke, keep their eyes open."[9][10] Aja Romano writes at Vox that this represents "Black Americans' need to be aware of racially motivated threats and the potential dangers of white America".[4] J. Saunders Redding recorded a comment from an African American United Mine Workers official in 1940, stating: "Let me tell you buddy. Waking up is a damn sight harder than going to sleep, but we'll stay woke up longer."

MLK used it in a commencement speech in 1965, urgong graduates to be woke to social injustice.

Bottom line, Black folk have been urging one another to "stay woke" as a GOOD thing for nearly 100 years and naturally white people had to ruin it.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: vision63
Date: June 19, 2022 02:39PM
"Woke" has always been a negative. The goal has been to encourage others to conform to a way of of thought by feeling shame for not conforming.

Not far away is the term "slept on." Everybody comprehended something cool that you failed to recognize. This places you on the outside of what is generally considered to be cool. You don't want to be that person.

These tools are wielded by groups/persons working hard to develop and build consensus. Not necessarily by the characteristic nature of the subject/issue, but by the prevailing strong wind of group conformity.

Anything that pushes people towards purity of thought and righteousness of purpose is simply not a good thing. The world is gray and not black/white.

For people that hew to the left, it means we hand our enemies handy tools to effectively use against us. To stoke their smaller army to victory. In the end all that matters is winning.

Purity + Righteousness = Losing.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 02:42PM
Woke" has always been a negative. The goal has been to encourage others to conform to a way of of thought by feeling shame for not conforming."


Sorry but that is an historically inaccurate and really bad take.

See my comment anove.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: vision63
Date: June 19, 2022 02:49PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Woke" has always been a negative. The goal has been to encourage others to conform to a way of of thought by feeling shame for not conforming."


Sorry but that is an historically inaccurate and really bad take.

See my comment anove.

It's totally accurate. It's all within the middle of my culture from it's beginning. I understand why it started and why people used it. It started out innocently enough. It got a big boost on "School Daze." But what it's become is just something useless and negative.

It's not just that. It's virtually "any" other collectivized slogan.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2022 02:51PM by vision63.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 02:58PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Woke" has always been a negative. The goal has been to encourage others to conform to a way of of thought by feeling shame for not conforming."


Sorry but that is an historically inaccurate and really bad take.

See my comment anove.

It's totally accurate. It's all within the middle of my culture from it's beginning. I understand why it started and why people used it. It started out innocently enough. It got a big boost on "School Daze." But what it's become is just something useless and negative.

It's not just that. It's virtually "any" other collectivized slogan.

I think you are using white people's bastardization of a term we have never owned to make a case for...I'm not sure what.

The average white person doesn't understand the term. (see above for examples)

We can't throw out language, or history.
People using "stay woke" as a put down are being dumb. I don't use it at all, doesnt belong to me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2022 02:58PM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: vision63
Date: June 19, 2022 03:13PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Woke" has always been a negative. The goal has been to encourage others to conform to a way of of thought by feeling shame for not conforming."


Sorry but that is an historically inaccurate and really bad take.

See my comment anove.

It's totally accurate. It's all within the middle of my culture from it's beginning. I understand why it started and why people used it. It started out innocently enough. It got a big boost on "School Daze." But what it's become is just something useless and negative.

It's not just that. It's virtually "any" other collectivized slogan.

I think you are using white people's bastardization of a term we have never owned to make a case for...I'm not sure what.

The average white person doesn't understand the term. (see above for examples)

We can't throw out language, or history.
People using "stay woke" as a put down are being dumb. I don't use it at all, does not belong to me.

It's just words. it doesn't belong to anybody. Anybody claiming it does is an internal enemy seeking purity, seeking conformity and then trying to be exclusive about it. A person like you, who has "only" been a good, honest and caring person is supposed to feel guilty.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 03:22PM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
vision63
Quote
Lemon Drop
Woke" has always been a negative. The goal has been to encourage others to conform to a way of of thought by feeling shame for not conforming."


Sorry but that is an historically inaccurate and really bad take.

See my comment anove.

It's totally accurate. It's all within the middle of my culture from it's beginning. I understand why it started and why people used it. It started out innocently enough. It got a big boost on "School Daze." But what it's become is just something useless and negative.

It's not just that. It's virtually "any" other collectivized slogan.

I think you are using white people's bastardization of a term we have never owned to make a case for...I'm not sure what.

The average white person doesn't understand the term. (see above for examples)

We can't throw out language, or history.
People using "stay woke" as a put down are being dumb. I don't use it at all, does not belong to me.

It's just words. it doesn't belong to anybody. Anybody claiming it does is an internal enemy seeking purity, seeking conformity and then trying to be exclusive about it. A person like you, who has "only" been a good, honest and caring person is supposed to feel guilty.

I see where you're coming from. Feeling guilty.. there's another ball of wax.

I love language the way you love politics...so the collision makes some sense.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 19, 2022 03:26PM
How “woke” is used now is the issue.

Clearly the common meaning of “gay” in the 21st Century is NOT the same as its common meaning in the 19th Century (and the first half of the 20th).
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 04:02PM
Quote
DeusxMac
How “woke” is used now is the issue.

Clearly the common meaning of “gay” in the 21st Century is NOT the same as its common meaning in the 19th Century (and the first half of the 20th).

You're gonna get in trouble with any language reference like that. Nobody knows how or when the term "gay" became synonymous with homosexuals, but some theories put it back to 17th century France, others Victorian England, others WWI. I've read many plausible theories on that.

Understanding history and context makes our conversations richer, more meaningful. Don't you agree?
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: June 19, 2022 04:16PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
"Woke" caught on in black communities as an ironic description of self-aggrandizing white folks who ....."

No....

May be used that way NOW sometimes. But "Stay woke" dates from at least the 1930s and is from African American Vernacular English....

That's not slang. It's being used to mean "alert" or "awake" there. Synonyms.

The OED is not much use when you're looking up 21st century slang.



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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 04:36PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Lemon Drop
"Woke" caught on in black communities as an ironic description of self-aggrandizing white folks who ....."

No....

May be used that way NOW sometimes. But "Stay woke" dates from at least the 1930s and is from African American Vernacular English....

That's not slang. It's being used to mean "alert" or "awake" there. Synonyms.

The OED is not much use when you're looking up 21st century slang.

Huh?

I never refer to Black English as "slang." Read more about the origins of "woke" if you're interested. Cool if you are not. Most white people are not.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: June 19, 2022 05:33PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
I never refer to Black English as "slang."

Might try to stay away from that phrase.

It's slang, or if you want to sound erudite it's AAVE.

Using the phrase "Black English" is an insult in many places. It's a code-switching problem where some uses by some people in some contexts are probably fine, but many white folks use it to imply that the target is uneducated or unintelligent, so unless you're very confident that you're using it correctly with the right audience I suggest that you pick a substitute word or phrase.



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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Ted King
Date: June 19, 2022 05:55PM
[philosophyforchange.wordpress.com]

Quote

Wittgenstein’s view of language is also important for anyone engaging in philosophy. The dictum: ‘In most cases, meaning is use’ serves as a vital corrective for the impulse to launch into vague metaphysical speculations premised on the misuse of words. Take the word ‘God’, for example. The contemporary debate between atheists and believers is premised on the idea that the word ‘God’ either represents something in the real world, or it does not. Believers argue that it does (and tie themselves in knots trying to verify this claim), while atheists argue that it doesn’t. However, both parties to this debate unwittingly rely on a picture theory of language. On this theory, language represents facts about the world. What is says is either true or false. Never the twain shall meet.

A Wittgensteinian approach to the debate begins by pointing out ‘God’ is a word that has different meanings in the context of different communities. In the context of different linguistic communities, people use ‘God’ in different ways to articulate different facets of experience (consider ‘It’s in God’s hands now’ or ‘When the sun rose, I felt the presence of God’). Another way of thinking about the meaning of ‘God’, therefore, is to see peoples’ use of this term as a move in a social language game – a move that ideally has specific connotations for members of a community. Perhaps the term expresses fidelity to a way of life, as Karen Armstrong argues. Perhaps it expresses wonder in the face of existence. The bottom line is that using a term does not necessarily imply a belief in an entity that corresponds to this term. The meaning of a word hinges on its usefulness in context, not its ideal referent outside of all possible contexts.



e pluribus unum
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 19, 2022 07:03PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Lemon Drop
I never refer to Black English as "slang."

Might try to stay away from that phrase.

It's slang, or if you want to sound erudite it's AAVE.

Using the phrase "Black English" is an insult in many places. It's a code-switching problem where some uses by some people in some contexts are probably fine, but many white folks use it to imply that the target is uneducated or unintelligent, so unless you're very confident that you're using it correctly with the right audience I suggest that you pick a substitute word or phrase.

Bless your heart.
Here is something for your cultural education.
Black English Matters
[daily.jstor.org]
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: June 19, 2022 07:31PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Bless your heart.
Here is something for your cultural education...

Sure. Go ahead and use that phrase when you're a professional linguist.



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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 19, 2022 08:56PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
DeusxMac
How “woke” is used now is the issue.

Clearly the common meaning of “gay” in the 21st Century is NOT the same as its common meaning in the 19th Century (and the first half of the 20th).

You're gonna get in trouble with any language reference like that. Nobody knows how or when the term "gay" became synonymous with homosexuals, but some theories put it back to 17th century France, others Victorian England, others WWI. I've read many plausible theories on that.

Understanding history and context makes our conversations richer, more meaningful. Don't you agree?

Do you have examples of “gay” being used in the popular (widely distributed) media of the 19th or early 20th Century where the clear, intended and understood-by-readers meaning was as it is used, intended and understood now?
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: $tevie
Date: June 19, 2022 10:24PM
This wins a blue ribbon for most pedantic thread in the history of the forum.



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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: mrbigstuff
Date: June 19, 2022 10:31PM
Wow. I'm amazed at all of these "interpretations" of the term "woke." Among my friends, all lefties and liberals, the term has become sort of a joke. No one I know uses the word seriously, it's used to denote someone who is overly righteous, or faux virtuous.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Acer
Date: June 20, 2022 12:03AM
Well, shucks, just when I thought I had nailed down the meaning of "SJW" they have a new secret word to giggle about.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: June 20, 2022 09:09AM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Lemon Drop
Quote
DeusxMac
How “woke” is used now is the issue.

Clearly the common meaning of “gay” in the 21st Century is NOT the same as its common meaning in the 19th Century (and the first half of the 20th).

You're gonna get in trouble with any language reference like that. Nobody knows how or when the term "gay" became synonymous with homosexuals, but some theories put it back to 17th century France, others Victorian England, others WWI. I've read many plausible theories on that.

Understanding history and context makes our conversations richer, more meaningful. Don't you agree?

Do you have examples of “gay” being used in the popular (widely distributed) media of the 19th or early 20th Century where the clear, intended and understood-by-readers meaning was as it is used, intended and understood now?

I guess we don't agree. As we all know, prior to the Sexual Revolution nobody discussed homosexuality in public much at all. So not sure why youre expecting that type of reference.
It was in the shadows.
One of the more prevalent theories about the origins of "gay" to describe homosexual men is from Victorian England. Ladies of the evening were known as "gay women" because they showed clients a happy time. So police began to use "gay" as code for male prostitutes, particularly after the arrest and imprisonment of Oscar Wilde for "indecency?"
And the persecution continues. Over to you Ron Desantis and Texas GOP.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2022 09:10AM by Lemon Drop.
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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: June 20, 2022 09:35AM
[gizmodo.com]

You can say a lot of things about Amazon’s The Boys, but you can’t exactly call it subtle. The show, based on Garth Ennis and Darick Robertson’s acclaimed comics from Dynamite Entertainment, focuses on a group of corporate owned superheroes called The Seven, and a semi-covert group of average people named The Boys who’ve taken it upon themselves to kill the heroes. Across the show’s three seasons, it’s always been pretty upfront with the kind of satire it’s going for and who it tears down.

In the case of the show’s vengeful Superman-alike, Homelander (Anthony Starr), the show has said so many times in so many words that he was conceived as an analogue of former president Donald Trump. Season two even ended on him literally getting off to the idea of how much power he has over everyone else; and if that didn’t say it all, a cosplayer showing up as the character during a MAGA rally in 2020 would do the job. And should you have missed the text of the show, you’re in luck: showrunner Eric Kripke, Robertson, and even Starr himself have tried their damnedest to tell folks who Homelander really is...

Homelander is meant to represent “white male victimization and unchecked ambition.” It’s quite clear from reading the showrunner’s thoughts on his patriotic baddie that he has a lot of contempt for both the character and the former Head of State who inspired him, admitting that it was still surreal that Trump won the 2016 election in the first place. But much as Trump has informed the show’s chief antagonist, Kripke knows the satire doesn’t just end with this one man.

In the years since Trump’s election, more government officials have begun enacting racist, sexist, or transphobic laws just because they can, and in several cases, have been applauded for it. “The more awful public figures act, the more fans they seem to be getting,” acknowledged Kripke. “That’s a phenomenon that we wanted to explore, that Homelander is realizing that he can actually show them who he really is and they’ll love him for it.” With the show already locked in for another season, Kripke will certainly be exploring more of the monstrous boy scout’s depravity. If you still need more evidence about who the guy’s based on, you’ll certainly be getting it. Just be sure to pay attention this time.




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Re: Amazon reviews for The Boys turning into a political forum - WOKE!!
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: June 20, 2022 03:56PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
I guess we don't agree. As we all know, prior to the Sexual Revolution nobody discussed homosexuality in public much at all. So not sure why youre expecting that type of reference.
It was in the shadows.
One of the more prevalent theories about the origins of "gay" to describe homosexual men is from Victorian England. Ladies of the evening were known as "gay women" because they showed clients a happy time. So police began to use "gay" as code for male prostitutes, particularly after the arrest and imprisonment of Oscar Wilde for "indecency?"

So there are no examples of “gay” being used in the popular (widely distributed) media of the 19th or early 20th Century where the clear, intended and understood-by-readers meaning was as it is used, intended and understood now.

Quote
Lemon Drop
And the persecution continues. Over to you Ron Desantis and Texas GOP.

I hope your "Ron Desantis and Texas GOP" comment was directed at them and not me.
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