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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 08, 2022 07:54PM
Quote
racer
And I have proven multiple times that people use MSR platform rifles for hunting and competitive shooting. So, there are other purposes than killing humans. You, and others refuse to acknowledge that because it doesn't fit your world view and agenda.

I could drive a Formula One car to the grocery store and to take Mom to church , I mean it can do that. But is that what it was designed for? Of course not.

The platform that gunners now euphemistically call the "modern sporting rifle" evolved from Vietnam era rifles specifically manufactured to blow victims apart. The first time one was used to kill 6 VC, the American soldiers who saw the dead bodies described them as not just shot, but literally blown apart. Organs exploded.

No civilian needs to own that for any purpose. Other weapons can be used to hunt or do target practice. But those don't excite gun customers the way ar15s do. Gun manufacturers never would have made the billions they have made had the federal assault weapons ban remained in place.

We need strict federal regulation of all privately owned guns. But there are some that simply don't belong in civilian hands.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 08, 2022 08:19PM
and they fixed the design in '67 so the bullets didn't tumble inside the body anymore. Sped up the rifling twist. Tumbling was very counterproductive, and that is, oddly, very counterintuitive.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 08, 2022 08:31PM
Quote
Racer X
no, they, I assume, want to save lives. There would be a far greater impact if they focused their efforts on something that would yield greater benefit to our society. Second hand smoke alone kills more people than firearm murders.

Don't say "no".
You specifically wrote "Outlaw tobacco" and "Outlaw alcohol"

Quote
Racer X
Outlaw tobacco, More than 480,000 deaths annually, and that includes 41,000 innocent deaths from second hand smoke. More than twice that of firearm homicide.

Outlaw alcohol, More than 140,000 people die from excessive alcohol use in the U.S. each year. In addition, In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States. "Every day, 29 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This is one death every 50 minutes"

Nobody here is calling to "Outlaw guns". As I said, your argument is specious. You think you are making a great point when in fact you are posting non sequiturs.



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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: July 08, 2022 08:31PM
Quote
Racer X
and they fixed the design in '67 so the bullets didn't tumble inside the body anymore. Sped up the rifling twist. Tumbling was very counterproductive, and that is, oddly, very counterintuitive.

That 1962 ammo was the .223, still the most commonly used ammo with ar15s.

Desogned specifically to blow human flesh apart, leave huge holes, melt organs, sever arteries. DESIGNED to do that, in the military arena.

[www.thetrace.org]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 08, 2022 08:36PM
Quote
Racer X
My brother chose to hang himself. I've mentioned it MANY times here.
Yes, you have. Many, many times in fact. I think it's really cold to reduce a personal tragedy to a talking point on a political internet forum. It's like you don't give a fat rat's ass about him aside from using him as a cheap debating point. I say this as a person who has experienced tragedies myself and have indeed mentioned it here but not on a daily basis.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2022 08:38PM by $tevie.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: deckeda
Date: July 08, 2022 08:41PM
Angry people typically don’t force alcohol down the throats of others. Bullets work much better at killing. That’s what we’re talking about, not every single possible way humans die, out of context.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 08, 2022 08:41PM
Quote
deckeda
Angry people typically don’t force alcohol down the throats of others. Bullets work much better at killing. That’s what we’re talking about, not every single possible way humans die, out of context.
Thank you. That's an excellent point.



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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 08, 2022 08:47PM
The original ammo was the .223 specifically fired from a barrel with a 1 rev per 14 inches of barrel twist. The original Colt 601/AR-15. That is what caused them to tumble in the body. The DoD switched the specs to 1 in 12 or 1 in 10, depending on total barrel length, and redesignated the firearm the M16a1 in 1967. [en.wikipedia.org])

Check the summary of differences and see the barrel twist changes as you get newer down the table? The X designation is experimental model not fully accepted and approved btw. I used to work for the company who owns Winchester doing high speed filming and video of weapons systems testing.

You would have to special order a firearm with that 1:14 twist barrel these days, unless you were purchasing a repro or original Colt SP1 for some specific vintage high powered match competitions. Standard these days is between 1:9 "and 1:7"

And I have yet to hear of a bullet that can melt flesh. The closest is the Gyroject round, which was actually a tiny pistol launched rocket. Back in the '50s? Wildly inaccurate, but the plume could burn flesh I suppose.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2022 08:59PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 08, 2022 08:49PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Racer X
My brother chose to hang himself. I've mentioned it MANY times here.
Yes, you have. Many, many times in fact. I think it's really cold to reduce a personal tragedy to a talking point on a political internet forum. It's like you don't give a fat rat's ass about him aside from using him as a cheap debating point. I say this as a person who has experienced tragedies myself and have indeed mentioned it here but not on a daily basis.

And at no point have I ever even thought for a second to blame the rope for his death.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: pdq
Date: July 09, 2022 11:15AM
Just FYI for readers of this thread, any minor amount of googling will convince you that these bullets do tend to tumble and shatter inside the body, and create horrific wounds as a result.

Doctors can attest to this; gun nuts attest to this.

I posted some links above, but Racer seems to have dug in his heels on this to the point of sheer denial.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 11:35AM
not when the twist rate is faster, which it is for the past half a century. basic ballistics. basic physics. ballistic gel video posted.

any links to flesh melting bullets? or lung removing 9mm pistol ammo?

Let's look. Flesh melting bullets [www.google.com]

lung removing bullets [www.google.com] can't find any.

blowing out a lung with a bullet [www.newsweek.com] [www.breitbart.com]



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 12:58PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 09, 2022 12:23PM
"breitbart.com"?!? X There's a problem!

"...widely considered to be ideologically driven, and much of its content has been called misogynistic, xenophobic, and racist by liberals and traditional conservatives alike."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 12:23PM by DeusxMac.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 01:03PM
so, Biden didn't say it, or there ARE lung removing 9mm bullets that will blow them out of the body? There is a manufacturer selling a satirized limited edition "Blood Eagle Lung Remover" bullet. Just special packaging. Because it was such an outrageous statement. Not unlike the Hornady Zombie rounds, with lime green flex lock tips. Full disclosure. Satire packaging doesn't make them real.

Oh please, tell me more! [www.google.com]

and to pdq, are you refuting that the DoD changed the twist rate in the old AR-15 to stabilize the .223/5.56 round in '67 (or earlier)? Sped it up from 1:14 to stabilize it? That the current twist rate in military M16 and M4 variants are twice as fast at 1:7 now (with possible special purpose rifle exceptions) ? That it hasn't been 1:14 for close to 55 years?



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 01:15PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 09, 2022 01:07PM
Whatever. Does it really matter if a 9mm can blow out your lung? It's more than capable of killing you any number of ways. When your kindergartener is bleeding out on the classroom floor, are you really going to say, "Well, at least it was a clean wound" and go about your business? It's a testament to how broken this topic is in America when we have to exaggerate the effects of being shot just get people's attention on having been shot.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 01:17PM by Acer.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 01:13PM
“ not when the twist rate is faster, which it is for the past half a century. basic ballistics. basic physics. ballistic gel video posted. “

Exactly what is the effect of a 9mm projectile on the head of an eight year old child in a classroom?

Please describe.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 01:17PM
This isn’t about ballistic f’kng gel!

We are talking about lives.

Wake TF up!
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 01:21PM
Quote
Acer
Whatever. Does really matter if a 9mm can blow out your lung? It's is more than capable of killing you any number of ways. When your kindergartener is bleeding out on the classroom floor, are you really going to say, "Well, at least it was a clean wound" and go about your business? It's a testament to how awful this whole topic is when we have to exaggerate the effects of being shot just get people's attention on having been shot.

So, we throw up our arms and make decisions based on feelings and emotions, rather than facts and the law.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 01:25PM
Just keep fondling your gun. That will make everything better.

Ballistic gel; what a jackass.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 09, 2022 01:33PM
Quote
Racer X
so, Biden didn't say it, or there ARE lung removing 9mm bullets that will blow them out of the body? There is a manufacturer selling a satirized limited edition "Blood Eagle Lung Remover" bullet. Just special packaging. Because it was such an outrageous statement. Not unlike the Hornady Zombie rounds, with lime green flex lock tips. Full disclosure. Satire packaging doesn't make them real.

Oh please, tell me more! [www.google.com]

and to pdq, are you refuting that the DoD changed the twist rate in the old AR-15 to stabilize the .223/5.56 round in '67 (or earlier)? Sped it up from 1:14 to stabilize it? That the current twist rate in military M16 and M4 variants are twice as fast at 1:7 now (with possible special purpose rifle exceptions) ? That it hasn't been 1:14 for close to 55 years?

Just more and more unending...

Logic chopping fallacy - Focusing on trivial details of an argument, rather than the main point of the argumentation.

Ignoratio elenchi – an argument that may in itself be valid, but does not address the issue in question.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 01:34PM
Quote
btfc
“ not when the twist rate is faster, which it is for the past half a century. basic ballistics. basic physics. ballistic gel video posted. “

Exactly what is the effect of a 9mm projectile on the head of an eight year old child in a classroom?

Please describe.

same effect on a 56 year old disabled man who has the Right to protect himself. I've already been shot once. Next time, if there is one, might not end the same.

I'm dealing in facts. verifiable facts. Now the shouting, histrionics and arm waving begins. That usually happens when things don't go your way.

crazy statements like "melt organs" from Lemon Drop illustrate this.

Have there been any links verifying organ melting bullets? Lung removing bullets? "A 9mm bullet blows the lung out of the body."



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 01:56PM
Not answering the question, once again.

Maybe someone should follow you around until you do, right?

Who gives a rat’s ass on the effect a bullet has on ballistic gel?

What effect does it have on a human?

All your little games won’t obfuscate that.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 02:01PM
Quote
$tevie
Quote
Racer X
no, they, I assume, want to save lives. There would be a far greater impact if they focused their efforts on something that would yield greater benefit to our society. Second hand smoke alone kills more people than firearm murders.

Don't say "no".
You specifically wrote "Outlaw tobacco" and "Outlaw alcohol"

Quote
Racer X
Outlaw tobacco, More than 480,000 deaths annually, and that includes 41,000 innocent deaths from second hand smoke. More than twice that of firearm homicide.

Outlaw alcohol, More than 140,000 people die from excessive alcohol use in the U.S. each year. In addition, In 2016, 10,497 people died in alcohol-impaired driving crashes, accounting for 28% of all traffic-related deaths in the United States. "Every day, 29 people in the United States die in motor vehicle crashes that involve an alcohol-impaired driver. This is one death every 50 minutes"

Nobody here is calling to "Outlaw guns". As I said, your argument is specious. You think you are making a great point when in fact you are posting non sequiturs.

I never said "they" are trying to outlaw guns. I said "no, they, I assume, want to save lives. There would be a far greater impact if they focused their efforts on something that would yield greater benefit to our society. Second hand smoke alone kills more people than firearm murders."

If the goal is to save lives, go big and really save lives. But they don't want to commit career suicide by killing off millions of jobs and lord knows how many billions in tax revenue, by outlawing tobacco and alcohol. So they don't.

The only way firearms could be flat out outlawed would be by changing the Constitution, and that really wouldn't stop the criminals. Would slow them down, sure, but it isn't a solution, its a patch.

Helping people who are struggling emotionally, raising the little ones to become decent adults, and either rehabilitating the bad adults or incarcerating those who have proven they can't be trusted in open society will make a huge dent. And mental health intervention for the few percent who actually have a mental health problem. Raise the little ones right, they don't become bad big people. Will take maybe one to two generations. But the politicians won't go for it because without instant results, they don't get re-elected, or move on up in the food chain.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 02:09PM
Quote
btfc
Not answering the question, once again.

Maybe someone should follow you around until you do, right?

Who gives a rat’s ass on the effect a bullet has on ballistic gel?

What effect does it have on a human?

All your little games won’t obfuscate that.

If you want to know the answer, I have faith you can find the proper sources yourself. But I'll get you started [www.google.com]

[www.aans.org]

histrionics won't help.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 02:17PM
Describe please.

Different than gel, correct?

You seem clueless about what has been happening in this country lately.

Or is it that all the bodies are just collateral damage to your right to gun fondle?
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 02:28PM
I’ve seen someone’s brains on a wall. I don’t have to look it up.

But you were all gung ho about explaining how a 9mm projectile acts in ‘ ballistic gel ‘.

Why so shy about describing the effect on a child?
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 02:35PM
Quote
btfc
Describe please.

Different than gel, correct?

You seem clueless about what has been happening in this country lately.

Or is it that all the bodies are just collateral damage to your right to gun fondle?

.30-'06, M1 Garand round, or military/hunting bolt action rifle round (and some machine guns)

Wouldn't want to be accused of skewing anyone's perception by cherrypicking my words


This is a .30-'06 round

Should I find you some pig heads? Common analog.

And sometimes, you just walk around with it covered with a band-aid. [abc13.com]



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 02:39PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 02:43PM
A pig head and a child is a common analog?


Seek professional help immediately.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 02:46PM
Repeat after me:

“ It wasn’t pig heads that were shot in Uvalde; It was little kids!”
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 02:51PM
Quote
btfc
A pig head and a child is a common analog?


Seek professional help immediately.

histrionics again.

from a physiological standpoint, pigs have been used for human ballistic analogs for decades. Marshall and Sanow used goats back in 1989?

And when they were developing the Bradley Fighting vehicle, they used sheep to test the effectiveness of the armor. But first they needed to derive accepted sheep specs, before they could buy the sheep. [www.youtube.com]

Unless you want to go to China and see if they will let you experiment there on actual, um people. You seem really fixated on this.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 04:47PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 09, 2022 03:19PM
You seem to always turn it into a problem from a high school physics homework assignment while remaining oblivious to the reason we’re even discussing this.

Real people are dying. Way too many.

This little game you’re playing is ridiculous. Time to stop and seek help.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 03:47PM by btfc.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: July 09, 2022 03:37PM
Quote
Ca Bob
There is a simple difference, in that smoking and drinking are things you do to yourself.

Second hand smoke. Drunk drivers.



It is what it is.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 04:08PM
Quote
btfc
You seem to always turn it into a problem from a high school physics homework assignment while remaining oblivious to the reason we’re even discussing this.

Real people are dying. Way too many.

This little game you’re playing is ridiculous. Time to stop and seek help.

your concern is duly noted, and unwarranted.

People are dying every minute. The results of alcohol and smoking alone kill more than one a minute here in the US, and many of those are innocent 3rd party deaths. But they don't count.

But if it helps you personally, keep on denigrating me for my belief that it is a people problem first. I am not the only one who thinks this way. That school of thought is gaining traction too.

Only you can choose how your personal trauma shapes and directs you. No one else. Me, I choose to not blame the rope.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 04:10PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 09, 2022 05:41PM
"Since 1982, drunk driving fatalities on our nation's roadways have decreased 45%, while total traffic fatalities have declined 12%. Among persons under 21, drunk driving fatalities have decreased 83%"
[www.responsibility.org]

"The rate of new cases (incidence) increased 14% among men from 1975 until peaking in 1984, and has since decreased 46%.
The rate of new cases increased 120% among women from 1975 until peaking in 1998, and has since decreased 16%.
Over the last 10 years, rates have decreased by 23% for men and 13% for women.
Over the last 5 years, rates have decreased by 10% for men and 7% for women."

[www.lung.org]

"Overall, firearm deaths were up 33.9% from 1999 to 2016." [gun-control.procon.org]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 05:48PM
still at 640,000 a year for alcohol and tobacco. 15 times worse, including suicide. 30 without. one every 50 seconds. But those don't get votes, clicks or bring in money.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 05:49PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Acer
Date: July 09, 2022 07:53PM
Quote
Racer X
still at 640,000 a year for alcohol and tobacco. 15 times worse, including suicide. 30 without. one every 50 seconds. But those don't get votes, clicks or bring in money.

Yet you imply no one does cares about those. Clearly, we do, and we have had success. Gun death only increases in this country. (Well, it WAS going down, until the mid 00s.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 07:54PM by Acer.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 08:50PM
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Acer
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Racer X
still at 640,000 a year for alcohol and tobacco. 15 times worse, including suicide. 30 without. one every 50 seconds. But those don't get votes, clicks or bring in money.

Yet you imply no one does cares about those. Clearly, we do, and we have had success. Gun death only increases in this country. (Well, it WAS going down, until the mid 00s.)

I grew up watching all 4 of my grandparents die from cancer, from smoking. My mom's mom lived with us for almost 11 years, when they gave her maybe 6 months to live. 90% of her stomach was removed, as well as most of her esophagus. I listened to my dad's dad's lungs rattle with mucus as he used his massive nebulizer every few hours. Scared the bejusus out of us kids when he coughed. Fortunately, his wife's death was quick.

Now, mom's dad died when I was about 4. I only have the dichotomy of photos from when he was healthy, or my memories of the end.

If it makes you sleep better at night, get angry at an inanimate object. It isn't healthy or productive, but it makes for good media coverage.

A 26 year old in Arkansas with cancer because both parents were chain smokers doesn't. You know this to be true. And it's a lot more common. 2x in fact.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 08:55PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Harbourmaster
Date: July 09, 2022 09:26PM
I can’t simply walk in to the nearest school and kill 20 fourth graders with my pack of cigarettes… as fast as I can unload them from the package… now can I?



Aloha, Ken


“I have developed significant attachments to several members even though I wouldn't recognize them if I sat next to one on a park bench. I'm often tempted when in an airport to walk around, hollering "The Løpe", to see if anyone other than the Homeland Security people will acknowledge me. ” - The Løpe



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 09:27PM by Harbourmaster.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 09:43PM
And to match those 20 kids, 40 will die from 2nd hand smoke. And wouldn't make the news. You know this to be true.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: $tevie
Date: July 09, 2022 09:49PM
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Racer X
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$tevie
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Racer X
My brother chose to hang himself. I've mentioned it MANY times here.
Yes, you have. Many, many times in fact. I think it's really cold to reduce a personal tragedy to a talking point on a political internet forum. It's like you don't give a fat rat's ass about him aside from using him as a cheap debating point. I say this as a person who has experienced tragedies myself and have indeed mentioned it here but not on a daily basis.

And at no point have I ever even thought for a second to blame the rope for his death.

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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 09:54PM
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$tevie
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Racer X
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$tevie
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Racer X
My brother chose to hang himself. I've mentioned it MANY times here.
Yes, you have. Many, many times in fact. I think it's really cold to reduce a personal tragedy to a talking point on a political internet forum. It's like you don't give a fat rat's ass about him aside from using him as a cheap debating point. I say this as a person who has experienced tragedies myself and have indeed mentioned it here but not on a daily basis.

And at no point have I ever even thought for a second to blame the rope for his death.


The point is working on preventing fetal alcohol syndrome, and finding methods to ameliorate it's effects, is far more useful than getting consumed by focusing on the rope.

Unless it isn't more useful.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 09:56PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 09:57PM
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N-OS X-tasy!
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Ca Bob
There is a simple difference, in that smoking and drinking are things you do to yourself.

Second hand smoke. Drunk drivers.

fetal alcohol syndrome? You're in the medical field Bob, you know about FAS, right? [www.cdc.gov] I'm sure those unborn kids are just tossing those shots back double handed.

FAS and second hand smoke must be horrific issues on reservation land. But not cute inner city kids, so, not a topic on the nightly news.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 11:15PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 09, 2022 11:29PM
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Racer X
fetal alcohol syndrome? You're in the medical field Bob, you know about FAS, right? [www.cdc.gov] I'm sure those unborn kids are just tossing those shots back double handed.

FAS and second hand smoke must be horrific issues on reservation land. But not cute inner city kids, so, not a topic on the nightly news.

Red herring – introducing a second argument in response to the first argument that is irrelevant and draws attention away from the original topic*.

*Mass shooter’s impetus
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 09, 2022 11:46PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Racer X
fetal alcohol syndrome? You're in the medical field Bob, you know about FAS, right? [www.cdc.gov] I'm sure those unborn kids are just tossing those shots back double handed.

FAS and second hand smoke must be horrific issues on reservation land. But not cute inner city kids, so, not a topic on the nightly news.

Red herring – introducing a second argument in response to the first argument that is irrelevant and draws attention away from the original topic*.

*Mass shooter’s impetus

It's incredibly relevant, when FASD has multiple symptoms that can and likely do directly contribute to being bullied and subsequently lashing out, you know, like mass shooters do?

Here is a list. [www.cdc.gov]


Low body weight
Poor coordination
Hyperactive behavior
Difficulty with attention
Poor memory
Difficulty in school (especially with math)
Learning disabilities
Speech and language delays
Intellectual disability or low IQ
Poor reasoning and judgment skills
Sleep and sucking problems as a baby
Vision or hearing problems
Problems with the heart, kidneys, or bones
Shorter-than-average height
Small head size
Abnormal facial features, such as a smooth ridge between the nose and upper lip (this ridge is called the philtrum)


Unless, your esteemed sir, you dismiss and dis-allow FASD and any subsequent teasing/bullying as a possible cause for mass shootings.

"Quote
Ca Bob
There is a simple difference, in that smoking and drinking are things you do to yourself."

And I specifically called it to CA Bob's attention because he asserted that tobacco and alcohol were something you did to yourself. They don't effect others. I was quite surprised, as he does alcohol-related medical research as it pertains to breast cancer. Surely he would know about how FAS happens to the unborn child without their knowledge or consent, much less assistance.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2022 11:55PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 10, 2022 05:46AM
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btfc
I’ve seen someone’s brains on a wall. I don’t have to look it up.

But you were all gung ho about explaining how a 9mm projectile acts in ‘ ballistic gel ‘.

Why so shy about describing the effect on a child?

I didn't bring up 9mm ballistic gel testing, you did.

Sucks you had to see that, but other's here have seen it too. Someone here even had one parent murder the other. Yet, they still asked for home defense shotgun advice. You would really be surprised who.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 10, 2022 07:34AM
Quote
Racer X
It's incredibly relevant, when FASD has multiple symptoms that can and likely do directly contribute to being bullied and subsequently lashing out, you know, like mass shooters do?

Bare assertion fallacy – a claim that is presented as true without support, as self-evidently true, or as dogmatically true.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: btfc
Date: July 10, 2022 10:27AM
‘ “ not when the twist rate is faster, which it is for the past half a century. basic ballistics. basic physics. ballistic gel video posted. “

Exactly what is the effect of a 9mm projectile on the head of an eight year old child in a classroom?

Please describe. ‘

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Racer X


I didn't bring up 9mm ballistic gel testing, you did.


First time I’ve ever mentioned ballistic gel on this forum was quoting you on this thread.

So, are you on crack, just lying, or have you already forgotten all the inane stuff you’ve posted in this thread?


You should stop posting now, and give your brain a chance to catch up to what you’re typing.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2022 10:28AM by btfc.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 10, 2022 03:11PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Racer X
It's incredibly relevant, when FASD has multiple symptoms that can and likely do directly contribute to being bullied and subsequently lashing out, you know, like mass shooters do?

Bare assertion fallacy – a claim that is presented as true without support, as self-evidently true, or as dogmatically true.

It resulted in my brother being bullied........... And, unfortunately, FAS is pretty common, between .1 to 1% depending on the studies, up to 10% in some communities, so it would be an extraordinary stretch to think he was the only one bullied because of something he had absolutely no control over.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2022 09:32PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 10, 2022 06:07PM
Quote
btfc
‘ “ not when the twist rate is faster, which it is for the past half a century. basic ballistics. basic physics. ballistic gel video posted. “

Exactly what is the effect of a 9mm projectile on the head of an eight year old child in a classroom?

Please describe. ‘

Quote
Racer X


I didn't bring up 9mm ballistic gel testing, you did.


First time I’ve ever mentioned ballistic gel on this forum was quoting you on this thread.

So, are you on crack, just lying, or have you already forgotten all the inane stuff you’ve posted in this thread?


You should stop posting now, and give your brain a chance to catch up to what you’re typing.

You were the first to bring up 9mm anything in this thread. Other's were going on and on with half truths about 223/5.56 issues that haven't been issues in general practice since @1967. I even posted a YouTube ballistic gel testing video of a M193 military issue ball round in a 1:9 twist rifle, and it went through without tumbling.

You are correct in that you didn't say ballistics testing, I "mis-spoke". However you absolutely, incontrovertibly brought up 9mm ANYTHING first.

Are YOU willing to admit you threw a Red Herring 9mm pistol histrionic tantrum on the ground in the middle of a discussion dispelling the outdated shortcomings of a 55 year old rifle and it's round?

Or will you be stomping off, muttering to yourself?

I am a commercial photographer in the highly specialized technical field of high speed motion analysis, with years and years of experience working for and with defense contractors here and internationally, doing ballistics testing of munitions, munitions dispensing systems as well as fire suppression testing as it pertains to explosives on aircraft. All of the initial taser barb velocity testing was done by me for Tasertron and Taser International. None of this is a secret. MAVIC, cbelt3 pRON, Paul F and a few others have known this for years, some going back to the late '90s.

It's my JOB.

It is not my fault so many here have chosen to believe what popular culture, politicians and the media portray as the truth.

BTW, "silencers" aren't silent, and if you fire a pistol inside a car, you should be bleeding from the ears.



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2022 06:11PM by Racer X.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: July 10, 2022 06:38PM
Quote
Racer X
You were the first to bring up 9mm anything in this thread.
... you absolutely, incontrovertibly brought up 9mm ANYTHING first.
Are YOU willing to admit you threw a Red Herring 9mm pistol histrionic tantrum on the ground in the middle of a discussion

ACTUALLY Racer, you were the first to mention "9mm anything in this thread".

July 09, 2022 09:35AM
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Racer X
any links to flesh melting bullets? or lung removing 9mm pistol ammo?


You REALLY must try to keep track of what you have, and haven't said in your own posts. You're floundering!



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2022 06:41PM by DeusxMac.
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Re: finally, an article that addresses the majority of the mass shooter's impetus
Posted by: Racer X
Date: July 10, 2022 07:45PM
mea culpa.

found any evidence of flesh melting bullets, or bullets that blow people apart? explode organs? (Other than anti-aircraft/anti-materiel rounds of course)


Based on any testing I have ever done at work, or found on the internal R&D servers, they don't and likely can't exist.

And are you still disallowing developmentally disabled symptoms as having anything to do with bullying? Bullying, which is a proven cause of at least some mass shootings?



********************************************
“A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand.” Seneca the Younger

The police have no duty to respond. See Castle Rock v. Gonzales, 545 U.S. 748 (2005) or Warren v. District of Columbia[1] (444 A.2d. 1, D.C. Ct. of Ap. 1981)

Judge Lee wrote that “we cannot jettison our constitutional rights, even if the goal behind a law is laudable." 9th Circuit Court of Appeals

[www.youtube.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2022 08:05PM by Racer X.
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