After my dad died, my brother and sister got all of the good ones and I was left with a single shot .22 and a Mauser that doesn’t shoot right. It’s for protection from drunk rednecks and maybe a bobcat too close to the house or a rabid raccoon. I’ve narrowed it to a .22 or shotgun. I don’t want a pistol or rifle at this time - maybe later. It I get a shotgun, I don’t know whether to get a 12 or 20 gauge. I probably won’t do any bird hunting, but may shoot a deer. Cheap accessible ammo is a plus. I don’t care about collecting or trading or selling. Budget is $300 so that may be tough.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2022 06:08PM by Dennis S.

Sell the .22 and the Mauser, add in the $300 to the proceeds and buy an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine for when you want to use it for hunting, etc.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

I can't tell if this sarcasm, but this seems to me to be the wrong time and place to ask for a recommendation for a firearm for self-defense and varmint management.

Speedy is quick to prove my point.

On the chance that your request in genuine, I'll suggest 12ga pump shotgun (Remington 870 is what I use for work) with #4 buckshot.

Used inside a dwelling #4 buck will still penetrate a lot of drywall, but not as much as 00.

Common to popular folk lore, you still have to aim a shotgun at close range.

Spread varies slightly by ammo brand, but at 10' from an 18" bbl, the shortest bbl for a firearm to be classified a rifle or shotgun, is approximately 2".


I posted this much only as a short response to what I believe may be an honest question, not to rile or irritate anti-gun members.

Any umbrage directed my way is no factor, but it's not a hope or intention to upset anyone.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

The question is legit. I never bought a gun because my brother always had one I could use and extra money went to guitars.

If it's really legit, then you want a weapon that could best protect you during a zombie onslaught. The pump action 12 gauge will lay waste to the most robust flesheater while doubling as ample, effective home defense. Build quality and warranty matter.

Quote
Dennis S
The question is legit. I never bought a gun because my brother always had one I could use and extra money went to guitars.

Can you hunt for deer with "slugs" in a shotgun there. I know in some states it is. Here you need a rifle to shoot deer.

Quote
Dennis S
After my dad died, my brother and sister got all of the good ones and I was left with a single shot .22 and a Mauser that doesn’t shoot right. It’s for protection from drunk rednecks and maybe a bobcat too close to the house or a rabid raccoon. I’ve narrowed it to a .22 or shotgun. I don’t want a pistol or rifle at this time - maybe later. It I get a shotgun, I don’t know whether to get a 12 or 20 gauge. I probably won’t do any bird hunting, but may shoot a deer. Cheap accessible ammo is a plus. I don’t care about collecting or trading or selling. Budget is $300 so that may be tough.

I'll PM you my opinions to avoid the @#$%& contingent led by Speedy...

I've helped 3-4 people on the forum select firearms over the last 20 years.

---

Paul F.
-----
A sword never kills anybody; it is a tool in the killer's hand. - Lucius Annaeus Seneca c. 5 BC - 65 AD
----
Good is the enemy of Excellent. Talent is not necessary for Excellence.
Persistence is necessary for Excellence. And Persistence is a Decision.
--

--

--
Eureka, CA

depends which subway lines you ride...





(little NYC humor there)
(it was either this or a 'scattergun vs the rats and pigeons' joke)

Quote
Speedy
Sell the .22 and the Mauser, add in the $300 to the proceeds and buy an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine for when you want to use it for hunting, etc.

I gave up hunting 40 years ago but still know plenty that do. No one I know of uses a frickin' AR type anything to actually hunt with. My Dad used to laugh at those who claimed it was for hunting. He was one of the most avid hunters I ever knew. He always relied on a high quality bolt action rifle for deer hunting.

I grew up around guns but was also taught gun safety. Dad was awarded a Marksman medal during WWII. Dad never killed any game that we didn't eat, it was never a sport to him and never a trophy hunter.

---

Grateful11




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2022 09:54PM by Grateful11.

A couple of nights ago, an 80 year old man working the counter of a convenience store in Norco, CA was faced with an armed robber who came in carrying an assault weapon (stolen) and pointed it towards the man. The guy behind the counter picked up a shotgun and shot the guy. The bandit ran out to the parking lot yelling, "He shot my arm off!" In the parking lot was the stolen car and his 3 bandit companions, also with stolen weapons. All four of them were arrested at the local hospital where they took the wounded one. Apparently he is alive and will be booked when he is released from the hospital. The others are already in jail.

The 80 year old was himself taken for medical treatment and receive 3 stents to help his heart work, and was back at work yesterday.

We do not know at this time whether the guy's arm really was shot off, but a lot of television viewers have been laughing at the wounded robber and the recording of his screaming.

Bottom line: You don't have to like the idea of widespread gun ownership or the idea that criminals use guns to intimidate other people to make the decision to own a firearm for self protection. I support a ban on high power semiautomatic rifles for everybody except law enforcement and the military, but until we get it and enforce it, maybe the shotgun behind the counter is a legitimate recourse.

I forgot- the likelyhood of shooting a feral hog is high.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/04/2022 09:40PM by Dennis S.

Quote
kj

Quote
Dennis S
The question is legit. I never bought a gun because my brother always had one I could use and extra money went to guitars.

Can you hunt for deer with "slugs" in a shotgun there. I know in some states it is. Here you need a rifle to shoot deer.

In MA deer hunting requires use of a shotgun with slugs during the regular season. No rifles allowed. There are separate bow and primitive firearms seasons for deer.

Slugs are OK in Arkansas.

Remington 700 .270 for game hunting and Browning 12 Gauge Semi-Auto is what I went with.

Quote
Dennis S
I forgot- the likelyhood of shooting a feral hog is high.

Then you want an AR-15. Once they are rounded up in a pen, slap on that high capacity magazine and blast away.

---

Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

Hunting and self protecting are typically two different guns. For small game, the AR-15 is ideal, Bobcat, raccoons, the AR is a solid choice. But for home protection a 12 ga shotgun is far better. Something compact is nice for the home, Kel Tek KSG shot gun perhaps.

I would not use the .22 caliber rifle for hunting, it really lacks the stopping power for a decent sized bobcat and really more of a target or range rifle.

Quote
btfc
Remington 700 .270 for game hunting and Browning 12 Gauge Semi-Auto is what I went with.

Solid choices. That Remmigton being a bit more powerful than a little AR rifle butt as a bolt action, slower shooting rate. The 12 ga semi auto makes up for it. Anyone who risks breaking into your home will get removed with a mop

For home protection, I'm more in the 20 gauge camp. lighter weight, easier to maneuver in the confined quarters of a house, and still has both stopping power and the heart-stopping sound of a pump action, but it won't take out all the interior walls along the way.

Perhaps a Savage Arms 320, comes with an 18" barrel and a pistol grip.

---

“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

Pistol Grip Pump! (on my lap at all times...)

Home Defense...

20 Ga side by side or over under shotgun. Bird shot and then slug. Light kick, bird shot won't go through drywall, won't kill a human unless you're really close. Also staring into the barrel is a pee your pants moment for Bad Guys.

Or... Handgun - .38 or .40 double action revolver with a mixed cylinder and 4" barrel (snubbies are useless). Empty (hammer), bird shot, bird shot, Glaser safety slugs after that. None of the rounds will go through a wall.

Hunting... depends what you are hunting and what the laws are. Pump action 12 ga is good for just about anything at close range. 3-06 bolt action for scoped rifle for longer range.

Apocalypse... sneak up on someone kitted out like a cosplayer, hit them over the head, and take their food and water.

To stir the pot; be an agent provocateur...

The root motivation - and justification; conscious or subconscious - for gun ownership is FEAR.
- Fear of the “bad guy”
- Fear of the “others”
- Fear of all unknowns

This fear is expressed at three progressively obsessive states:
1. Caution: They might come!
2. Fear-manifest: They are coming!
3. Paranoia: They are here!


There are also ancillary, fear-related supporting motivations:
- Machismo/manliness - Fear of appearing weak, effeminate
- Peer pressure - Fear of ostricization, being excluded

"Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal"

"Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense"

"Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime"

"Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens"

"Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions"

[www.hsph.harvard.edu]

Guns are better for hunting than negotiation, etc. though. It quells the fear of being without elk meat. The fear of being pheasantless.

Quote
Speedy
Sell the .22 and the Mauser, add in the $300 to the proceeds and buy an AR-15 with a high capacity magazine for when you want to use it for hunting, etc.

Didn’t Racer here on the Forum defend Ar15 for hunting?

Damn. All this gun talk is makin' me antsy....
I may have to get another clip (or 2) for "Lit'l Jimmy", my 40+ year old, 007esque, Walther PPK/S .380.
Clearly the two clips I have surely aren't going to be enough, based on this thread.


.22-wise, that Ruger 10/22 is a good call.... if you're a decent marksman; but as the regulars have noted, shotguns may provide you more flexibility when it comes to dealing w/ your entire list of prospective threats. We've been in a fairly dense metro area, pretty much forever, so shotguns aren't much of thing around here.... well, except for those pesky Menendez bros awhile back, which didn't work out well for anyone.

I had a fleeting thought ~40 years back (somewhat contrary to belty's comment), and bought a S&W Model 66, .357 magnum snubby (at the same Santa Monica Big 5 Sporting Goods store that Lyle and Eric would eventually go shopping at). As to snubbies being useless; belty's right if you try to shoot anything .357 magnum in it, but my thought was that it would be good for lighter .38 special loads. That turned out to be correct, but even though it's a "snubby", it's not small, or light, or easily/readily concealable by any stretch, so after 3-4 trips to the range, I ordered the Walther from Turner's.

BTW, as a true precursor to MRF form, Big 5 had that S&W snubby already marked down when they had one of their (famous) "20% off all firearms" sales, so the snubby was a great deal. Then, again true to MRF form, Turner's ran a 15% off sale during the original California "mandatory waiting/cooling off period", so I cancelled the Walther's original purchase transaction, and re-bought it, which necessitated having to restart the cooling off period to get the add'l 15% off.

Currently, you might want to check out some of the "guns for sale" sites, as may of 'em have pretty good deals on used "mainstream" guns. You'll likely need to go thru a local (legally licensed) gun dealer, which may add ~$50 to the transaction, though check w/ the selling dealer, as they may have a viable connection near you, that may save you a chunk of the extra fee.
Good luck.


Or maybe you can get a deal on a lightly used "multi-purpose" gun....



==

I had a fleeting thought ~40 years back (somewhat contrary to belty's comment), and bought a S&W Model 66, .357 magnum snubby


Though Dennis is not interested in a handgun, I found this tangent interesting.

The Smith Model 66 'snubby' is a stainless steel revolver with a 2.5" bbl and a round butt, compared to the squared off versions most people might be familiar with.

With practice, it's very serviceable with 357 ammo, at the range it's intended to be used for, typically under 10 and under, which is a generous distance inside the homes of mere mortals.

I can easily keep all six rounds inside the 'coke bottle' K5 at 15yds, but I'd call that a bit outside the weapons envelope for that gun.

Still, it's fun to shoot.

For a carry weapon, I had a Model 2.5" 19 (same as the 66 but non-stainless) fitted with a 4" bbl.

This increased the accuracy noticeable, partially due to less 'muzzle flip' and longer sight radius.

The shorter bbl version wasn't 'aimed' so much as pointed.

The 19 was less noticeable under a shirt as the gun butt was what really printed through clothing.

For what it's work, I found the PPK in .380 to be a neat firearm, but it wasn't much fun to shoot compared to a Mauser HSc, and for a self-defense carry gun it was the absolute minimum and not that dependable a caliber in my opinion.

If one is forced to use lethal force for the preservation of their or another's life, it needs to be capable of reliably stopping the threat with a minimum of shots fired, whether handgun, rifle, or shotgun.

The defender needs to be able to point and hit the attacker, fast and efficiently, without going through some escalation of ammo.

Using a lethal round that won't kill anybody is ludicrous.

In that case, don't use conventional ammo, load the 12ga with bean bags.

They're considered 'less lethal' if that's how someone feels about self-defense.

The bottom line is stopping the attacker, preventing them from harming oneself or the person or persons he or she is charged with protecting.

It's ugly, but the truth is - sometimes one has to take a life to save a life.

For a defender, stopping the threat should always be the only goal, with the exception of a failure to stop scenario, or in the role of a sniper.

Sometimes that involves a bad guy's death.

Those who can't reconcile that and can't take the time to train well, shouldn't have a firearm.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.

Quote
RAMd®d
It's ugly, but the truth is - sometimes one has to take a life to save a life.

For a defender, stopping the threat should always be the only goal, with the exception of a failure to stop scenario, or in the role of a sniper.

Sometimes that involves a bad guy's death.

"Most purported self-defense gun uses are gun uses in escalating arguments, and are both socially undesirable and illegal"

"Firearms are used far more often to intimidate than in self-defense"

"Guns in the home are used more often to intimidate intimates than to thwart crime"

"Few criminals are shot by decent law-abiding citizens"

"Self-defense gun use is rare and not more effective at preventing injury than other protective actions"

[www.hsph.harvard.edu]

But hey, “it’s fun to shoot”, and that’s what’s really important. Right?

But hey, “it’s fun to shoot”, and that’s what’s really important. Right?


It is, when I'm the one doing the shooting, and not breaking any laws with my firearms.

---

I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.