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Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: samintx
Date: August 13, 2022 08:23AM
CNC says he is on a ventilator and will lose one eye. So sad.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: SDGuy
Date: August 13, 2022 10:02AM
Quote
samintx
CNC says he is on a ventilator and will lose one eye. So sad.

agree smiley
Also, though, given who he is and the known threats he faces, I'm surprised there wasn't more security (say, even just one bodyguard conveniently stationed nearby whose sole job is to be on the lookout for something like this).
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: gadje
Date: August 13, 2022 10:37AM
Religion brings the worst in people.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 13, 2022 10:44AM
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
samintx
CNC says he is on a ventilator and will lose one eye. So sad.

agree smiley
Also, though, given who he is and the known threats he faces, I'm surprised there wasn't more security (say, even just one bodyguard conveniently stationed nearby whose sole job is to be on the lookout for something like this).

Ombligo posted a link to this CNN report on the attack - [edition.cnn.com] - in the first topic on this. The conference apparently nixed additional security, didn't want to create a separation between attendees and speakers.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Diana
Date: August 13, 2022 11:13AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
samintx
CNC says he is on a ventilator and will lose one eye. So sad.

agree smiley
Also, though, given who he is and the known threats he faces, I'm surprised there wasn't more security (say, even just one bodyguard conveniently stationed nearby whose sole job is to be on the lookout for something like this).

Ombligo posted a link to this CNN report on the attack - [edition.cnn.com] - in the first topic on this. The conference apparently nixed additional security, didn't want to create a separation between attendees and speakers.

THIS speaker had/has a religious fatwa against him for YEARS and there was no security? This is something that is taken seriously in the Muslim world and rarely is revoked (as if it can be?). Eventually this was going to happen. They didn’t have to put him behind bulletproof glass but at least have someone unobtrusive posted.

If the point was they didn’t want to shine a spotlight and cause folks to not want to come there to speak in the future, how does it look now?
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 13, 2022 11:19AM
Quote
Diana
Quote
JoeH
Quote
SDGuy
Quote
samintx
CNC says he is on a ventilator and will lose one eye. So sad.

agree smiley
Also, though, given who he is and the known threats he faces, I'm surprised there wasn't more security (say, even just one bodyguard conveniently stationed nearby whose sole job is to be on the lookout for something like this).

Ombligo posted a link to this CNN report on the attack - [edition.cnn.com] - in the first topic on this. The conference apparently nixed additional security, didn't want to create a separation between attendees and speakers.

THIS speaker had/has a religious fatwa against him for YEARS and there was no security? This is something that is taken seriously in the Muslim world and rarely is revoked (as if it can be?). Eventually this was going to happen. They didn’t have to put him behind bulletproof glass but at least have someone unobtrusive posted.

If the point was they didn’t want to shine a spotlight and cause folks to not want to come there to speak in the future, how does it look now?

Oh, I agree. But I have been exposed to this attitude and disconnect from reality among some academics and related types for decades working at a university. Short of getting struck with a clue-by-four, they just don't get it. And some even then will be in denial.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2022 11:20AM by JoeH.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: August 13, 2022 11:24AM
Quote
JoeH
...The conference apparently nixed additional security, didn't want to create a separation between attendees and speakers.

The specific things that they opted not to do were bag-checks and running every guest through a metal detector.

These things are not ordinary parts of a small literary conference.

There was security. There was a fence and a gated checkpoint. The attacker was admitted past security because he purchased a ticket and got a car-pass.

There was a police office standing guard at the stage. He moved too late to prevent the attack.

The issue of metal detectors and searches was raised by a former employee taking advantage of the situation to smear his former employer. These measures were not recommended by security professionals.

People rush to condemn institutions in situations like this, but there's no evidence that a lapse in security facilitated this attack, or that treating their guests like criminals would have prevented it.







Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2022 11:30AM by Tiangou.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Diana
Date: August 13, 2022 11:51AM
I’m not saying to treat guests like criminals, but when you insist on looking at something that is distinctly NOT Western with a Western viewpoint then these things will happen. Here, a threat to someone is taken seriously for a bit and when enough time has passed and nothing happens, it is discounting and eventually dismissed. After all, it was just words. We see it every day.

In other parts of the world, especially if it’s a religious leader saying it, once it is issued it stays. Folks feel they have an obligation to carry it out, regardless of their personal safety. After all, it’s what their god wanted, and they will be rewarded either here on earth or in “heaven”.

Rushdie will be in danger of losing his life for the rest of his life. Whoever kills him will be celebrated. And that’s just how it is. Ignoring this fact leads to people getting hurt or killed. Sorry folks, but the world is not the same as you want it to be.

The university is comprised of people. Sometimes those people are ignorant and sometimes they are willfully stupid. Sometimes they have a clue. How much security was there? How close was the audience? Most speakers are up on stages or otherwise “separated” from the audience. To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 13, 2022 11:56AM
Quote
Tiangou
These things are not ordinary parts of a small literary conference.

Rushdie is NOT an "ordinary" small literary conference speaker.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: August 13, 2022 11:57AM
Quote
Diana
To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.

If the threat was still so obviously imminent, why didn't Rushdie request more security?



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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 13, 2022 12:01PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Diana
To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.

If the threat was still so obviously imminent, why didn't Rushdie request more security?

A. Do we know he didn't?

B. Blaming the victim?
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: August 13, 2022 12:07PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Diana
To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.

If the threat was still so obviously imminent, why didn't Rushdie request more security?

A. Do we know he didn't?

B. Blaming the victim?

Because he attended.

B. BS.



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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 13, 2022 12:47PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Diana
To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.

If the threat was still so obviously imminent, why didn't Rushdie request more security?

A. Do we know he didn't?

B. Blaming the victim?

Because he attended.

B. BS.

huh smiley

The fact that he attended is sufficient to prove to you that he didn't request more security??

False dilemma – two alternative statements are given as the only possible options when, in reality, there are more.
- He attended, therefore he didn't request more security
- If he had requested, and it was not provided, he would not have attended

How about:
- He mistakenly believed there would be sufficient security, and consequently did not request more
- He did request more security, was denied, but decided to speak anyway
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: JoeH
Date: August 13, 2022 01:09PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
JoeH
...The conference apparently nixed additional security, didn't want to create a separation between attendees and speakers.

The specific things that they opted not to do were bag-checks and running every guest through a metal detector.

These things are not ordinary parts of a small literary conference.

There was security. There was a fence and a gated checkpoint. The attacker was admitted past security because he purchased a ticket and got a car-pass.

There was a police office standing guard at the stage. He moved too late to prevent the attack.

The issue of metal detectors and searches was raised by a former employee taking advantage of the situation to smear his former employer. These measures were not recommended by security professionals.

People rush to condemn institutions in situations like this, but there's no evidence that a lapse in security facilitated this attack, or that treating their guests like criminals would have prevented it.

And you know all of this how? The CNN article mentions getting this information from at least a couple sources connected with the conference. It sounds like they dud some due diligence to make certain they were not repeating something from a disgruntled ex-employee.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: mattkime
Date: August 13, 2022 01:24PM
I think its pretty clear there was a security mistake, but the only way to judge if there was an actual judgement error is to have full info about how he's assessed threats in the past.

Lets hope he survives with minimal injuries despite the grim prognosis, and can thoroughly access the situation himself and how he wishes to navigate the world.



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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: August 13, 2022 01:40PM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
JoeH
...The conference apparently nixed additional security, didn't want to create a separation between attendees and speakers.

The specific things that they opted not to do were bag-checks and running every guest through a metal detector.

These things are not ordinary parts of a small literary conference.

There was security. There was a fence and a gated checkpoint. The attacker was admitted past security because he purchased a ticket and got a car-pass.

There was a police office standing guard at the stage. He moved too late to prevent the attack.

The issue of metal detectors and searches was raised by a former employee taking advantage of the situation to smear his former employer. These measures were not recommended by security professionals.

People rush to condemn institutions in situations like this, but there's no evidence that a lapse in security facilitated this attack, or that treating their guests like criminals would have prevented it.

And you know all of this how?

Daily Beast interviewed the former employee.

Various news stories have provided details.

And I have attended literary events and conventions, including a few where Rushdie was speaking. These are not ordinary security measures at literary events.

With no present threats of violence, there's no reason to treat all visitors like criminals. Normalizing violence against innocents creates a criminal state. If you wanna live like that, feel free to move to a gulag.

Me, I wanna live some place with a few freedoms.







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2022 01:44PM by Tiangou.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: August 13, 2022 03:31PM
Quote
Tiangou
With no present threats of violence, there's no reason to treat all visitors like criminals.

"No present threats of violence"? The fact that Rushdie WAS attacked, clearly demonstrates violence WAS a threat.

"Treat all visitors like criminals"? Where is THAT line drawn? If there's a bag check at the conference? If your bags are Xrayed at the airport? If the airport gate attendant requires you to show your ticket? If your state requires you to display a license plate on your car to show you've paid your registration?

Quote
Tiangou
Normalizing violence against innocents creates a criminal state. If you wanna live like that, feel free to move to a gulag.

Could you please elaborate as to WHICH security actions discussed above "normalize violence against innocents", WHAT violence they inflict, and HOW they do so.

Could you also please elaborate on HOW those actions "create a criminal state".
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: August 13, 2022 05:35PM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Tiangou
With no present threats of violence, there's no reason to treat all visitors like criminals.

"No present threats of violence"? The fact that Rushdie WAS attacked, clearly demonstrates violence WAS a threat.

"Treat all visitors like criminals"? Where is THAT line drawn? If there's a bag check at the conference? If your bags are Xrayed at the airport? If the airport gate attendant requires you to show your ticket? If your state requires you to display a license plate on your car to show you've paid your registration?

Quote
Tiangou
Normalizing violence against innocents creates a criminal state. If you wanna live like that, feel free to move to a gulag.

Could you please elaborate as to WHICH security actions discussed above "normalize violence against innocents", WHAT violence they inflict, and HOW they do so.

Could you also please elaborate on HOW those actions "create a criminal state".

This is really stupid and I'm done with it.



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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: samintx
Date: August 13, 2022 05:47PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Diana
To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.

If the threat was still so obviously imminent, why didn't Rushdie request more security?

He did.
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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: August 13, 2022 06:03PM
Quote
samintx
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Diana
To ignore Rushdie’s circumstances was to invite this to happen.

If the threat was still so obviously imminent, why didn't Rushdie request more security?

He did.

He didn't.

The organizers requested a police presence. A state trooper and a deputy were assigned.

Rushdie is known for requesting LESS security at events. He has said many times that it offends him and makes him uncomfortable.

He is a proponent of free speech, which doesn't work particularly well when encumbered.



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Re: Rushdie to lose an eye
Posted by: RAMd®d
Date: August 14, 2022 03:35AM
Rushdie is known for requesting LESS security at events. He has said many times that it offends him and makes him uncomfortable.


How many times has he been attacked since the fatwas was 'issued'?

Once, in 33 years.

There are reports that he once complained of too much security.

Another that someone who worked with him for four years stating he'd never once requested a security detail nor was known to have brought a security detail with him.

From what I've read, he went from being in hiding with a 24/7 security detail, to living more freely in later years.

Why not, as he received threats but had never been attacked.

There is only one person to blame — the assailant.

Rushdie could have demanded additional security and/or provided his own detail.

We don't know that he did, and reports of his recent lifestyle and past statements would support the statements that he didn't.

Making observations of what he could have done to prevent this is not blaming the victim.

Blaming the victim is blaming the victim.

Maybe Rushdie will address this sometime down the road.

Maybe an investigation will show the security detail was playing Candy Crush and were actually to blame.

But they're cops so let's blame them anyway, just in case it's true.

There is one person to blame for the attack — the attacker.

Or we can blame Khomeini.


In a memoir about his time in hiding, Rushdie expressed discomfort at the high levels of security at US airports in New Jersey and Denver when he arrived to speak. But in recent years, he had lived more freely and insisted he should not be constantly surveilled and protected by security guards.

[www.ndtv.com]


Salman Rushdie said he felt his life was "relatively normal" in an interview conducted just two weeks before he was stabbed on stage in the US...

Stern magazine had planned to publish its interview with the author next week, but brought it forward after the stabbing attack.

The magazine described how Mr Rushdie had arrived for the interview with no security at all, appeared relaxed as he said the Iranian fatwa was decades old.


[news.yahoo.com]






I am that Masked Man.

All you can do, is all you can do.

There’s trouble — it's time to play the sound of my people.

Your boos mean nothing to me, I've seen what you cheer for.

Insisting on your rights without acknowledging your responsibilities isn’t freedom, it’s adolescence.

I've been to the edge of the map, and there be monsters.

We are a government of laws, not men.

Everybody counts or nobody counts.

When a good man is hurt,
all who would be called good
must suffer with him.

You and I have memories longer than the road that stretches out ahead.

There is no safety for honest men except
by believing all possible evil of evil men.

We don’t do focus groups. They just ensure that you don’t offend anyone, and produce bland inoffensive products. —Sir Jonathan Ive

An armed society is a polite society.
And hope is a lousy defense.

You make me pull, I'll put you down.

I *love* SIGs. It's Glocks I hate.
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