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A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 25, 2022 09:53AM
I am encouraged then hear Dan Abrams (the attorney) downplay DOJ’s win over 45 ultimately. How is this possible? Evil winning over the Rule of Law? I guess some who should know are being realistic but it hurts me to even think he will just get his little hands slapped and then a Republican president pardon.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2022 09:54AM by samintx.
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 25, 2022 10:18AM
Huh?



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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 25, 2022 11:25AM
If found guilty in New York or Georgia, that is not subject to a presidential pardon. He has been such a PITA to the Republican's, I can even see a future GOP president not giving him a pardon to avoid the uproar. The real question will be what happens if he somehow gets elected again and pardon's himself?



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 25, 2022 11:41AM
Quote
Ombligo
If found guilty in New York or Georgia, that is not subject to a presidential pardon. He has been such a PITA to the Republican's, I can even see a future GOP president not giving him a pardon to avoid the uproar. The real question will be what happens if he somehow gets elected again and pardon's himself?

For federal charges he won't need a future GOP president to pardon him since when he was still president he was probably sitting in his golf cart one day and decided in his own mind to give himself a pardon for any future federally illegal acts. (Just like he claims the ability to declassify documents even if only in his own mind thinking about it.)



e pluribus unum
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: September 25, 2022 11:51AM
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Ombligo
If found guilty in New York or Georgia, that is not subject to a presidential pardon. He has been such a PITA to the Republican's, I can even see a future GOP president not giving him a pardon to avoid the uproar. The real question will be what happens if he somehow gets elected again and pardon's himself?

For federal charges he won't need a future GOP president to pardon him since when he was still president he was probably sitting in his golf cart one day and decided in his own mind to give himself a pardon for any future federally illegal acts. (Just like he claims the ability to declassify documents even if only in his own mind thinking about it.)

I have no doubt that secret pardons for himself and his whole family were written long before he left the White House and remain locked away somewhere for a "surprise" revelation.



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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: gadje
Date: September 25, 2022 12:07PM
Quote
Tiangou
...

I have no doubt that secret pardons for himself and his whole family were written long before he left the White House and remain locked away somewhere for a "surprise" revelation.

No, I doubt it. He will say he can pardon someone just by thinking about it.
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Buzz
Date: September 25, 2022 12:19PM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Ombligo
If found guilty in New York or Georgia, that is not subject to a presidential pardon. He has been such a PITA to the Republican's, I can even see a future GOP president not giving him a pardon to avoid the uproar. The real question will be what happens if he somehow gets elected again and pardon's himself?

For federal charges he won't need a future GOP president to pardon him since when he was still president he was probably sitting in his golf cart one day and decided in his own mind to give himself a pardon for any future federally illegal acts. (Just like he claims the ability to declassify documents even if only in his own mind thinking about it.)

I have no doubt that secret pardons for himself and his whole family were written long before he left the White House and remain locked away somewhere for a "surprise" revelation.

I'm of the persuasion that self-pardons are not permissible, and that even the Orange Menace's personal SCOTUS wouldn't uphold one.
==
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: September 25, 2022 12:29PM
Quote
Buzz
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
Ted King
Quote
Ombligo
If found guilty in New York or Georgia, that is not subject to a presidential pardon. He has been such a PITA to the Republican's, I can even see a future GOP president not giving him a pardon to avoid the uproar. The real question will be what happens if he somehow gets elected again and pardon's himself?

For federal charges he won't need a future GOP president to pardon him since when he was still president he was probably sitting in his golf cart one day and decided in his own mind to give himself a pardon for any future federally illegal acts. (Just like he claims the ability to declassify documents even if only in his own mind thinking about it.)

I have no doubt that secret pardons for himself and his whole family were written long before he left the White House and remain locked away somewhere for a "surprise" revelation.

I'm of the persuasion that self-pardons are not permissible, and that even the Orange Menace's personal SCOTUS wouldn't uphold one.
==

Which is why they're locked away and were not produced preemptively. His advisors were just barely influential enough to convince him not to test those waters too early.



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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Acer
Date: September 25, 2022 12:49PM
He'll run out the clock cheerfully sitting on his golden toilet. Legal action, sham campaigns, post hoc pardons the he pretends were pre hoc, manipulating sympathetic judges, the kitchen sink. etc. It's what people like him do, and the powers that be will let him, because they want the option to run out the clock if they are called up.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2022 12:52PM by Acer.
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Buzz
Date: September 25, 2022 01:01PM
Which is why they're locked away and were not produced preemptively. His advisors were just barely influential enough to convince him not to test those waters too early.

How 'bout we just put the Orange Tabby Menace, and his first litter of adult @#$%& in a canoe, and drop 'em off where the missing Malaysian flight went down. I'd be nice about it, and give 'em one paddle to share, and one granola bar. Oh, and a filter bottle to share for their pee. The kids would also each get a pocket knife. Give 'em a couple of months to look for those pardons....
==
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: wave rider
Date: September 25, 2022 01:40PM
Quote
Wikipaedia
Federal pardons issued by the president apply only to federal offenses; they do not apply to state or local offenses or private civil offenses. Federal pardons also do not apply to cases of impeachment. Pardons for state crimes are handled by governors or a state pardon board.[5]
[en.wikipedia.org]

Seems like even secret pardons would be ineffectual for state charges, I'm thinking NY and Georgia.



=wr=
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: hal
Date: September 25, 2022 02:12PM
Secret pardons?? Who comes up with this stuff?
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: GGD
Date: September 25, 2022 02:55PM
Quote
hal
Secret pardons?? Who comes up with this stuff?

I wonder if they were in the Mar-a-Lago safe and now in the DOJ's hands.

And if he did include his kids, I'll be that once again Tiffany got left out.
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Re: A coin toss on 45’s ultimate outcome
Posted by: Michael
Date: September 25, 2022 06:33PM
He could get a GA pardon. Kemp is substantially ahead of Abrams in recent polling. He'll be term-limited out after this election, should he win. Of course, Trump wasn't a Kemp fan. It'll be interesting to see how Trump might discover that Kemp's a worthwhile governor if he gets convicted!
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