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And now Italy
Posted by: gadje
Date: September 25, 2022 05:45PM
ROME — Italian voters appeared to shatter several precedents Sunday, backing parties that are now set to form the country’s farthest-right government since the fall of Mussolini, led by its first-ever female prime minister.

As always, a complimentary link

[wapo.st]
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 25, 2022 07:18PM
Crap.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: September 25, 2022 07:30PM
Worked out so well the last time.

[allthatsinteresting.com]



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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Steve G.
Date: September 25, 2022 07:36PM
Her coalition partners Berlusconi and Salvini are backers and pals of Putin. She isn't. They both want to be in charge, so look for rough times.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 25, 2022 08:54PM
Nationalism is appealing to a lot of voters in every country. The fascist wing of nationalists usually consider themselves to be ethnic nationalists. Religious nationalists have a big role, too, but lot of religious nationalists also consider themselves to be ethnic nationalists.

I consider myself to be a cultural transnationalist and, unfortunately, that puts me at odds with many nationalists at a fundamental ideological level. How do you convince a nationalist that nationalism is a myopic way of looking at us bands of great apes cooperating like crazy to build wonderful things and make our lives better (many of us anyway) and we could keep building but instead we let nationalist impulses lead to massive destruction of human life and beneficial structures and machines.

Sorry for that rant. So anyway, yeah, ethnic nationalism is especially active in Italy and that is disheartening.



e pluribus unum



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2022 07:19AM by Ted King.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Rolando
Date: September 25, 2022 09:05PM
I wonder how much indirect funding (Like the Putin to NRA to Republicans) is coming from Putin.

Paid off handsomely in the USA.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 26, 2022 05:35AM
What did Facist do for Italy in the past? What is wrong with people?
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: September 26, 2022 05:43AM
Quote
samintx
What did Facist do for Italy in the past? What is wrong with people?

The trains ran on time...


Fascism arises out of fear. People want it easy, they want neighbors who look and act like them, they fear the change and want to blame outsiders. In Germany, it was the Jews. Today in Europe it is the refugees. In the US it is Hispanics and of course the deep divide in politics.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Ted King
Date: September 26, 2022 07:38AM
Quote
Ombligo
Quote
samintx
What did Facist do for Italy in the past? What is wrong with people?

The trains ran on time...


Fascism arises out of fear. People want it easy, they want neighbors who look and act like them, they fear the change and want to blame outsiders. In Germany, it was the Jews. Today in Europe it is the refugees. In the US it is Hispanics and of course the deep divide in politics.

Well put. Fascism arises out of fear. I think a lot of the fear comes from economic uncertainty or at least the perception of economic uncertainty as well as from a sort of feeling of existential threat to their cultural identity.
And you are spot on about fascists using those fears to generate blame aimed at those that are "different".



e pluribus unum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2022 08:06AM by Ted King.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 26, 2022 08:46AM
Italy has had a conservative streak for a while. Berlusconi was Trump before Trump.



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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: Sam3
Date: September 26, 2022 09:01AM
Didn't Italy also have the greatest amount of refugees coming from Africa?



The arts are not luxuries but assets that give way more than they cost.
--Ronald Tucker on YouTube

A mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work if it is not open.
--Frank Zappa
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: voodoopenguin
Date: September 26, 2022 09:35AM
Quote
Ombligo
The trains ran on time...

Nopes says Snopes

[www.snopes.com]

Paul
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: abevilac
Date: September 26, 2022 10:14AM
My cousin In Italy said this: ho gia i nomi per il governo. deve solo aspettare che li scarcerino.

Which Google translates to: I already have the names for the government. She just has to wait for them to be released.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 26, 2022 10:28AM
Quote
voodoopenguin
Quote
Ombligo
The trains ran on time...

Nopes says Snopes

[www.snopes.com]

Paul

Well of course it isn't a fact, but it is a rationalization that has been used for decades to justify the early support for Mussolini and his government. But it is the view through rose colored glasses just like that of those in the US who look back to the 1950s as a wonderful time. It may have been if you were white, middle class and male, not so much for others.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: gadje
Date: September 26, 2022 11:08AM
It may have been if you were white, middle class and male,

isn't that all that matters these days?
</sarcasm>
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: samintx
Date: September 26, 2022 11:21AM
Quote
Sam3
Didn't Italy also have the greatest amount of refugees coming from Africa?

Yep. Boatloads.
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Re: And now Italy
Posted by: macphanatic
Date: September 30, 2022 06:43AM
Quote
Sam3
Didn't Italy also have the greatest amount of refugees coming from Africa?

Yes. And apparently a significant increase in crime.
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