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What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: gadje
Date: September 26, 2022 03:38PM
Some say he was a whistleblower, other say he leaked info. What is your point of view?
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: cbelt3
Date: September 26, 2022 03:44PM
The use of 'classified' to hide war crimes is the antithesis of what our democracy should stand for. The fact that it has 'always happened' does not make it right. The fact that those who shone the light of day onto those crimes received more punishment than the criminals themselves had a chilling effect on future whistleblowers.

Disobeying an illegal order is something everyone hears about. But rarely does. And those who do are heroes to the truth. But suffer .
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: testcase
Date: September 26, 2022 04:08PM
Whistleblower / info leaker; no real difference as far as I'm concerned. He acted according to his conscious and ethics. SOMEBODY (preferably MANY somebodies) SHOULD be holding the "regular" and especially the "secret" government accountable for their misdeeds. When this DOESN'T happen, we wind up with the mess we've been in for DECADES. boink smiley old fogey smiley



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2022 04:09PM by testcase.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: mattkime
Date: September 26, 2022 04:37PM
I think we're better for what he did. I have mixed feelings on his new nationality...but what was he supposed to do?



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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: Rolando
Date: September 26, 2022 08:56PM
He will be remembered as a hero and patriot.

He should have been pardoned and brought home.
But instead we gave Putin a pawn.



San Antonio, TX (in the old city)


"All that is required for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
“Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented." - Eli Weisel

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt (1918)

"I don’t want to see religious bigotry in any form. It would disturb me if there was a wedding between the religious fundamentalists and the political right. The hard right has no interest in religion except to manipulate it." - Billy Graham 1981

"Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise" - Barry Goldwater
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 26, 2022 11:49PM
Quote
Rolando
He will be remembered as a hero and patriot.

He should have been pardoned and brought home.
But instead we gave Putin a pawn.

Nobody gives a crap about him. If he had stayed, he could have availed himself of the whistleblower protections. Yeah, he would have been arrested and had to await trial I'm sure. But damn Edward, you did take the documents. How much clarity would due-process have rendered? Who knows now, unless he comes back, which he should.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: Tiangou
Date: September 26, 2022 11:56PM
Quote
vision63
If he had stayed, he could have availed himself of the whistleblower protections...

Nope. The materials were presumptively not covered by whistleblower protections and if it were deemed otherwise by a court he still failed to follow protocol so blew his only chance at that argument.



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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 27, 2022 12:52AM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
vision63
If he had stayed, he could have availed himself of the whistleblower protections...

Nope. The materials were presumptively not covered by whistleblower protections and if it were deemed otherwise by a court he still failed to follow protocol so blew his only chance at that argument.

The whole point of court would be to render an interpretive opinion on those laws. If he's not willing to undergo the rigors of that potential examination, then why take the documents at all? Brave enough to take the materials, but not brave enough to undergo the scrutiny.

Create all sorts of doubts, fears and uncertainty during a crucial election cycle was ridiculous. We had guys riffing off thatshit like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi who's entire goal to was to defeat Democrats by dissuading people from voting for them.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/27/2022 12:54AM by vision63.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: September 27, 2022 08:11AM
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
vision63
If he had stayed, he could have availed himself of the whistleblower protections...

Nope. The materials were presumptively not covered by whistleblower protections and if it were deemed otherwise by a court he still failed to follow protocol so blew his only chance at that argument.

Precedent?

"On January 3, 1973, Ellsberg was charged under the Espionage Act of 1917 along with other charges of theft and conspiracy, carrying a total maximum sentence of 115 years. Because of governmental misconduct and illegal evidence-gathering, and the defense by Leonard Boudin and Harvard Law School professor Charles Nesson, Judge William Matthew Byrne Jr. dismissed all charges against Ellsberg on May 11, 1973."

"...voiced support for WikiLeaks, Chelsea Manning, and Edward Snowden.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: dk62
Date: September 27, 2022 09:36AM
Should have been pardoned.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: JoeH
Date: September 27, 2022 10:05AM
Quote
vision63
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
vision63
If he had stayed, he could have availed himself of the whistleblower protections...

Nope. The materials were presumptively not covered by whistleblower protections and if it were deemed otherwise by a court he still failed to follow protocol so blew his only chance at that argument.

The whole point of court would be to render an interpretive opinion on those laws. If he's not willing to undergo the rigors of that potential examination, then why take the documents at all? Brave enough to take the materials, but not brave enough to undergo the scrutiny.

Create all sorts of doubts, fears and uncertainty during a crucial election cycle was ridiculous. We had guys riffing off thatshit like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi who's entire goal to was to defeat Democrats by dissuading people from voting for them.

You appear to be confusing Snowden with Assange. Snowden's leaks were in 2013, and as far as I know he did not put out anything during the election cycles you refer to.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: vision63
Date: September 27, 2022 10:56AM
Quote
JoeH
Quote
vision63
Quote
Tiangou
Quote
vision63
If he had stayed, he could have availed himself of the whistleblower protections...

Nope. The materials were presumptively not covered by whistleblower protections and if it were deemed otherwise by a court he still failed to follow protocol so blew his only chance at that argument.

The whole point of court would be to render an interpretive opinion on those laws. If he's not willing to undergo the rigors of that potential examination, then why take the documents at all? Brave enough to take the materials, but not brave enough to undergo the scrutiny.

Create all sorts of doubts, fears and uncertainty during a crucial election cycle was ridiculous. We had guys riffing off thatshit like Glenn Greenwald and Matt Taibbi who's entire goal to was to defeat Democrats by dissuading people from voting for them.

You appear to be confusing Snowden with Assange. Snowden's leaks were in 2013, and as far as I know he did not put out anything during the election cycles you refer to.

You're right, I switched up those guys.
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Re: What is your opinion about Snowden?
Posted by: NewtonMP2100
Date: September 27, 2022 06:42PM
....yellow...snow...



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I reject your reality and substitute my own!
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