Sorry if this is considered Click Bait...

[www.reuters.com]

Putin blasts West, says world faces most dangerous decade since WW2

I agree, as long as Putin is alive, it will be the most dangerous decade

Yes, and this is what most people suing for peace don’t understand.

As long as Putin and the current leadership exists, they will always remain a threat (though now that everyone realizes it, hopefully at worst that threat can be contained).

Russia needs a revolution. And whether you think a revolution is possible or Putin can be defeated, this is the best (and very realistic) opportunity to accomplish that. We have to pursue it to the end. Doing so does not mean risking nuclear war (that will never happen and Putin knows it) so throw that argument out the window.

We’ve got him by the balls and have a once in a lifetime opportunity to end this threat. It would be foolish to throw it away.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2022 06:30PM by Carnos Jax.

Just to clarify....Putin CAN be defeated. He doesn't have enough weapons or enough (motivated) soldiers. At this point, Russia will lose this war, it's academic, there is no way for him to win.

And since Russia will lose this war, Putin will be removed from power. This is a good thing. But an even better thing would be to remove the rest of the Russian leadership. I don't know for sure if that will happen.

The only thing that will torpedo any of this is if we give him a negotiated settlement. That can not happen. He cannot retain any Ukrainian territories, and Ukraine will have to be protected by NATO or have some other treaty with the West to protect it from future Russian aggression.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2022 06:41PM by Carnos Jax.

It's odd that Putin claims to be pursuing re-creation of the old Soviet Union while he most resembles a kleptoplutocratic Tsar. It took a revolution to bring down the Tsars, perhaps that is what it will take to oust him and his kleptoplutocratic associates.

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"In science it often happens that scientists say, 'You know that's a really good argument; my position is mistaken,' and then they would actually change their minds and you never hear that old view from them again. They really do it. It doesn't happen as often as it should, because scientists are human and change is sometimes painful. But it happens every day. I cannot recall the last time something like that happened in politics or religion." (1987) -- Carl Sagan

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davester
It's odd that Putin claims to be pursuing re-creation of the old Soviet Union while he most resembles a kleptoplutocratic Tsar. It took a revolution to bring down the Tsars, perhaps that is what it will take to oust him and his kleptoplutocratic associates.

It's been suggested in previous threads, this is something endemic to the Russian culture (the tendency towards brutal strongmen). Thus even if you have a revolution, they'll eventually end up in the same place. I don't know, sad if true.

"Russia, at the present time, is at a crossroad,"

"It is often said that the Cold War is over and the West has won it, that is only half true.

"Because what has happened is that the communists have been defeated but the ideas of freedom now are on trial.

"If they don't work there will be a reversion to not communism–which has failed–but what I call a new despotism, which would pose a mortal danger to the rest of the world.

"This is because it would be infected with the virus of Russian imperialism which of course has been a characteristic of Russian foreign policy for centuries."

--Richard Nixon, 1992

[www.newsweek.com]

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davester
It's odd that Putin claims to be pursuing re-creation of the old Soviet Union while he most resembles a kleptoplutocratic Tsar. It took a revolution to bring down the Tsars, perhaps that is what it will take to oust him and his kleptoplutocratic associates.

That ousting took the best part of a century, The Empire Must Die describes the last 15-20 years in an interesting way.

Russia a danger physically, tDump emotionally, physiologically to our country .

They had a chance to make it follow the historical legend of revolution in March, but Putie had been feeding them poop on the government run news channels since he retook the presidency in 2012.

It only takes about 3.5% of a populace to revolt to overthrow a government. Sadly, many of those that would involve themselves on that side have already fled from the country to avoid forced conscription.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

As long as a leader holds the military (the actual troops) they hold the power. If Joe Conscript is willing to fire on civilians, the civilians will not win. When a leader loses the troops, they lose power.

the issue Ukrain faces is that Russia could withdraw, regroup and strike again at will. They need Nato membership but I'm not sure that is politically feasible.

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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

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Ombligo
the issue Ukrain faces is that Russia could withdraw, regroup and strike again at will.

Yup, that’s why it’s somewhat critical that we make Putin go down now, while we still have him by the balls.

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Carnos Jax
Yup, that’s why it’s somewhat critical that we make Putin go down now, while we still have him by the balls.

What leverage do we have over Putin or the Russian government?

How is it at such an extreme that we "have him by the balls" ...?

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Ombligo
As long as a leader holds the military (the actual troops) they hold the power. If Joe Conscript is willing to fire on civilians, the civilians will not win.

Many times there is hope as the allegiance of troops wavers...



...and then...

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e pluribus unum

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Tiangou

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Carnos Jax
Yup, that’s why it’s somewhat critical that we make Putin go down now, while we still have him by the balls.

What leverage do we have over Putin or the Russian government?

How is it at such an extreme that we "have him by the balls" ...?

My logic here is that Russia has already lost this war, and when that becomes a formality, Putin one way or another will no longer be the leader of Russia. We just need to stay the course, and make sure Ukraine has the weapons it needs to see this to the end. Russia has neither the weapons, nor the motivated fighting force to win, so it’s just a matter of time before they lose.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2022 05:49PM by Carnos Jax.

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Tiangou

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Carnos Jax
Yup, that’s why it’s somewhat critical that we make Putin go down now, while we still have him by the balls.

What leverage do we have over Putin or the Russian government?

How is it at such an extreme that we "have him by the balls" ...?

This Nebula and Curiosity Stream video might help explain what Putin has going for and against both himself and The Federation.

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Carnos Jax
My logic here is that Russia has already lost this war, and when that becomes a formality, Putin one way or another will no longer be the leader of Russia. We just need to stay the course, and make sure Ukraine has the weapons it needs to see this to the end. Russia has neither the weapons, nor the motivated fighting force to win, so it’s just a matter of time before they lose.

I agree with your characterization, but I hope Europe can step in when Republicans eventually gain power and withdraw support from Ukraine. One of Putin's bets is that we won't be able to last due to internal fighting.

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I agree, it’s a damned strange thing. With no evidence at all, they wanted to invade Iraq for weapons of mass destruction. Yet with all the evidence in the world sparing them in the face, they want to lay down like a bunch of surrender monkeys in front of Russia’s aggression.

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mattkime

I agree with your characterization, but I hope Europe can step in when Republicans eventually gain power and withdraw support from Ukraine.

It's right on their doorstep (!!) and the Europeans appear to be doing a whole lot less than the U.S. to counter Putin.

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Carnos Jax
I agree, it’s a damned strange thing. With no evidence at all, they wanted to invade Iraq for weapons of mass destruction. Yet with all the evidence in the world sparing them in the face, they want to lay down like a bunch of surrender monkeys in front of Russia’s aggression.

Forget it Carnos. They're Republicans.

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Steve G.

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mattkime

I agree with your characterization, but I hope Europe can step in when Republicans eventually gain power and withdraw support from Ukraine.

It's right on their doorstep (!!) and the Europeans appear to be doing a whole lot less than the U.S. to counter Putin.

Did they do anything 85 years ago? Did anyone? Maybe the U.S. learned something about stepping up, but it seems that most of Europe hasn't learned a thing except how to be more insular…

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Steve G.

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mattkime

I agree with your characterization, but I hope Europe can step in when Republicans eventually gain power and withdraw support from Ukraine.

It's right on their doorstep (!!) and the Europeans appear to be doing a whole lot less than the U.S. to counter Putin.

I dunno - they’re going to be putting up with a cold winter now that Putin’s shut off the gas.

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bfd

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Steve G.

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mattkime

I agree with your characterization, but I hope Europe can step in when Republicans eventually gain power and withdraw support from Ukraine.

It's right on their doorstep (!!) and the Europeans appear to be doing a whole lot less than the U.S. to counter Putin.

Did they do anything 85 years ago? Did anyone? Maybe the U.S. learned something about stepping up, but it seems that most of Europe hasn't learned a thing except how to be more insular…

Whatever you may say of Europe, do not forget that like the Germans during World War II, Russia will not just stop at Ukraine. Russia will eventually target all of Europe, and that will draw the United States in eventually.

And if that is not enough, the Russians wouldn’t simply stop at Europe. Like during the Cold War, Russia would eventually come for the rest of the world including the United States.

So you stop them now by nipping the problem in the bud. Do not be under any illusion that this is simply about Europe. NATO is not there just to simply protect Europe, it’s there to ultimately protect the United States. And the United States is by far the most powerful in terms of resources and wealth, so we have the most to lose, and we have the most to offer. Therefore we have the obligation. Our butts are on the line, not just Europe’s.

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pdq

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Steve G.

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mattkime

I agree with your characterization, but I hope Europe can step in when Republicans eventually gain power and withdraw support from Ukraine.

It's right on their doorstep (!!) and the Europeans appear to be doing a whole lot less than the U.S. to counter Putin.

I dunno - they’re going to be putting up with a cold winter now that Putin’s shut off the gas.

Europe actually has an oversupply of gas currently. Part of that is due to warmer than usual conditions, and also perhaps that Europe doesn’t have much gas storage capability. There are ships of liquid natural gas anchored off the European costs, waiting to offload their supplies.