What do you say?

EDIT: it’s not really a poll, too lazy to make one from iPhone. Just say what you think.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 06:07AM by gadje.

No.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

[www.youtube.com]

Take it down with the Jewish space lasers!!

Can we punch a hole in it and do a mid-air retrieval?

Apparently the authorities are worried about falling debris.

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Northern California Coast

Why? US has spent something like 3 or 4 billion on our own balloons. No reason to get hostile over surveillance, we do it to everyone else all the time.

Google does as well.

[youtu.be]

They are trying to figure out how depleted the US arms are due to sending so much to Ukraine. They need the info to decide on when to invade Taiwan.

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In tha 360. MRF User Map

That would be why the Philippines just authorized full access to all points. Keep Chinese attention diverted?

For those out of the loop:

Suspected Chinese spy balloon found over northern U.S.

[www.nbcnews.com]

What do the rules say? I mean, we have satellites all over the place over foreign countries all the time. Is there a height at which it becomes OK? Airspace ceiling?

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C(-)ris
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C(-)ris
What do the rules say? I mean, we have satellites all over the place over foreign countries all the time. Is there a height at which it becomes OK? Airspace ceiling?

This is my question too. My understanding is that satellites are subject of some international agreements, similar to a ship in international waters.

Also how do they maneuver this balloon? do they plan to steer it to go where they want or let it drift and hope they get lucky?

today..the balloon shot down the trip

Antony Blinken, the US Secretary of State, has postponed his visit to China after a spy balloon was detected flying over the continental United States.

Mr Blinken, who had been due to head to Beijing within days, did not want the incident to dominate his meetings with the Chinese, US officials said.

“Under these conditions it would not be constructive to travel at this time," a senior State Department officials told reporters. "This is the first time this has happened on the eve of a planned Secretary of State visit to the PRC (People's Republic of China). "This issue would have significantly narrowed the agenda of what we were able to discuss in a way that would have not been constructive."

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Steve G.
today..the balloon shot down the trip

Antony Blinken, the US Secretary of State, has postponed his visit to China after a spy balloon was detected flying over the continental United States.

Mr Blinken, who had been due to head to Beijing within days, did not want the incident to dominate his meetings with the Chinese, US officials said.

“Under these conditions it would not be constructive to travel at this time," a senior State Department officials told reporters. "This is the first time this has happened on the eve of a planned Secretary of State visit to the PRC (People's Republic of China). "This issue would have significantly narrowed the agenda of what we were able to discuss in a way that would have not been constructive."

State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

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gadje
State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

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hal

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gadje
State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

We're losing treasures like Jeff Beck and sweethearts like Cindy Williams, Irene Cara and this guy keeps going.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 12:47PM by vision63.

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vision63

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hal

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gadje
State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

We're losing treasures like Jeff Beck and sweethearts like Cindy Williams, Irene Cara and this guy keeps going.

such a waste of life

I hear it's powered by gas stoves!

Rep. James Comer blasts Biden on Chinese balloon, speculates if it could be ‘bioweapons’
[thehill.com]
“Is it bioweapons in that balloon? Did that balloon take off from Wuhan?” Comer said, referring to the Chinese city where the COVID-19 virus was first discovered. “We don’t know anything about that balloon.”

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hal

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vision63

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hal

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gadje
State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

We're losing treasures like Jeff Beck and sweethearts like Cindy Williams, Irene Cara and this guy keeps going.

such a waste of life

Waste of Life Jr. wants Montanans to shoot it down themselves.

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Lux Interior

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hal

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vision63

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hal

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gadje
State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

We're losing treasures like Jeff Beck and sweethearts like Cindy Williams, Irene Cara and this guy keeps going.

such a waste of life

Waste of Life Jr. wants Montanans to shoot it down themselves.

wait until he hears about satellites

Why would Biden want to shoot down his own balloon?

Does anyone seriously think it's actually a spy baloon? Seriously? Who spys with giant white balloons? Phileas Fogg?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 02:34PM by jonny.

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Mr645
Why would Biden want to shoot down his own balloon?

This is the best example of GQP.

The U.S. military thinks that it is probably a Chinese spy balloon and they aren't happy about it.

[www.reuters.com]

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e pluribus unum

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gadje

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Mr645
Why would Biden want to shoot down his own balloon?

This is the best example of GQP.

The Chinese have said that it's their weather balloon - what's with the kneejerk paranoia?

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hal

The Chinese have said that it's their weather balloon - what's with the kneejerk paranoia?

you're just asking this now?

from twitter

House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer to Fox News: "My concern is that the federal government doesn't know what's in that balloon. Is that bioweapons in that balloon? Did that balloon take off from Wuhan?"

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hal

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gadje
State department acting like adults. I am curious how the previous administration would react to something like this.

Why doesn't he do it himself, he's apparently still president and in control of the military.

[www.youtube.com]

Although nobody asked about how he can be running for a third term.

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hal
from twitter

House Oversight Committee Chair James Comer to Fox News: "My concern is that the federal government doesn't know what's in that balloon. Is that bioweapons in that balloon? Did that balloon take off from Wuhan?"

Imitating Tucker Carlson, "just asking questions".

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e pluribus unum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/03/2023 03:21PM by Ted King.

Seems like there should be a way to disable the electronics without destroying it. Or maybe that's already happened?

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Northern California Coast

A Chinese variant of Balloon Boy.

I like the poke a hole and capture idea best so far.
==

For those out of the loop:

Thank you. Until your link, the hole discussion was over my head.



The Chinese have said that it's their weather balloon - what's with the kneejerk paranoia?


Well, it's not like the Chinese Govt. can't be trusted.

And one man's knee jerk paranoia is another man's abundance of caution.



“We acted immediately to protect against the collection of sensitive information.”


I'd be interested to know what they did.

They could tell me, but then...

At 60,000' it still feels to me like 'our airspace', not unlike Forumites who feel it's ok to shoot down a personal drone flying over their property.

But discretion (and diplomacy) being the better part, etc.

Still, I like the idea of a single bullet hole rendering the balloon earth-bound where we could recover it and return it to the Chinese.

Or maybe a military grade drone constructed to look like a high flying bird way up in the sky, tearing a slight rip in the balloon.

Sort of a force nature.

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C(-)ris
What do the rules say? I mean, we have satellites all over the place over foreign countries all the time. Is there a height at which it becomes OK? Airspace ceiling?

Op-ed | Where does space begin? The decades-long legal mission to find the border between air and space

[spacenews.com]

"A distance rule, using a simple, fixed upper altitude boundary. Australia, Denmark and Kazakhstan, for example, take the position that airspace ends at 100 kilometers above sea level. Some other countries have followed this approach. In 2017, the chairman of the U.N. space law working group (perhaps to break the current deadlock) supported this approach “as an official position.”

The Von Kármán Line – treating airspace as ending (and space beginning) at the point where it is impossible to fly an aircraft – an attractive approach in theory, but subject to changes whenever technology itself changes. The line was recently revisited in an important new study by astrophysicist Jonathan C. McDowell of the Harvard–Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics. He observed that, while some have said that 100 kilometers is the “line,” the U.S. Air Force awards astronaut wings to any pilot who has gone above 80 kilometers, apparently on the basis that aircraft that fly above that altitude (such as the rocket-powered Bell X-15) have no aerodynamic control.

Orbiting line. McDowell notes that, under this view, airspace ends (and outer space begins) at the lowest perigee of an orbiting satellite – perhaps as high as 160 kilometers, but arguably lower; because a satellite with an elliptical orbit can sustain a perigee of 100 kilometers for long periods, whereas a satellite with a circular orbit can operate at 125 kilometers."

It's actually a balloon just following earths rotational axis but does carry a message:

Look. The balloon is from Canada. It’s spraying MAGA neutralizer. By this time tomorrow all those red hats will be allergic to guns.
You’re welcome, America.

Some good info here. TL/DR for the "just shoot it down" folks: Trying to shoot and hit a basically stationary target from a jet fighter- not easy. Won't necessarily come right down if shot.
[www.businessinsider.com]
(Not sure how you would go about disabling the electronics... this thing is flying at 60,000 feet; a helicopter can hover up to about 10,500 feet. Per quick research only an F-22 Raptor could fly that high.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2023 01:03AM by Black.

[www.theonion.com]

sent by a friend

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e pluribus unum



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2023 08:31AM by Ted King.

Ok, I get it, the DoD feels it's a greater risk to shoot it down and have the 35' metal structure fall somewhere vs. any information it gathers is likely already known from spy satellites.

My real question is wh was this not shot down 10/20/30 miles off shore? Why did we not detects it and deal with it before it reached the US mainland?

Now there are two of these Chinese weather balloons it seems. Are the Chinese assisting the USA to predict weather patterns affecting the nation?

The flaw in the DOD's reason for not shooting it down is 'the structure might fall and cause damage' while it was over Montana. You could shoot down Rhode Island over Montana and not hit anybody.

Other than that little lie, I'm sure there's a reason for taking the actions they have.

We'll find out eventually. But for now it's like a slap fight between 2 fifth graders.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2023 11:50AM by Steve G..

The Pentagon says the balloon, which is carrying sensors and surveillance equipment, is maneuverable and has shown it can change course. It has loitered over sensitive areas of Montana where nuclear warheads are siloed, leading the military to take actions to prevent it from collecting intelligence.-Associated Press

FAA halts departures and restricts airspace on Carolina coast for "national security effort"

The Federal Aviation Administration has issued a ground stop for three airports in the Carolinas as a suspected Chinese spy balloon drifts through the area, a spokesperson confirmed in a statement.

The administration also restricted airspace near Myrtle Beach between 12:45 p.m. and 2:45 p.m. ET. for "national defense airspace.”

The affected airports are in Wilmington, North Carolina; Charleston, South Carolina; and Myrtle Beach, South Carolina.

“The FAA has paused departures to Wilmington (ILM), Myrtle Beach International (MYR) and Charleston International (CHS) airports to support the Department of Defense in a national security effort,” according to the statement from the FAA.

During a ground stop, all aircraft that meet specific criteria must stay on the ground.

CNN

TV Speculation is that the balloon will be shot down over the ocean.

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Northern California Coast



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/04/2023 01:31PM by steve....

Done, according to AP News.

US downs Chinese balloon over ocean, moves to recover debris

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Northern California Coast

George Santos says the F-22 raptor he used to down the balloon flies much better than th e F-4 Phantom that he flew as an ace in the Korean war.

My first thought upon hearing of the balloon was indeed "Bioweapon spreader?". Or a dry test-run for same? Those are questions, not declarations.

Upon seeing better photos of it, the questions became "What are those maybe solar but also possibly antenna arrays for? What information can be gleaned by an antenna at 60,000 feet that can't be gotten from a satellite much higher up?".

Not shooting it down over land because "It might fall and hit somebody" was an obvious BS cover story, particularly while it was over Montana. My guess is that the real reason they didn't want to shoot it down over land was because aside from not knowing exactly what it was doing or what sort of information it was collecting, there was also no way to know what sort of nasty failsafes or self-destruct devices it might be equipped with, anything from simple explosives to bioweapons to a small nuclear device.

Raging paranoia or a reasonable and prudent level of caution on mine and the DoD's part? I guess we'll see one way or the other when it has been recovered, analyzed and the findings made public.

Until then, I'm reminded of two things my Vietnam Veteran stepfather was fond of saying:

"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean there aren't people out to get you."

"Some days I wonder if I'm just paranoid, but then stuff happens and I'm scared @#$%less I'm not paranoid enough!"

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Thrift Store Scott
Not shooting it down over land because "It might fall and hit somebody" was an obvious BS cover story, particularly while it was over Montana.

My thoughts that the other issue with doing it over Montana or any land is "Who's land will it land on" and will there be an issue trying to recover the wreckage, some land owner trying to sell it to the highest bidder, etc.

So we finally shot it down because if we shot it down over Montana, too great of a chance it could have landed on a person. ok, let's go with that