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Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: timg
Date: November 07, 2023 12:21PM
Not a surprise. they did everything they could to make the trial into a circus.



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Ca Bob
Date: November 07, 2023 12:54PM
My guess is that the judge will start fining the lawyers and will maybe renew fining Trump, but at a higher rate. I wonder whether the lawyer's comments where she calls the NY Attorney General stupid, would also fall under the gag order and be worthy of a contempt fine.

I think it's fair to say that these people are scum.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: November 07, 2023 12:57PM
Trump's lawyers will more likely request a "Bad court thingy."
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: timg
Date: November 07, 2023 01:20PM
Quote
Lux Interior
Trump's lawyers will more likely request a "Bad court thingy."

Yes, and they will request it from a "bad court".



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 07, 2023 01:24PM
Trump team poops on table.
Trump team: "Your honor, we need to declare a mistrial because there's poop on the table."
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Mr645
Date: November 07, 2023 01:52PM
From many legal experts, seems reasonable. The civil defraud case in NY is a case with no victim, no one was defrauded



Biden/Putin 2024
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: timg
Date: November 07, 2023 01:55PM
Quote
Mr645
From many legal experts, seems reasonable. The civil defraud case in NY is a case with no victim, no one was defrauded

Thanks for repeating one of Trump's talking points.

You're doing a great job. Sorry you didn't have any mass shootings to report on in Chicago today.



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 07, 2023 02:15PM
thought they'd ask for a change of venue to Moron Loco or Mockba.



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: pdq
Date: November 07, 2023 02:18PM
Quote
Acer
Trump team poops on table.
Trump team: "Your honor, we need to declare a mistrial because there's poop on the table."

ftw smiley
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: kj
Date: November 07, 2023 02:34PM
Quote
Mr645
From many legal experts, seems reasonable. The civil defraud case in NY is a case with no victim, no one was defrauded

Yeah, that is literally nonsensical as far as I can tell. What's your reasoning? I can think of some possible reasoning but its so easy to refute, I can't believe you couldn't do the same.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 07, 2023 02:37PM
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: pdq
Date: November 07, 2023 03:10PM
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

It’s a wingnut (and Trump) talking point.

FWIW, the state had a banking expert testify that Trump ducked ~$168M in interest payments by falsely inflating his net worth -

Quote

McCarty calculated the difference in interest payments that Trump might have paid with a commercial real estate loan that would have had a much higher interest rate than the rate he obtained by personally guaranteeing the loans on the basis of financial statements that inflated his net worth.

Trump’s attorney Chris Kise argued repeatedly in objections that the expert should not be permitted to suggest what loan rate Trump Org. could have gotten because no trial evidence has shown the lenders would have changed the loan terms if they knew Trump’s net worth was inflated based on the asset valuation in his financial statements.

RollingEyesSmiley5

This is a guy that all the major banks in NY stopped lending to because he had declared bankruptcy and burned them so many times in the past. He just went to banks outside of NY and lied his ass off about how much he was worth and “personally guaranteed” the loans based on that.

Yeah, lying to banks for a loan is not really lying; or as Homer Simpson put it:

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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Fritz
Date: November 07, 2023 03:18PM
$168M! rounding error.
That would barely keep one in biG Macs for a century.

"This is a [ ] that all the major banks in NY stopped lending to because [ ] had declared bankruptcy and burned them so many times in the past."

they were prejudiced against [ ] coz [ ] the pres of the Liars Club.
and, let's face it, they were all idiots.

man, I'd love to see a fire sale of [ ] NYC props.
or a wrecking ball.



!#$@@$#!

What if the hokey pokey really is what it’s all about?

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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Mr645
Date: November 07, 2023 03:24PM
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

Taxable value, the assessed value by the county and a lender appraisal are two different things. Every large commercial property has lawyers that fight for the lowest taxable value with the county and also battle for the maximum lender appraisal they can get. This happens thousands of times in every major county in America.
Even my home, taxable value and retail value are far from the same. I bet your home is the same way



Biden/Putin 2024
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Mr645
Date: November 07, 2023 03:25PM
And federal investigations determined Trumps tax returns were correct and legal. Every lender would have required tax returns on collateral as well as dome a appraisal on their own



Biden/Putin 2024
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: November 07, 2023 03:35PM
Quote
Mr645
Even my home, taxable value and retail value are far from the same. I bet your home is the same way

Are either of those two figures set solely by your declarations?
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Filliam H. Muffman
Date: November 07, 2023 03:52PM
Your honor, we are incompetent and have a lying fool for a client. The prosecutor has taken advantage of this situation and we request a mistrial



In tha 360. MRF User Map
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: AllGold
Date: November 07, 2023 04:38PM
Quote
Mr645
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

Taxable value, the assessed value by the county and a lender appraisal ... blah, blah, blah...

The court has already ruled Trump is guilty of fraud by doing what you describe. The arguments now are only to determine the amount of penalty.

[But you probably already knew that and are just saying what Trump is saying because you want to marry him.]
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 07, 2023 04:41PM
Quote
Mr645
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

Taxable value, the assessed value by the county and a lender appraisal are two different things. Every large commercial property has lawyers that fight for the lowest taxable value with the county and also battle for the maximum lender appraisal they can get. This happens thousands of times in every major county in America.
Even my home, taxable value and retail value are far from the same. I bet your home is the same way

I've never heard of this. I literally received the paperwork here in Texas that mandates an annual update to the valuation of my property for accurate taxation purposes.

The only exception I've ever heard was Proposition 13 in CA where homeowners taxable value was time-locked.

If your property valuation ONLY changes when a home is sold, it's a terrible loophole, and you are almost surely underpaying your taxes. Reminder that property taxes like this was written into the Constitution, before you start whining about this.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: anonymouse1
Date: November 07, 2023 04:43PM
Name three. If you can. I'll wait.

Quote
Mr645
From many legal experts, seems reasonable. The civil defraud case in NY is a case with no victim, no one was defrauded
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: samintx
Date: November 07, 2023 04:51PM
[quote:=timg]
Not a surprise. they did everything they could to make the trial into a circus.[/quote]

Didn’t you hear one lawyer say the best he had seen in 30 yearssmiley-laughing001



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2023 04:53PM by samintx.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: jonny
Date: November 07, 2023 04:55PM
Quote
AllGold
Quote
Mr645
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

Taxable value, the assessed value by the county and a lender appraisal ... blah, blah, blah...

The court has already ruled Trump is guilty of fraud by doing what you describe. The arguments now are only to determine the amount of penalty.

[But you probably already knew that and are just saying what Trump is saying because you want to marry him.]

Tee hee.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: timg
Date: November 07, 2023 05:16PM
Quote
samintx
[quote:=timg]
Not a surprise. they did everything they could to make the trial into a circus.

Didn’t you hear one lawyer say the best he had seen in 30 yearssmiley-laughing001[/quote]

I missed that. was he talking about circuses? smiling smiley



Skill without imagination is craftsmanship. Imagination without skill is Modern Art.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: kj
Date: November 07, 2023 05:29PM
Quote
sekker
Quote
Mr645
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

Taxable value, the assessed value by the county and a lender appraisal are two different things. Every large commercial property has lawyers that fight for the lowest taxable value with the county and also battle for the maximum lender appraisal they can get. This happens thousands of times in every major county in America.
Even my home, taxable value and retail value are far from the same. I bet your home is the same way

I've never heard of this. I literally received the paperwork here in Texas that mandates an annual update to the valuation of my property for accurate taxation purposes.

The only exception I've ever heard was Proposition 13 in CA where homeowners taxable value was time-locked.

If your property valuation ONLY changes when a home is sold, it's a terrible loophole, and you are almost surely underpaying your taxes. Reminder that property taxes like this was written into the Constitution, before you start whining about this.

Actually, in both states I've owned a house Mr 645 is correct. Our property taxes are based on the "Ada County Assessors Office" numbers. They are way lower than what houses sell for. Same in Washington state. I don't think anyone knows why, but I don't know why anyone would complain either.

Does that apply to Trump's case? I don't know. Is the court using the Tax Assessors estimate and comparing that to what his property was worth on the market?
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: kj
Date: November 07, 2023 05:36PM
Uh oh, 15 sec. of googling:

[www.cnn.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2023 05:38PM by kj.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: btfc
Date: November 07, 2023 07:13PM
“ Does that apply to Trump's case? “

It is only a small sliver of the case.

It’s been shown to the troll several times but it ignores actual facts.

The evidence of fraud is so overwhelming that the judge issued a summary judgement.



[www.msn.com]
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: pdq
Date: November 07, 2023 08:27PM
Quote
kj
Uh oh, 15 sec. of googling:

[www.cnn.com]

Is your home value 23 times your appraised value?

(Actually, I think Trump claims it’s a billion, billion and a half, which would be more like 50+ times appraised value.)
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: kj
Date: November 07, 2023 11:18PM
Quote
btfc
“ Does that apply to Trump's case? “

It is only a small sliver of the case.

It’s been shown to the troll several times but it ignores actual facts.

The evidence of fraud is so overwhelming that the judge issued a summary judgement.



[www.msn.com]


I don't see anything in that link that addresses what I posted. Engeron used tax assessor values to arrive at actual value, and everyone knows those are really low.

"The Troll" brought this up, but now I would like to know what the deal is. As it stands, "the Troll" looks correct to me. If it's so simple, why not just say it? I don't even need a link (but it wouldn't hurt).
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: btfc
Date: November 08, 2023 12:50AM
“ It is only a small sliver of the case “

Exactly what part of that needs to be explained?

The value of Mar a Lago is NOT what the case is about; it is incidental.

The link I posted explains what the CASE is about, not just theTINY LITTLE SLIVER.

The evidence of fraud is so overwhelming that the judge issued a summary judgement.

“ I don't see anything in that link that addresses what I posted “

What you posted misses the point. What else do you need?

If it is a link you need, then google it.

Or, if being spoon fed is what you require:

[googlethatforyou.com]

[googlethatforyou.com]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2023 01:18AM by btfc.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: $tevie
Date: November 08, 2023 08:24AM
Here is an explanation of New York's case against Trump, including the valuation of Mar-a-Lago.
[ag.ny.gov]

Bear in mind that the question of Mar-a-Lago's worth is NOT the backbone of this case. It is a portion of the case.

"This property was valued as high as $739 million based on the false premise that it was unrestricted property and could be developed and sold for residential use, even though Mr. Trump himself signed deeds donating his residential development rights, sharply restricting changes to the property, and limiting the permissible use of the property to a social club. In reality, the club generated annual revenues of less than $25 million and should have been valued at closer to $75 million."



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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: pdq
Date: November 08, 2023 08:33AM
Quote
$tevie
Here is an explanation of New York's case against Trump, including the valuation of Mar-a-Lago.
[ag.ny.gov]

Bear in mind that the question of Mar-a-Lago's worth is NOT the backbone of this case. It is a portion of the case.

"This property was valued as high as $739 million based on the false premise that it was unrestricted property and could be developed and sold for residential use, even though Mr. Trump himself signed deeds donating his residential development rights, sharply restricting changes to the property, and limiting the permissible use of the property to a social club. In reality, the club generated annual revenues of less than $25 million and should have been valued at closer to $75 million."

Oh no. Trump (an his sons) say it’s worth over a billion dollars, and after 5 or 6 real-estate bankruptcies, they should know better than any judge what property is worth.

RollingEyesSmiley5
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 08, 2023 10:52AM
For workaday folks, our homes are appraised based on the sales of similar properties nearby. Commercial real estate is another beast. You aren't just buying a place to live, you are purchasing what is in effect an income-generating business. The appraisal considers income that the property generates. The owner of the property tracks those numbers. Therein lies the potential for fraud.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Bill in NC
Date: November 08, 2023 02:06PM
Quote
pdq
Quote
$tevie
Here is an explanation of New York's case against Trump, including the valuation of Mar-a-Lago.
[ag.ny.gov]

Bear in mind that the question of Mar-a-Lago's worth is NOT the backbone of this case. It is a portion of the case.

"This property was valued as high as $739 million based on the false premise that it was unrestricted property and could be developed and sold for residential use, even though Mr. Trump himself signed deeds donating his residential development rights, sharply restricting changes to the property, and limiting the permissible use of the property to a social club. In reality, the club generated annual revenues of less than $25 million and should have been valued at closer to $75 million."

Oh no. Trump (an his sons) say it’s worth over a billion dollars, and after 5 or 6 real-estate bankruptcies, they should know better than any judge what property is worth.

RollingEyesSmiley5

And don't forget he managed to lose a ton of money...running a casino.

Only daddy dearest's emergency infusions of cash bailed him out.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2023 02:07PM by Bill in NC.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: kj
Date: November 08, 2023 05:46PM
Quote
btfc
“ It is only a small sliver of the case “
Exactly what part of that needs to be explained?
The value of Mar a Lago is NOT what the case is about; it is incidental.
The link I posted explains what the CASE is about, not just theTINY LITTLE SLIVER.
The evidence of fraud is so overwhelming that the judge issued a summary judgement.
“ I don't see anything in that link that addresses what I posted “
What you posted misses the point. What else do you need?
If it is a link you need, then google it.
Or, if being spoon fed is what you require:
[googlethatforyou.com]
[googlethatforyou.com]

It's not a small sliver of the case because the way Engoron arrived at the value of Mar a lago is flawed. How did he arrive at the "actual" values of Trump's other properties? I don't know, but if he was as clueless about those, his judgement may be flawed. I will say I found one justification that makes sense where Trump's figures for square footage were inaccurate, resulting in a valuation that was too high. I don't know about the others, but to me Engoron's methods are suspect. That's not missing the point, that is the point.

I don't need to be spoon fed anything bud, but I've seen you require evidence from others, and yet you can't do the same. Why is that? It wasn't that tough for Stevie to come up with something.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 08, 2023 07:24PM
Quote
kj
Quote
sekker
Quote
Mr645
Quote
Fritz
no one was defrauded?
wtf?
haven't you heard the banks were defrauded and that corporations are people too.
the city was defrauded of taxes.

geez ..... why bother ...

Taxable value, the assessed value by the county and a lender appraisal are two different things. Every large commercial property has lawyers that fight for the lowest taxable value with the county and also battle for the maximum lender appraisal they can get. This happens thousands of times in every major county in America.
Even my home, taxable value and retail value are far from the same. I bet your home is the same way

I've never heard of this. I literally received the paperwork here in Texas that mandates an annual update to the valuation of my property for accurate taxation purposes.

The only exception I've ever heard was Proposition 13 in CA where homeowners taxable value was time-locked.

If your property valuation ONLY changes when a home is sold, it's a terrible loophole, and you are almost surely underpaying your taxes. Reminder that property taxes like this was written into the Constitution, before you start whining about this.

Actually, in both states I've owned a house Mr 645 is correct. Our property taxes are based on the "Ada County Assessors Office" numbers. They are way lower than what houses sell for. Same in Washington state. I don't think anyone knows why, but I don't know why anyone would complain either.

Does that apply to Trump's case? I don't know. Is the court using the Tax Assessors estimate and comparing that to what his property was worth on the market?

I looked at several states where I've lived. Maryland, Illinois, MN and TX.

Yes, the assessment and the likely market prices could be off by 20%. Not 20x.

So I stand by my view that if you are seeing a larger difference, then you are actually not fulfilling at least the spirit of the Constitution, who's authors felt that wealth tax made sense to help pay for our shared bills.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: btfc
Date: November 08, 2023 08:07PM
“ It wasn't that tough for Stevie to come up with something. “

And, it wouldn’t be that hard for YOU to come up with something for YOURSELF!

What’s your malfunction, skippy?

And quit your sniveling…
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: pdq
Date: November 09, 2023 08:04AM
The Trump company agreed with the assessors value of MAL as recently in 2020. Trump says now (and told banks when he was calculating his net worth to get favorable loan terms) that it was worth ~20 times that.

Yeah, tax assessor value is often - usually, even - less than market value. People contest it otherwise. But not one-twentieth; this is way beyond the pale, and is either tax fraud or bank fraud. It’s on valuable property, for sure, but the deed says it must remain a club, and cannot be razed and the land broken up for sale, which is what Trump&supporters are suggesting to justify the $1B figure. And the club itself doesn’t make nearly enough money to be valued at a billion dollars.

CBS:

Quote

”Mar-a-Lago is deed restricted as a private club. The deed itself is restricted, it can't be used for any other purpose, as such our office values it as we value the other private clubs in Palm Beach County," [Palm Beach assessment office spokesman] Haltermon Robinson said.

… The method the county appraiser uses for a property like Mar-a-Lago is called the income approach, which reflects the club's finances.

"For the income approach, what we normally do is we request financial statements from individual businesses, and request income and expenses, so that we can kind of figure out what income we could use to capitalize the value," Haltermon Robinson said.

Adds Eli Beracha, the director of Florida International University's Hollo School of Real Estate:

Quote

It's not unusual to tell a bank that a property is worth more than its appraisal by the government, but the difference is rarely so vast, said Beracha.

"Usually when you speak to two well-informed parties, you do not see gaps like this in valuation," Beracha said. "If we're both experts, if we both know what we're doing, we're going to value that usually within a 10, 15, maybe 20% differential of each other, but not by thousands of percentages.

It’s not just Engoron being misinformed. People who tell you that are trying to play you.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: kj
Date: November 09, 2023 10:48AM
Quote
btfc
“ It wasn't that tough for Stevie to come up with something. “

And, it wouldn’t be that hard for YOU to come up with something for YOURSELF!

What’s your malfunction, skippy?

And quit your sniveling…

Find things to support your view? I have better things to do, so no thanks.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 09, 2023 11:31AM
Judge Engoron didn’t appraise or value the properties, experts in real estate valuation testified to value.



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: btfc
Date: November 09, 2023 12:07PM
“ Find things to support your view? “

Take a little time to educate yourself, perhaps?

You know, before you post untrue things about a subject you are clearly ignorant about?

How about that, skippy?

And why are you bearing false witness about Judge Erdogon? dunno smiley

You know, the guy who has studied New York law and examined the evidence…


Instead you come here and regurgitate Trump BS spin. RollingEyesSmiley5


Get a clue.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2023 12:08PM by btfc.
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Re: Trump Laywers plan to ask for mistrial
Posted by: btfc
Date: November 09, 2023 12:26PM
Erdogon ruled that there was overwhelming evidence of fraud.


You’ve suggested that he ruled incorrectly.


Prove it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/09/2023 01:02PM by btfc.
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