…5.2% growth last quarter.

Quote

Shrugging off higher interest rates, America's consumers spent enough to help drive the economy to a brisk 5.2% annual pace from July through September, the government reported Wednesday in an upgrade from its previous estimate.

I don’t think this can be explained away as a post-pandemic bounce-back any more. But these numbers just reflect inflated dollars, right?

Actually, no. This is the “real” GDP, which is adjusted for inflation. And it reflects remarkable growth:

Quote

Private investment surged at a 10.5% annual pace, including a 6.2% increase in housing investment, which defied higher mortgage rates.

Yeah, but what about the greatest economy the world has ever seen, under the last guy? Well, he did set a record for quarterly economic growth in 2020…just after setting the record for the greatest quarterly economic contraction in history:

Overall, real GDP growth under Trump was the worst since Hoover. But you don’t have to believe me. Here are the headlines from some other sources:

GDP Growth Under Trump Was the Worst Since Hoover (Bloomberg)

GDP growth under Trump was the worst since Hoover (Financial Advisor Magazine)

yeah but eggs were $5 a dozen at some point I don't remember exactly when or for how long other than sometime between Christmas and Easter 2023 or maybe it was 2022 and it was mostly at that one store that I don't usually shop at anyway and I found them cheaper some other spot the same day but they wereneverthatexpensivewhenTrumpwaspresident.
/s

I've been able to get "sale" priced $1.50 dozen eggs every time I've gone to the store for the past two-three months at least, and the regular priced ones are $2-3 tops.

More concerning is that other essential foodstuffs that I hadn't seen as much inflation as reported by others has caught up and roughly doubled from its pre-pandemic sale prices.

It would be very interesting to know which sectors account for that 5% growth. For a long stretch over the past 30+ years that was deemed to be unattainable for the US economy due to its size and complexity.

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g=

Just because the cost of producing a product has come down does not mean the retailer is going to lower the price, it will just take the higher profit margin.

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“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late

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Ombligo
Just because the cost of producing a product has come down does not mean the retailer is going to lower the price, it will just take the higher profit margin.

this, for sure. the only place I reliably trust to give the best price is Costco, as they seem to have lowered prices on their products as their suppliers lowered their prices. I fully realize that Costco has some insane purchasing power, and they may wield such a cudgel with not so gentle a force, but they do so wield it.

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So get back to work and sweat some more
The sun will sink, and we'll get out the door
It's no good for man to work in cages
Hits the town, he drinks his wages
You're frettin', you're sweatin'
But did you notice you ain't gettin'?

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Ombligo
Just because the cost of producing a product has come down does not mean the retailer is going to lower the price, it will just take the higher profit margin.

all you have to do is see record profits being reported every quarter to know we are being gouged.

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"Defending your own life when in immediate danger to me is a basic right of each person. " Lemon Drop 11/17/2023 03:10 pm

Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008) Private citizens have the right under the Second Amendment to possess an ordinary type of weapon and use it for lawful, historically established situations such as self-defense in a home, even when there is no relationship to a local militia.

"The conclusion is thus inescapable that the history, concept, and wording of the second amendment to the Constitution of the United States, as well as its interpretation by every major commentator and court in the first half-century after its ratification, indicates that what is protected is an individual right of a private citizen to own and carry firearms in a peaceful manner." Right to Keep and Bear Arms: Report of the Subcommittee on the Constitution of the Committee on the Judiciary, United States Senate, Ninety-seventh Congress, Second Session. U.S. Government Printing Office. 1982. Digitized September 30, 2008.

From the NYSRPA v Bruen "Today, we decline to adopt that two-part approach. . . . Despite the popularity of this two-step approach, it is one step too many. Step one of the predominant framework is broadly consistent with Heller, which demands a test rooted in the Second Amendment's text, as informed by history."

No one in the real world really thinks the economy is great. 60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas. Inflation is up 17% since Biden took office

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"he is going to start WW3!!!!"

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Mr645
No one in the real world really thinks the economy is great. 60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas. Inflation is up 17% since Biden took office

I think the economy is doing just great and pdq’s oft-posted numbers support that.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Citation?

Inflation is up 44.41% since Obama took office. [www.in2013dollars.com]

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DeusxMac

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Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Citation?

Don’t need it. This is all about polarization in perception. If Nikki H were to be sworn in Jan 20, 2025 as the next President, these same downers would report Jan 21 how great the economy is under their new leader.

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Speedy

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Mr645
No one in the real world really thinks the economy is great. 60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas. Inflation is up 17% since Biden took office

I think the economy is doing just great and pdq’s oft-posted numbers support that.

Our economy is complicated. Many companies are doing great, and some are even passing along shares of the profits. Heck, there are some health care systems with record ‘net proceeds’ - so even non-profits are dong well.

And compared to the other G7 countries, China, and others - we are the envy of the world.

However, housing issues are real and have not recovered from the combination of the mortgage bubble killing construction, COVID driving WFH, and then NIMBYism raising building costs. Freakinomics just did a great piece on this.

Some prices have also not come down, as noted - for example, auto makers (AND dealers selling used cars) continue to rake in record profits.

While unemployment is low, employers are also being slow to hire (and are being pickier when they do).

My two 20 something kids are post college. They were able to find intro jobs at about $20/hour. But that doesn’t really cover their cost of living in Minneapolis, and they do not have expensive lifestyles. But I was afraid a few years ago they were going to be over-educated, so my expectation is exceeded. And I know that if they do well in their current job tracks, they will move up to something that would enable them to afford a family if they wanted to.

As I said, I think the current economy is complicated.

Mr645,

People struggle to pay rent, buy food, pay for childcare and tons of other stuff regardless of whether the economy is good, bad, awesome, mediocre, etc. Always.

Robert

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Robert M
Mr645,

People struggle to pay rent, buy food, pay for childcare and tons of other stuff regardless of whether the economy is good, bad, awesome, mediocre, etc. Always.

Robert

Yes, it's a much larger problem than Biden or Trump. Much, much larger. As long as a handful of people control the rest of the population by manipulating resources and wealth, there will always be these problems. Whether it's the king, the tax man, or any of the current billionaires and their corporations.

Nothing ever changes except for the actors. The same events cycle over and over and over and over again.

BTW, Y/Y PCE continued to decrease, just as expected. Core was up 0.2% M/M, an entirely “normal” number. Total PCE was up less than 0.1%.

The expected decrease to 3.5% Y/Y is mostly due to the increases 6-12 months ago - ie, another lagging indicator which will progressively disappear from the numbers. The markets liked it, and are getting near all-time highs.

Apart from rents (yet another lagging indicator), inflation numbers are essentially back to normal. With a still-strong economy, it appears “soft landing” has been achieved, and only those with a political axe to grind are predicting otherwise (I found the headline of this story, titled “Stock Market Crash Alert: Mark Your Calendars for Nov. 30” amusing).

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pdq
BTW, Y/Y PCE continued to decrease, just as expected. Core was up 0.2% M/M, an entirely “normal” number. Total PCE was up less than 0.1%.

The expected decrease to 3.5% Y/Y is mostly due to the increases 6-12 months ago - ie, another lagging indicator which will progressively disappear from the numbers. The markets liked it, and are getting near all-time highs.

Apart from rents (yet another lagging indicator), inflation numbers are essentially back to normal. With a still-strong economy, it appears “soft landing” has been achieved, and only those with a political axe to grind are predicting otherwise (I found the headline of this story, titled “Stock Market Crash Alert: Mark Your Calendars for Nov. 30” amusing).

Yes, the recent numbers are very encouraging indeed.

I would add that it’s not JUST rent, but also mortgage rates are hammering new homeowners. The saving grace is that there are many locked into very LOW interest rates. Those owners are not likely to move, however.

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DeusxMac

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Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Citation?

Yep, didn’t think so. Just more of the same MAGAt BS.

“We won with poorly educated…" "I love the poorly educated!"

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DeusxMac

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DeusxMac

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Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Citation?

Yep, didn’t think so. Just more of the same MAGAt BS.

“We won with poorly educated…" "I love the poorly educated!"

From CNBC "Only 36% of those surveyed have at least $10,000 in savings, Wennes pointed out." 30 Oct 2

over 37% cannot cover next months bills if they were to lose their job and 27% have less than $1000 in the bank

"What percentage of Americans do not have a savings?
Personal Savings in the U.S.

According to a rolling representative online survey among U.S. adults by YouGov, 27 percent of Americans had some savings below $1,000 as of May 2023, while 12 percent said they had no savings at all."

Why can't liberals figure out Google?

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"he is going to start WW3!!!!"

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bfd

Quote
Robert M
Mr645,

People struggle to pay rent, buy food, pay for childcare and tons of other stuff regardless of whether the economy is good, bad, awesome, mediocre, etc. Always.

Robert

Yes, it's a much larger problem than Biden or Trump. Much, much larger. As long as a handful of people control the rest of the population by manipulating resources and wealth, there will always be these problems. Whether it's the king, the tax man, or any of the current billionaires and their corporations.

Nothing ever changes except for the actors. The same events cycle over and over and over and over again.

I prefer Trump solution, build up from the bottom, growing hourly wages and very low inflation.

---

"he is going to start WW3!!!!"

Quote
Mr645

Quote
DeusxMac

Quote
DeusxMac

Quote
Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Citation?

Yep, didn’t think so. Just more of the same MAGAt BS.

“We won with poorly educated…" "I love the poorly educated!"

From CNBC "Only 36% of those surveyed have at least $10,000 in savings, Wennes pointed out." 30 Oct 2

over 37% cannot cover next months bills if they were to lose their job and 27% have less than $1000 in the bank

"What percentage of Americans do not have a savings?
Personal Savings in the U.S.

According to a rolling representative online survey among U.S. adults by YouGov, 27 percent of Americans had some savings below $1,000 as of May 2023, while 12 percent said they had no savings at all."

Why can't liberals figure out Google?

No actual links, and there’s no “60%” in any of your sparse quotes.

Savings hit a peak during COVID due to the pause in paying back student loans and the government stimulus checks.

The inflation we see was a major and predicted outcome of the same stimulus spending.

The prior administration had very few new fiscal policies, actually, over the Obama administration outside giving a massive tax break to the wealthiest Americans (and token tax breaks for the rest of us).

Quote
sekker
If Nikki H were to be sworn in Jan 20, 2025 as the next President, these same downers would report Jan 21 how great the economy is under their new leader.

prolly wasn't meant to be funny, but I laughed hard.
shouted from the mountain tops.

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"one door closes and another window opens"
Vlad the Impailer.

"I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion."
Alexander the Great

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DeusxMac

Quote
Mr645

Quote
DeusxMac

Quote
DeusxMac

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Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Citation?

Yep, didn’t think so. Just more of the same MAGAt BS.

“We won with poorly educated…" "I love the poorly educated!"

From CNBC "Only 36% of those surveyed have at least $10,000 in savings, Wennes pointed out." 30 Oct 2

over 37% cannot cover next months bills if they were to lose their job and 27% have less than $1000 in the bank

"What percentage of Americans do not have a savings?
Personal Savings in the U.S.

According to a rolling representative online survey among U.S. adults by YouGov, 27 percent of Americans had some savings below $1,000 as of May 2023, while 12 percent said they had no savings at all."

Why can't liberals figure out Google?

No actual links, and there’s no “60%” in any of your sparse quotes.

100% minus 36% equals 64%. Is math too hard for you?

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"he is going to start WW3!!!!"

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Mr645
60% of Americans struggle to pay rent, buy food, cars and gas.

Quote
Mr645
From CNBC “Only 36% of those surveyed have $10,000 in savings.” Wennes pointed out.

Quote
Mr645
100% minus 36% equals 64%. Is math too hard for you?

ACTUAL quote! “‘However, some 36% of those surveyed have at least $10,000 in savings’, Wennes pointed out.”

[www.cnbc.com]

So you have:
1. Intentionally failed to provide a link to your quote on “data”
2. Intentionally altered the quote
3. Used your false quote to assert it contains “facts” it obviously does NOT!

Again, just more of the MAGAt BS, and “alternate facts” confabulation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2023 08:30AM by DeusxMac.

Very few 18 to 28 year olds will have $10k. A more interesting stat would be the net worth of 65 year olds. How many are going to have to scrape by only on social security.

As far as slamming Biden, compare the net worth of adults to that same cohort under Trump. Of course, if some Republicans had their way, social security would sunset every five years.

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Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.

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Mr645
I prefer Trump solution, build up from the bottom, growing hourly wages and very low inflation doing only what's good for Trump and his own ego, with a little deference to what mega donors want.

FIFY.