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Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: November 29, 2023 02:44PM
[x.com]

This is wild.

You've probably heard about the culture war against Scholastic book fairs in schools.

Part of the anti-book, anti-learning, anti-library craze.

Over supposedly inappropriate content.

Turns out, a right wing conspiracy- loving publisher is sending fake "witnesses" to school board meetings to say things like reading about a couple kissing in a Scholastic book led them to a porn addiction.

So the pearl-clutching Board bans the book. Then the right wing company gets to sell their awful stuff to kids. Instead of high quality Scholastic.

Seriously, we have lost our minds.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: gabester
Date: November 29, 2023 03:37PM
School boards need to be able to weed those sort of "paid protestors" out from actual parents and vested community members.



g=
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Ted King
Date: November 29, 2023 04:43PM
Laws should allow parents to opt out of their children being "exposed" to books that they think don't reflect their deeply held screwed up beliefs (within reasonable limits). Laws should not allow individual parent's value judgments on every book at a school to dictate what others parent's kids get "exposed" to. It's pretty evident that many states now have laws where the values of the most prudish and bigoted can dictate what other parents' children read/see.

They are convinced that it's for those other parents and their kids own good. They are protecting us all from the devil moral degeneracy that is undermining the moral fiber of the country. God will only bless America if America blesses God. One nation under God, Amen.



e pluribus unum



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2023 04:45PM by Ted King.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 29, 2023 06:03PM
Quote
gabester
School boards need to be able to weed those sort of "paid protestors" out from actual parents and vested community members.

Amen.

I think they need to be engaged, but the first question should be "which school do your children attend?" ...and away from cameras and microphones.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2023 06:03PM by mattkime.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: November 29, 2023 06:56PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
gabester
School boards need to be able to weed those sort of "paid protestors" out from actual parents and vested community members.

Amen.

I think they need to be engaged, but the first question should be "which school do your children attend?" ...and away from cameras and microphones.

The argument back is that they are taxpayers and have every right to voice their complaint/opinion/wackjob theory to their elected officials. These loons spouting off are not the issue, the spineless board members giving in to them is.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 29, 2023 07:04PM
Quote
Ombligo
These loons spouting off are not the issue, the spineless board members giving in to them is.

good point.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: November 29, 2023 07:09PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
Ombligo
These loons spouting off are not the issue, the spineless board members giving in to them is.

good point.

Yes.

The story from the "witness" is looney tunes.

The board should have just said "bless your heart" and then " next."
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: kj
Date: November 29, 2023 07:59PM
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library, so there probably needs to be a very well thought out process for choosing what belongs there, which is so complex it is hardly possible. I have no idea how that could be done, but I don't endorse deception or other similar tactics such as those described in the OP.

Or maybe it will be a mess, and we can just say "it is what it is". Probably just as effective.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Acer
Date: November 29, 2023 10:23PM
These are the same sort people who got upset 30 years ago when Mr. Rodgers suggested that "you are special just the way you are," because they thought it endorses LGBTQ+. Which it kinda does, but if Mr Rodgers thinks it's OK, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over astro-turfed pearl-clutchers crashing school board meetings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2023 10:23PM by Acer.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: mattkime
Date: November 29, 2023 10:25PM
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library, so there probably needs to be a very well thought out process for choosing what belongs there, which is so complex it is hardly possible.

Its not hard to create such a process, only hard to maintain agreement, particularly when someone has an ideological axe to grind.



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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Mr645
Date: November 30, 2023 06:01AM
Once again the media and leftists using the .1% to drive home a point for political gain. Putting politics over reasonable solutions



Biden/Putin 2024
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Speedy
Date: November 30, 2023 06:03AM
Quote
Mr645
Once again the media and leftists using the .1% to drive home a point for political gain. Putting politics over reasonable solutions

What might those reasonable solutions be?



Saint Cloud, Minnesota, where the weather is wonderful even when it isn't.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Lux Interior
Date: November 30, 2023 07:02AM
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Ombligo
Date: November 30, 2023 07:20AM
The problem isn't the books in a school library, the problem is that students aren't reading them.

I used to fill in at the school media center. My high school had 1400 students and a busy day was checking out 10 books, most days it was half that and it wasn't unusual to have none taken. Students have little to no interest in reading. I'd put the Penthouse Forums on the shelves if it would get students to start reading.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.” -- François de La Rochefoucauld

"Those who cannot accept the past are condemned to revise it." -- Geo. Mathias

The German word for contraceptive is “Schwangerschaftsverhütungsmittel”. By the time you finished saying that, it’s too late
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Spock
Date: November 30, 2023 08:26AM
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.

Agreed 100%. Anything less is censorship.



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: November 30, 2023 08:46AM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.

Agreed 100%. Anything less is censorship.

doctrinaire adjective
seeking to impose a doctrine in all circumstances without regard to practical considerations

Not all books belong in all libraries.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 30, 2023 09:18AM
We just moved here in Texas, and the local ISD has imposed a process for all school board meetings where the petitioner has to provide full context on who they are. I do not think they offer a true open microphone. Started this year.

Not sure if I like this, but it WILL put friction and context around any extremists.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: sekker
Date: November 30, 2023 09:19AM
Quote
Acer
These are the same sort people who got upset 30 years ago when Mr. Rodgers suggested that "you are special just the way you are," because they thought it endorses LGBTQ+. Which it kinda does, but if Mr Rodgers thinks it's OK, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt over astro-turfed pearl-clutchers crashing school board meetings.

Mr. Rogers was such a gentle soul. We need more of your acolytes in this polarized world!
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: dk62
Date: November 30, 2023 09:56AM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.

Agreed 100%. Anything less is censorship.

Off topic: And that was exactly my problem with the Dead Poets Society (one scene), which is why I fail to understand how that movie is so beloved.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Spock
Date: November 30, 2023 11:19AM
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.

Agreed 100%. Anything less is censorship.

doctrinaire adjective
seeking to impose a doctrine in all circumstances without regard to practical considerations

Not all books belong in all libraries.

Lux didn't say all libraries.



Comedy Central: Best news channel that isn't a news channel.

Fox News: Best comedy channel that isn't a comedy channel.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: November 30, 2023 01:17PM
School librarians are the people who should be selecting books for the libraries they direct.

Not pearl-clutching phony activists.

MAGA types dislike librarians, and in states like mine the MAGA Superintendents of Education have cut ties with the ALA.

Because they want to censor based on their own very narrow, bigoted views.

Oh, and also open the door for profit by companies that produce right wing propaganda for children.

Which is what the OP is about.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: DeusxMac
Date: November 30, 2023 01:52PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
DeusxMac
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.

Agreed 100%. Anything less is censorship.

doctrinaire adjective
seeking to impose a doctrine in all circumstances without regard to practical considerations

Not all books belong in all libraries.

Lux didn't say all libraries.

thumbs up
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: kj
Date: November 30, 2023 07:28PM
Quote
mattkime
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library, so there probably needs to be a very well thought out process for choosing what belongs there, which is so complex it is hardly possible.

Its not hard to create such a process, only hard to maintain agreement, particularly when someone has an ideological axe to grind.


Well yeah, they have a process, so not hard, but one that works?
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: kj
Date: November 30, 2023 07:41PM
Quote
Spock
Quote
Lux Interior
Quote
kj
I think we can agree that there are books that don't belong in an elementary (or perhaps any) library


All books belong in a library.

Agreed 100%. Anything less is censorship.

Yes, the "Turner Diaries" needs to be in an elementary school. And seriously, there are way worse books. Plus, libraries don't just have books, they have all kinds of media. What about the computers in libraries? No filters? No monitoring? Sorry, I can't agree with such an extremist position.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: kj
Date: November 30, 2023 07:58PM
Quote
Lemon Drop
School librarians are the people who should be selecting books for the libraries they direct.

Not pearl-clutching phony activists.

MAGA types dislike librarians, and in states like mine the MAGA Superintendents of Education have cut ties with the ALA.

Because they want to censor based on their own very narrow, bigoted views.

Oh, and also open the door for profit by companies that produce right wing propaganda for children.

Which is what the OP is about.

Literally everyone wants to decide how children are indoctrinated. I think it's better to duke it out then let one small biased group do whatever they like. No one is ever going to let librarians pick whatever they want.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: Lemon Drop
Date: December 01, 2023 09:22AM
Quote
kj
Quote
Lemon Drop
School librarians are the people who should be selecting books for the libraries they direct.

Not pearl-clutching phony activists.

MAGA types dislike librarians, and in states like mine the MAGA Superintendents of Education have cut ties with the ALA.

Because they want to censor based on their own very narrow, bigoted views.

Oh, and also open the door for profit by companies that produce right wing propaganda for children.

Which is what the OP is about.

Literally everyone wants to decide how children are indoctrinated. I think it's better to duke it out then let one small biased group do whatever they like. No one is ever going to let librarians pick whatever they want.

Actually we have done so for many decades. They don't pick "whatever they want," they are highly trained to know what is age appropriate.


It's very important for young people who are not straight, white, Christian and from "Mom and Dad " homes to see themselves reflected in literature. We were doing fine with that, until the bigoted reactionaries decided they know better. They are wrong.

This is a very small group of complainers organizing to cause trouble at libraries. The targets are nearly always books with topics or authors from the LGBTQ community, or the Black community.

These people are not subtle. They also do not represent most Americans, who oppose censorship.

Their actions are contrary to American values of free speech, inclusion and learning for all.

[www.ala.org]
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: kj
Date: December 01, 2023 01:24PM
I worked in schools for years, and I think most parents become frustrated with some of the agendas pushed in schools. Almost no one can get behind a lot of the gender stuff, etc. Some people don't care enough to complain, but I don't see consensus there at all. And there is a fair amount of just plain fringe stuff that happens in schools (to be fair, it may not originate in the library).

It's more than just age-appropriateness, its values. You can just decide your values are the right ones, but that isn't how it works, and it isn't how it should work. I personally got very sick of people pushing their particular values in school. I don't care what they were, it was usually unnecessary, and often relentless.

All of this is somewhat beside the point of the particular group you are referring to, but this group is not the only fringe group who would like to indoctrinate children. All of them need to back off.
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Re: Never in history have the book banners been the good guys
Posted by: N-OS X-tasy!
Date: December 01, 2023 03:34PM
Quote
Mr645
Once again the media and leftists using the .1% to drive home a point for political gain. Putting politics over reasonable solutions

FTFY.



It is what it is.
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